SJM Slant on the 2016 Mosconi Cup

None of this Matters

The problem is the lack of world class players and the fact with pool in America going to 7ft tables and with no pro tour it will NEVER get better. I don't care who the coach is. Chuck Noll was a fantastic coach. BUT Mean Joe Green, John Stallwarth, Lynn Swan, Terry Bradshaw and L. C. Greenwood are what made the Steelers winners.

There are 200 Pinos that can hang with anybody in America except Shane there are 50 Taiwanese that can, there are 50 Chinese that can. Probably 50 Euro's that are better than anybody on the American team except Shane and he dogs it every year. Facing this reality who gives a damn who the coach is. The coach doesn't play. Face it, we DO SUCK.
 
dnschmidt said:
The problem is the lack of world class players and the fact with pool in America going to 7ft tables and with no pro tour it will NEVER get better. I don't care who the coach is. Chuck Noll was a fantastic coach. BUT Mean Joe Green, John Stallwarth, Lynn Swan, Terry Bradshaw and L. C. Greenwood are what made the Steelers winners.

There are 200 Pinos that can hang with anybody in America except Shane there are 50 Taiwanese that can, there are 50 Chinese that can. Probably 50 Euro's that are better than anybody on the American team except Shane and he dogs it every year. Facing this reality who gives a damn who the coach is. The coach doesn't play. Face it, we DO SUCK.
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Reasonable post, but the reasoning may be circular. Coaching is the path to reducing the gap between American players and the other, and yet you say we lack the players. Part of the reason we lack the players is that our players have not been pointed in the right direction by those trusted to coach them. Hence, while you are correct that great players make great coaches, tou overlook that coaches are responsible for helping players to improve, and the top American players have not improved in the last few years. Yes, even if they had improved, they likely would have lost, but it's their sustained lack of progress that has to have many an American fan upset.

Finally, I agree 100% that the move toward bar table pool is killing them and lowering their pedigree. I've posted the same dozens of times on this forum.
 
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a coach at the the pro elit elite level adds a little or takes away a little

no more no less, a few exceptions, Bellicheck, popovich, etc.....


wilson was not the greatest coach but the team just sucked
 
Very very very well write up. Thoughtful, insightful, and for the most part impartial.

I would add an observation I feel is key with our players involving alternate breaks. Many of the guys who were on the team are break buildings in winner breaks formats. The alternate break forces you to practice your break, because if it isn't on par with your opponent, your chances of winning can be highly reduced. A good break is key in these short races, and I did not see that as much from America this year.

Practice the break over and over again just like it is going to happen in the cup. 9 on the spot, 9 foot table, pockets as close as possible to the conditions. I think the having to sit down for alternate breaks takes the USA players out of their groove and and natural pattern, so it may be time to work on that a bit more.
 
smashmouth said:
a coach at the the pro elit elite level adds a little or takes away a little

no more no less, a few exceptions, Bellicheck, popovich, etc.....


wilson was not the greatest coach but the team just sucked
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Once again, I'll disagree. The team didn't address areas of weakness in the past two Mosconi Cups. That should have been different and would have been with better coaching. The team sucked, in part, because it was not led in the right direction.

I would agree that, while at the Mosconi, coaching makes little, if any, difference, but a coach can influence whether a team shows up prepared, and whether they suck upon arrival at the event.
 
I tend to agree with "Guru" Stu (your new pool nickname!) on most counts here. We have a long way to go to catch up, but I for one believe it's possible and would devote a year of my life to make the dream come true. I kind of like the idea that we start out as big underdogs. Let's see what we can accomplish in a year's time. I feel we have the talent here to do it. We just need to go about things in a wholly different way.

Given the chance I would start from scratch in January building the TEAM! A hint - this is not just about practicing pool and specific aspects of the game. That comes later. First we must have a total lifestyle evaluation! Health and fitness are key here. I'm talking mental as well as physical well being. If you have problems in your personal life it affects everything else in your life. Gotta clean that all up! A fitness regimen does not have to be that rigorous, just enough to make you feel better about yourself. Thirty minutes a day of calisthenics and a healthy diet will do wonders for most people.

When you feel good about yourself, you will perform better. After that's handled, the really tough stuff can begin. Play against top flight competition ALL year, work our butts off on our weaknesses - kicking, safeties, breaking, etc. I truly believe this can be turned around, IN ONE YEAR! I'm putting my cards on the table publicly. We'll see what happens!
 
jay helfert said:
I tend to agree with "Guru" Stu (your new pool nickname!) on most counts here. We have a long way to go to catch up, but I for one believe it's possible and would devote a year of my life to make the dream come true. I kind of like the idea that we start out as big underdogs. Let's see what we can accomplish in a year's time. I feel we have the talent here to do it. We just need to go about things in a wholly different way.

Given the chance I would start from scratch in January building the TEAM! A hint - this is not just about practicing pool and specific aspects of the game. That comes later. First we must have a total lifestyle evaluation! Health and fitness are key here. I'm talking mental as well as physical well being. If you have problems in your personal life it affects everything else in your life. Gotta clean that all up! A fitness regimen does not have to be that rigorous, just enough to make you feel better about yourself. Thirty minutes a day of calisthenics and a healthy diet will do wonders for most people.

When you feel good about yourself, you will perform better. After that's handled, the really tough stuff can begin. Play against top flight competition ALL year, work our butts off on our weaknesses - kicking, safeties, breaking, etc. I truly believe this can be turned around, IN ONE YEAR! I'm putting my cards on the table publicly. We'll see what happens!
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Well said, Jay.
 
jay helfert said:
I tend to agree with "Guru" Stu (your new pool nickname!) on most counts here. We have a long way to go to catch up, but I for one believe it's possible and would devote a year of my life to make the dream come true. I kind of like the idea that we start out as big underdogs. Let's see what we can accomplish in a year's time. I feel we have the talent here to do it. We just need to go about things in a wholly different way.

Given the chance I would start from scratch in January building the TEAM! A hint - this is not just about practicing pool and specific aspects of the game. That comes later. First we must have a total lifestyle evaluation! Health and fitness are key here. I'm talking mental as well as physical well being. If you have problems in your personal life it affects everything else in your life. Gotta clean that all up! A fitness regimen does not have to be that rigorous, just enough to make you feel better about yourself. Thirty minutes a day of calisthenics and a healthy diet will do wonders for most people.

When you feel good about yourself, you will perform better. After that's handled, the really tough stuff can begin. Play against top flight competition ALL year, work our butts off on our weaknesses - kicking, safeties, breaking, etc. I truly believe this can be turned around, IN ONE YEAR! I'm putting my cards on the table publicly. We'll see what happens!
Click to expand...

Jay, don't mean to be critical and with all due respect... I don't get your plan. How do you start in January, devote a year of your life, sponsor players in world events etc when you have no idea who is going to be on the team until a month or so before the event. Or are you saying Mr Hearn, please make me the USA captain and let me pick my team in January so I can take a year to whip them into shape ... Now an idea that makes more sense is to ask Mr Hearn to change US team qualification points events to include more world events. If a person wants to qualify they will have to play tougher, international events..
 
>>Maybe my memory is wrong, but I think it mostly came up in the context of one team member sizing up the next shot while the current shooter was sizing up the current shot and working as a team not to burn up time on the clock, especially when they were on opposite sides of the table. I thought it was actually pretty good team work.<<

EXACTLY. our guys weren't playing as Teams at all, they were playing as individuals, which meant one guy running out his clock bouncing around the table sizing up shape, and then rushing the shot. and we've done this Every Year, and we wonder why we're hopelessly outplayed from a technical perspective. this is the Major difference in USA as a "team" compared with Euro as an actual Team. they saved massive amounts of time working together like that, and that's a large part of why they execute so well.

i also have to say that i just don't get the vibe for Bergman at this event. yes, he was better than previously, but far too often he was whaling away at shots and giving up the table as a result; there were at least 2 kicks he did like this where he seemed like a beginner 9-ball player trying to slop something in instead of playing a disciplined game and controlling the cueball. that said, he Was greatly improved.

Woodward, otoh, has a composure far beyond his years, and i think he's an incredible asset.
 
sjm said:
Once again, I'll disagree. The team didn't address areas of weakness in the past two Mosconi Cups. That should have been different and would have been with better coaching. The team sucked, in part, because it was not led in the right direction.

I would agree that, while at the Mosconi, coaching makes little, if any, difference, but a coach can influence whether a team shows up prepared, and whether they suck upon arrival at the event.
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How much preparation can the coach do when the team is announced right before the start of the event?

Sure, there's at least 1-3 players that are a given, but for the rest? I'm not so sure players would want to spend so much time preparing for something they may not even be a part of. Just imagine if Oscar had spent the year working on his kicks and safety play.
 
sjm, I believe you are way to kind in your assessment of this years team.

Jay Helfert for 2017 team captain.

If Jay could get a certain player in Florida on board with the program, a one year turn around could be a possibility?
 
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BeiberLvr said:
How much preparation can the coach do when the team is announced right before the start of the event?

Sure, there's at least 1-3 players that are a given, but for the rest? I'm not so sure players would want to spend so much time preparing for something they may not even be a part of. Just imagine if Oscar had spent the year working on his kicks and safety play.
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Good post for sure. Here's what I wrote in a different thread about selecting the next team.

sjm said:
Here's my idea.

Early in the calendar year, take the five members of 2016 Mosconi team and five (or more) other players worthy of consideration --- let's say, for the sake of argument, Billy Thorpe, Oscar Dominguez, Josh Roberts, Shawn Wilkie, and Shane McMinn.

Measure their skills in each major area of the game. For me that means:

Break
Pocketing
Position play
Pattern play
Safety play
Kicking and billiard knowledge

After assessing each player, advise them of their weaknesses and ask them to work on those weaknesses. Test them again in October, and eliminate those that haven't addressed their weakness(es) from Team USA consideration. Those that have made progress remain eligible for team consideration.

The team should be the five highest Mosconi ranking point earners among those that have addressed their weaknesses.

This would mean we'd have a team of players who cared enough to improve their skills and address their weaknesses during the year.
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I think this addresses your well-considered question.
 
jay helfert said:
I tend to agree with "Guru" Stu (your new pool nickname!) on most counts here. We have a long way to go to catch up, but I for one believe it's possible and would devote a year of my life to make the dream come true. I kind of like the idea that we start out as big underdogs. Let's see what we can accomplish in a year's time. I feel we have the talent here to do it. We just need to go about things in a wholly different way.

Given the chance I would start from scratch in January building the TEAM! A hint - this is not just about practicing pool and specific aspects of the game. That comes later. First we must have a total lifestyle evaluation! Health and fitness are key here. I'm talking mental as well as physical well being. If you have problems in your personal life it affects everything else in your life. Gotta clean that all up! A fitness regimen does not have to be that rigorous, just enough to make you feel better about yourself. Thirty minutes a day of calisthenics and a healthy diet will do wonders for most people.

When you feel good about yourself, you will perform better. After that's handled, the really tough stuff can begin. Play against top flight competition ALL year, work our butts off on our weaknesses - kicking, safeties, breaking, etc. I truly believe this can be turned around, IN ONE YEAR! I'm putting my cards on the table publicly. We'll see what happens!
Click to expand...

Wow, to be called a guru by you is an honor indeed. Your great passion for and commitment to the game are evident in your wonderful post. You'd make a great coach for sure, Jay.
 
crabbcatjohn said:
Jay, don't mean to be critical and with all due respect... I don't get your plan. How do you start in January, devote a year of your life, sponsor players in world events etc when you have no idea who is going to be on the team until a month or so before the event. Or are you saying Mr Hearn, please make me the USA captain and let me pick my team in January so I can take a year to whip them into shape ... Now an idea that makes more sense is to ask Mr Hearn to change US team qualification points events to include more world events. If a person wants to qualify they will have to play tougher, international events..
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I know who the best players are already and the ones who I want to give an opportunity to. Those are the guys I will focus on. Some of them have already played the MC and some have not as yet. I am completely willing to work within the guidelines laid out by Matchroom. I hope that answers your question.
 
BeiberLvr said:
How much preparation can the coach do when the team is announced right before the start of the event?

Sure, there's at least 1-3 players that are a given, but for the rest? I'm not so sure players would want to spend so much time preparing for something they may not even be a part of. Just imagine if Oscar had spent the year working on his kicks and safety play.
Click to expand...

The hard work (let's call it training camp) will take place in the last month. But the experience in major national and international competition will take place all year.
 
jay helfert said:
I know who the best players are already and the ones who I want to give an opportunity to. Those are the guys I will focus on. Some of them have already played the MC and some have not as yet. I am completely willing to work within the guidelines laid out by Matchroom. I hope that answers your question.
Click to expand...

Jay, you know who the best players are but how would the individuals know they were under consideration?
 
sjm said:
Once again, I'll disagree. The team didn't address areas of weakness in the past two Mosconi Cups. That should have been different and would have been with better coaching. The team sucked, in part, because it was not led in the right direction.

I would agree that, while at the Mosconi, coaching makes little, if any, difference, but a coach can influence whether a team shows up prepared, and whether they suck upon arrival at the event.
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Team USA did seem to improve in the kicking area, stu. Last year the kicking fouls were 13-4 in Team Europe's favor, this year 5-5 (in 4 fewer matches this year). Perhaps the coach had something to do with that improvement.
 
AtLarge said:
Team USA did seem to improve in the kicking area, stu. Last year the kicking fouls were 13-4 in Team Europe's favor, this year 5-5 (in 4 fewer matches this year). Perhaps the coach had something to do with that improvement.
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Yes, but this is not the crux of the matter. Selection of kicking paths and knowing when to kick and when to jump are major areas of weakness. Team USA, far too often, sold out on a kick when a better path would have made a good result far more likely.

Sorry, but we were big losers in defense/kicking/jumping sequences, and that's a big part of why we were dominated in the racks in which both teams shot (that is, non Break and run racks). Perhaps you would know the rack count in the "both teams got to shoot" racks.
 
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