SJM at the 2025 International Open

Island Drive said:
To me, most of the guys are now just, payin the rent, enjoying life in your youth in their section of the planet.
$1,000,000 first prize event need to happen now, not more 20-50K.
MR give us some action.
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You would have Matchroom pay out prize money that in no way reflects their revenue? Thankfully, they are not stupid enough to do that.

The last time an event producer thought they could grow the game solely by paying our prize money that was completely irreconcilable with revenue was when Kevin Trudeau tried his hand with the IPT. The result was that his tour collapsed under its own weight and folded in year one.

For any event producer, prize money growth must track revenue growth. Paying out prize money that does not is courting disaster.
 
True, but life of a pool player has not changed that much comparatively, there's just more workin' it world wide.
How many nine ball events does MR host each year?
 
Island Drive said:
True, but life of a pool player has not changed that much comparatively, there's just more workin' it world wide.
How many nine ball events does MR host each year?
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Seven. The Matchroom produced majors are UK Open, European Open, World 9ball, Florida Open, US Open 9ball, Hanoi Open, Philippines Open.

FYI, nearly all the top players have good cue deals and other solid sponsorships that probably cover their participation expenses for the year. I suspect, therefore, that the majority of them end up clearing every bit of their AZB prize money. Many of them also give lessons and have paid appearances. No, they can't afford to live on Park Avenue, but they are not hurting either. They will not make big money until the game grows enough to support it, and that day is still a way off.

As for the money, not one of the first 15 US Open 9ball winners won more than $10,000, with the average at about $6,000. Now, the winner gets $100,000. The old-timers had it awfully tough, too.
 
sjm said:
Thanks for that. So, about seven times as many matches at Derby City in the same ten-day stretch. Wow!
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Well, don't forget that the International had the Semi-Pro 9-Ball and the two junior events running as well. And lots of the matches at the DCC (as well as in the International "Pro" 9-Ball) are amateur vs. amateur rather than pro matches.
 
AtLarge said:
Well, don't forget that the International had the Semi-Pro 9-Ball and the two junior events running as well. And lots of the matches at the DCC (as well as in the International "Pro" 9-Ball) are amateur vs. amateur rather than pro matches.
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Yes, but from an entertainment standpoint, every single session in all four disciplines at the Derby has several matchups between two pros (let's say that means Fargo 725+). Lest we forget, the absence of seeding combined with the absence of a loser's bracket at the Derby means that some of the giants draw each other in the first rounds in every discipline, so there is always some very high-level pool to watch. At the International, the 650 9ball event and the pro 9ball event alternated sessions so there were several sessions not featuring even one match I considered worth watching.
 
sjm said:
Seven. The Matchroom produced majors are UK Open, European Open, World 9ball, Florida Open, US Open 9ball, Hanoi Open, Philippines Open.

FYI, nearly all the top players have good cue deals and other solid sponsorships that probably cover their participation expenses for the year. I suspect, therefore, that the majority of them end up clearing every bit of their AZB prize money. Many of them also give lessons and have paid appearances. No, they can't afford to live on Park Avenue, but they are not hurting either. They will not make big money until the game grows enough to support it, and that day is still a way off.

As for the money, not one of the first 15 US Open 9ball winners won more than $10,000, with the average at about $6,000. Now, the winner gets $100,000. The old-timers had it awfully tough, too.
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Doesn't feel like Any Time Soon.

Get rid of the FL open and combine that with the 2026 TX US Open 8 ball event.
Don't be top heavy for the win.... Pay down better.
Like the Gorst/Kaci Final.
$350,000 1st then 100K 2nd.
I'd pay more to the lower players.
Somthin' like this.
250/150/100/$75,000 and down.
Any pro would be happy finishing in the top four.
 
Island Drive said:
Doesn't feel like Any Time Soon.

Get rid of the FL open and combine that with the 2026 TX US Open 8 ball event.
Don't be top heavy for the win.... Pay down better.
Like the Gorst/Kaci Final.
$350,000 1st then 100K 2nd.
I'd pay more to the lower players.
Somthin' like this.
250/150/100/$75,000 and down.
Any pro would be happy finishing in the top four.
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For starters, the WNT Florida Open was the best new event in 2025. Second, Orlando has proven a great city for pro pool, hosting what I believe was the best ever Mosconi Cup in 2024 as well as the superb 2025 Florida Open.

The World 9ball pays 250/100/50/25, so 550K to the top 8. Your structure of 250/150/100/75 would pay 900K to the top 8, and yet you say you don't want the payout to be top heavy. You also want to pay more to the lower finishers, so in the end, you are probably doubling the total payout. Where exactly is all this extra money coming from?
 
sjm said:
For starters, the WNT Florida Open was the best new event in 2025. Second, Orlando has proven a great city for pro pool, hosting what I believe was the best ever Mosconi Cup in 2024 as well as the superb 2025 Florida Open.

The World 9ball pays 250/100/50/25, so 550K to the top 8. Your structure of 250/150/100/75 would pay 900K to the top 8, and yet you say you don't want the payout to be top heavy. You also want to pay more to the lower finishers, so in the end, you are probably doubling the total payout. Where exactly is all this extra money coming from?
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I just posted this in AZB Hall of Fame thread:
dquarasr

Thread 'SJM in the AZB HOF? Should be!!'

I am a casual consumer of Professional pool. I attended the Florida Open in Orlando earlier this year.

I reached out to Stu, whom I met early in the tournament at the venue, if only briefly. He was and I am sure always is friendly, extremely knowledgeable, enthusiastic, and a true ambassador of the sport. I went away from our short encounter impressed by him.

Combine that with his love of the game and his wonderful prolific spot-on contributions to discussions here on AZB Forums over many years, I submit @sjm belongs in the AZB HOF if he is not already considered so.

- Doug
  • Like
Thanks are due to Stu!
 
dquarasr said:
I just posted this in AZB Hall of Fame thread:
dquarasr

Thread 'SJM in the AZB HOF? Should be!!'

I am a casual consumer of Professional pool. I attended the Florida Open in Orlando earlier this year.

I reached out to Stu, whom I met early in the tournament at the venue, if only briefly. He was and I am sure always is friendly, extremely knowledgeable, enthusiastic, and a true ambassador of the sport. I went away from our short encounter impressed by him.

Combine that with his love of the game and his wonderful prolific spot-on contributions to discussions here on AZB Forums over many years, I submit @sjm belongs in the AZB HOF if he is not already considered so.

- Doug
  • Like
Thanks are due to Stu!
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Thanks for the generous thought, but I think the AZB Hall of Fame is for deceased members of the forum.
 
sjm said:
For starters, the WNT Florida Open was the best new event in 2025. Second, Orlando has proven a great city for pro pool, hosting what I believe was the best ever Mosconi Cup in 2024 as well as the superb 2025 Florida Open.

The World 9ball pays 250/100/50/25, so 550K to the top 8. Your structure of 250/150/100/75 would pay 900K to the top 8, and yet you say you don't want the payout to be top heavy. You also want to pay more to the lower finishers, so in the end, you are probably doubling the total payout. Where exactly is all this extra money coming from?
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I think the middle of the US is better for all, ands probably why MR and TX have been mentioned. Move it.
Seems like there are not many events worldwide, equivalent of the Open.
I'd like to see the best Chinese players show up, all of em like the pinoys, is the Asian money better? I've heard it was.
Yeah Stu, Saudi money was different, but I don't see That Dollar situation happening with Any other events.
How longs it been since the first MR US Open?
Been many yrs now.
I'm itcin' for more Finals like Kaci/Gorst.
 
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JAM said:
Interestingly, three SMEs in the pool world—Mike Panozzo, Phil Capelle, and Pat Fleming—praised Mike Sigel’s commentary.
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Would those same three people happen to consider themselves personal acquaintances of Mike? 😜

As I watched some of the events the YouTube chat was extremely annoyed by his flavor of commentary. And I’m in a few Facebook messenger chats with notable pool fans and all they could talk about was how annoying Sigel’s commentary was. And you also could see the same echoed across Social Media.

I want to pay the man his dues and give his legacy respect. But he earned that on the table, not in the commentary booth. There are people out there significantly more skilled at the most important aspect of commentary… keeping the audience engaged.
 
Island Drive said:
Then tone the money down & spread it around more, but have less big events and more Major events.
Seems like there are not many events worldwide, equivalent of the Open.
I'd like to see the best Chinese players show up, all of em like the pinoys, is the Asian money better? I've heard it was.
Yeah Stu, Saudi money was different, but I don't see That Dollar situation happening with Any other events.
How longs it been since the first MR US Open?
Been many yrs now.
I'm itcin' for more Finals like Kaci/Gorst.
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the chinese money is better atm, drawing most of the mainland chinese and some of the taiwan chinese to their tournaments. it is what it is.

as for the US open, the prize money was raised this year and yapp won 100k first prize. there are a couple events paying similar at the moment, aside from the world 9b champs. those are the qatar open and predator 10b/8b, with the latter being 96 player (or something like that) invitational.

with some perspective, pool is in a fairly good place now. cost of living isn't, obviously. but that's the same for many careers, not just pool. buying a car or a house or paying rent today can't be compared to the 1960's..
 
sjm said:
Yes, but from an entertainment standpoint, every single session in all four disciplines at the Derby has several matchups between two pros (let's say that means Fargo 725+). Lest we forget, the absence of seeding combined with the absence of a loser's bracket at the Derby means that some of the giants draw each other in the first rounds in every discipline, so there is always some very high-level pool to watch. At the International, the 650 9ball event and the pro 9ball event alternated sessions so there were several sessions not featuring even one match I considered worth watching.
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All true, but my comment referred to your statement: "about seven times as many matches at Derby City in the same ten-day stretch." When you add in the ≤650s and the juniors at the International, it makes it only about 3½ times as many at the DCC (if your 2,500 at DCC was close). Much, much closer! ;)
 
skogstokig said:
the chinese money is better atm, drawing most of the mainland chinese and some of the taiwan chinese to their tournaments. it is what it is.

as for the US open, the prize money was raised this year and yapp won 100k first prize. there are a couple events paying similar at the moment, aside from the world 9b champs. those are the qatar open and predator 10b/8b, with the latter being 96 player (or something like that) invitational.

with some perspective, pool is in a fairly good place now. cost of living isn't, obviously. but that's the same for many careers, not just pool. buying a car or a house or paying rent today can't be compared to the 1960's..
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$15,000 in 1980 feels like 40K now. Snicker bar in the 80's was Maybe 50cents, now they are smaller and want $2.39
 
MattPoland said:
Would those same three people happen to consider themselves personal acquaintances of Mike? 😜

As I watched some of the events the YouTube chat was extremely annoyed by his flavor of commentary. And I’m in a few Facebook messenger chats with notable pool fans and all they could talk about was how annoying Sigel’s commentary was. And you also could see the same echoed across Social Media.

I want to pay the man his dues and give his legacy respect. But he earned that on the table, not in the commentary booth. There are people out there significantly more skilled at the most important aspect of commentary… keeping the audience engaged.
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I know I'm in the minority here, but I thoroughly enjoyed Sigel's commentary. Not on the level of Billy / Grady / Danny D / Buddy, but I'd much rather hear his ongoing analysis than Mark's or JJ's. Those two are just too bland for my taste, and JJ's nervous tic of a laugh really gets on my nerves.
 
AtLarge said:
All true, but my comment referred to your statement: "about seven times as many matches at Derby City in the same ten-day stretch." When you add in the ≤650s and the juniors at the International, it makes it only about 3½ times as many at the DCC (if your 2,500 at DCC was close). Much, much closer! ;)
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Agreed.
 
skogstokig said:
with some perspective, pool is in a fairly good place now. cost of living isn't, obviously. but that's the same for many careers, not just pool. buying a car or a house or paying rent today can't be compared to the 1960's..
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Well said. Pool can only pay out according to the revenue it produces. One cannot say that pro players, as a group, are entitled to more compensation than they create, but times have improved for them and, even compared to a couple of years ago, total added money in the sport and sponsorship money have skyrocketed.
 
Poolmanis said:
Eurotour have not been proper pro event in long time. Money is pathetic. Affects nothing. It is just to WPA and European rankings...
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The Mixed Doubles is paying out $100,000 for this one event alone. I don't know the total prize money for this event but it's definitely not pathetic.
 
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