Slate Sealer

RKC opinion needed!

Except for reactions with fillers, sealing the slate is a good idea. Any spills would not penetrate, making mopping up immediately after a spill easier and quicker drying. Recovering may or may not be made easier.

Waiting for the sealer to dry would extend the time it takes to cover the table which is why some people would not support the idea.

Just my ideas , I am not a table guy. Perhaps RKC would give us his opinion on this.
 
I'm not a mechanic, but wouldn't any kind of sealer take away from the hardness of the slate surface?
 
it would probably be a good idea to scientfically determine what the ideal moisture content for a slate should be, before it is sealed, lest ye seal in too much or too little moisture.

i get the feeling that, due to the nature of slate, it probably needs to 'breathe'.

and it seems like a sealer would make it harder to superglue,bondo,plaster or wax a seam...

i also get the feeling that a sealer would cause any moisture introduced onto the (upper) surface to be more easily wicked all the way into the cloth..

and it could be possible that a sealer would change the texture of the slate surface, causing the cloth to do things it shouldnt....but then again, i've never tried it...

just some thoughts...
 
great points Mr Bond worth noting

I googled this some time ago as a solution to humidity problems with an AZ'er's table and all info I found suggested it would be a good thing to do. The sealer will breath but of course trials DOE would need to be completed.
 
OTLB said:
ever wonder why slate isn't sealed to prevent moisture penetration?
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Two part question, first...why would you worry about sealing the slate, and two...what would the overall benefit be, and would it even make a difference?
 
Keeping moisture out of the slate should make it more consistent in respect to play in certain climates in particular
 
OTLB said:
Keeping moisture out of the slate should make it more consistent in respect to play in certain climates in particular
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Wouldn't the moisture affect the cloth and cushions more anyway ?
I think the temperature of the slate is more crucial to it than the water content.
Heated slates are not sealed afaik.
just asking.
Thanks.
 
OTLB said:
Keeping moisture out of the slate should make it more consistent in respect to play in certain climates in particular
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The following is a description of what slate sealer is used for, but it's main purpose is to prevent staining of the slate. On a pool table, the finished surface of the slate is not seen, so back to my original question, what's to gain by sealing the surface of the slate, when the wood products used to built the rails have a much higher moisture content in them than any slate ever could have. If you poured a cup of water right in the middle of the slate, the slate is not going to swell up like particle board does, or even MDF. So, is this just a thought, or is there some kind of evidence behind your question that suggests that manufactures of pool tables should "Seal" the slates at the factory level?

FORMULATED SPECIFICALLY FOR
SLATE, FLAGSTONE AND QUARRY TILE
PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
A clear acrylic waterbase finish designed to protect and
beautify slate, flagstone and quarry tile. Glaze ’N Seal
Slate Sealer protects against all organic stains including
cooking oil, grease and beverages. It may be used indoors
or outdoors and is extremely easy to apply and maintain.
USES
• Waterseals, protects and improves appearance
of all slate, flagstone and quarry tile.
• Use indoors and outdoors.
• Low sheen appearance eases clean up.
• May be used as grout release.
FEATURES
• Repels oil and grease stains
• Nonflammable
• No harmful vapors
• Cleans up with water
• Easy to apply
• Water repellent
• Reduce efflorescence
• Recoatable
• Non-yellowing
 
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I have seen slates damaged by moisture and in fact become brittle. I'm surprised that you haven't in all those thousands of tables you did. My point is very simple so don't twist it.

No moisture in slate, therefor it can't wick up to the cloth. AS I have already stated I asked the question and it just makes sense that it would be better. Perhaps not noticeable but maybe it would be in a table like in an outdoor room in FL.

Rails and other table components are often sealed to help in this area.

side note: there is also another scenario in my mind why this would be good but theres no point in talking since everyone is a clam shell
 
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along time ago i sealed the top of gc1 with mars glass made the top of the slate slick/smooth. but i have never been back or called for any leveling issues or twisting or cupping of the slate. It was installed in the middle of the house tempeture stays consistant.

I do think if you seal one side yopu really need to do all sides or it might react like bimetal twist or cupp from heat one side cold or moisture on the other side. So maybe soak the slate in a large tub for for less reaction even soak time.

This wheel has been working for 200+ years think they would have changed if they found something better but haven't Brunswick tried got sued and went back to tried and true slate just from a different country.

Craig
 
yes good points Craig. The entire slate maybe be sprayed at the factory. Its an idea that you came up with so what made you think of it?
 
one other thing i was going to mention is the Thermodynamic Properties of various rocks and minerals.

marble, for example, is not ideal for billiard surfaces because of its TPs. It is prone to condensation "sweat" ( and not as porous as slate)

sealing a slate may alter a slate's TPs in a such a way as to induce a similar phenomenon..?

although again, I have yet to try it myself..

carry on.
 
Mr. Bond said:
one other thing i was going to mention is the Thermodynamic Properties of various rocks and minerals.

marble, for example, is not ideal for billiard surfaces because of its TPs. It is prone to condensation "sweat" ( and not as porous as slate)

sealing a slate may alter a slate's TPs in a such a way as to induce a similar phenomenon..?

although again, I have yet to try it myself..

carry on.
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not sure about that, I have done marble tables before and never detected any issues. In fact the balls almost seemed to roll faster

FYI I don't carry I roll
 
I stained some large closet doors on one side made of 1/8"wood, every night as the house cooled off the doors would pop and buckle all night long and early morning same thing once the house heated up all silent till sun went down and started all over again.

As for the mars glass used table someone ground the slates with a grinder or large sander balls kept rolling like a question mark plus had some viens running through them. so buddy that does hotrods helped to block sand down the high spots till all was flat said lets seal it. I think to hide or fill any sanpapper scratches three layers of mars glass and some 400 wet sanding table was smooth as glass.

old thread on it
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=140394

Thanks,
Craig
 
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For fun I think it may be interesting to seal the slate and level it by pouring small puddles on it
 
Mr. Bond said:
one other thing i was going to mention is the Thermodynamic Properties of various rocks and minerals.

marble, for example, is not ideal for billiard surfaces because of its TPs. It is prone to condensation "sweat" ( and not as porous as slate)

sealing a slate may alter a slate's TPs in a such a way as to induce a similar phenomenon..?

although again, I have yet to try it myself..

carry on.
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This is where I was going. Seal the slate and moisture has nowhere to go but into the cloth.

OTLB I think marble was discarded because its less pourous. Maybe when you just got done on your marble tables the balls may have been faster but in some conditions I'd say there's a problem like next week when its raining. Marble is probably easier to machine more perfect than slate, but then there's granite.

Granite may be a better solution if sealing is the right thing to do. But here too, none, or very little breathing. I think the surface needs to breath and the only way to solve the issue is what is done with 3C tables. HEAT Like JOEYINCALI says. I've always wondered why its not even an option unless you dig deep into European Tables.

On a side note: If your table sits in a good HVAC environment heat only adds a minimal advantage and probably why I can't buy it even if I want to here in the USA. We're spoiled in this area.

Of course this is all my unprofessional/non-mechanic opinion based on only 2 decades of thinking about this.
 
3kushn said:
This is where I was going. Seal the slate and moisture has nowhere to go but into the cloth.

OTLB I think marble was discarded because its less pourous. Maybe when you just got done on your marble tables the balls may have been faster but in some conditions I'd say there's a problem like next week when its raining. Marble is probably easier to machine more perfect than slate, but then there's granite.

Granite may be a better solution if sealing is the right thing to do. But here too, none, or very little breathing. I think the surface needs to breath and the only way to solve the issue is what is done with 3C tables. HEAT Like JOEYINCALI says. I've always wondered why its not even an option unless you dig deep into European Tables.

On a side note: If your table sits in a good HVAC environment heat only adds a minimal advantage and probably why I can't buy it even if I want to here in the USA. We're spoiled in this area.

Of course this is all my unprofessional/non-mechanic opinion based on only 2 decades of thinking about this.[/


Have you played on a table with marble?
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OTLB said:
3kushn said:
This is where I was going. Seal the slate and moisture has nowhere to go but into the cloth.

OTLB I think marble was discarded because its less pourous. Maybe when you just got done on your marble tables the balls may have been faster but in some conditions I'd say there's a problem like next week when its raining. Marble is probably easier to machine more perfect than slate, but then there's granite.

Granite may be a better solution if sealing is the right thing to do. But here too, none, or very little breathing. I think the surface needs to breath and the only way to solve the issue is what is done with 3C tables. HEAT Like JOEYINCALI says. I've always wondered why its not even an option unless you dig deep into European Tables.

On a side note: If your table sits in a good HVAC environment heat only adds a minimal advantage and probably why I can't buy it even if I want to here in the USA. We're spoiled in this area.

Of course this is all my unprofessional/non-mechanic opinion based on only 2 decades of thinking about this.[/


Have you played on a table with marble?
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OTLB Yes I have plated on a marble table but not enough to critique this issue.

Don't get me wrong I think marble is probably a better material disregarding cost. But I also think, with no scientific proof, that slate has a higher wicking factor (if that's even a term) than marble and the cloth will wick more moisture laid over marble than slate.

We all know that humidity changes how a table plays and it just seems to me that the variance we'd notice would be greater with marble. Unless we apply heat. Then my vote goes to marble or granite or maybe as mentioned in the other slate thread, glass because of their hardness and resistance to chipping vs slate.
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