Slow play by pros
- Thread starter middleofnowhere
- Start date
That's pretty much my view. Just deal with the snails. I think the shot clock is necessary for weak promotions, but someone like Matchroom should be able to deal with the slow players. Using a shot clock isn't all positive as there is quite a bit of drama that is lost when the the game is played to a metronome.
Tick...tick...tick...5
Tick...tick...tick...5
If you want that to happen to the pro tour, I think you need to convince Emily. Good luck. While you're at it, have her change the five ball back to orange and the four to purple, if she has to have a purple ball.
I’d be interested in the games but will leave the orange 5 ball to Fatboy!
cueball2010
Active member
When did they reduce pocket size? 30 years ago? What was the size?
With the advances in Cloth, Pocket facings, rails, cue tips, etc.. Don't the pockets play just as big as bigger pockets in the stone age? I feel like the ability to move the ball must have went way up through the roof in comparison to any reduction in pockets size. My first clue would be Dr. Dave and his new, smaller pockets playing bigger then his old bigger pockets.
Don't know when they went with 4-inch pockets; it wasn't like that in 2010. I think that it was 4.5 to 4.75 back then and before.
I agree that a well-maintained table with tight pockets will play wider than a badly maintained table with wider pockets. I wrote about it in the past.
But a lot of players come from countries where tables are not that great and humidity is high.
High humidity will make the rails very bouncy, and the balls will return short, and it'll change from hour to hour, so no rail system works... (somebody said waxing?) This makes players less dependent on banks and CB accurate paths and more on the ability to pocket balls with sometimes very hard shots and extreme cut shots. But with 4 inch pocket, some of those shots are impossible, so you play safe.
I first noticing this change in the game with young asian players like Wu Jiaqing back in early 2000's and pockets were still wider back then.
This is just the third full season in which 4" pockets have been used in WNT play. Many of the Matchroom specs in use today (nine on the spot, narrow break box, tighter pockets) were first used at the 2022 European Open and became the norm for the 2023 season.
In 2010, 4 1/2" was the typical pocket size at the 9ball majors.
Did the result of the match likely change? If this happens when you’re up 6-0 or down 0-6 then it doesn’t matter.
Luck is part of 9 ball in every game due to the randomness of the break. You can get lucky or unlucky by being one inch in the wrong direction to be perfectly straight in or having an angle. You can get lucky or unlucky with balls being open or clustering repeatedly on your breaks or your opponent missing and not giving you a shot. Luck and rolls are inherent in 9 ball and pool in general.
You can lose a hill-hill match with your opponent making a slop shot. Your opponent continues in the tournament and you’re out. I’m not going to go through every tournament to see who would have been eliminated if it weren’t for luck, it shouldn’t be part of any game of “skill”, horseshoes maybe, but not pool
Agree big time. Luck is just part of the game. Trying to 'sterilize' the luck out is impossible. If you want a game with less of it play call shot 10b, not 'call safe' tho. That is the worst game ever as it removes the two-way shot. 9b was never designed to be a tournament game, it was designed for GAMBLING. Over time it became a tournament game and luck is just part of it. It should not be as slow as today's pros play it. It was envisioned as a fast-n-loose gambling game not safety filled drudgery.
in magor tournaments it gets harder as well by day 2 or 3
the point of the pockets drop a bit and they become tighter
Cmon, you know that would be virtually impossible because you cant prove a negative. But we have seen slop help teams get game wins even in the Mosconi. I bet it wouldn't take long just watching only MC games and picking the lucky shots that had a bearing on the game at hand.
Well, the people who are so insistent that slop shots have been a key driver in the result of important pro matches seem to be coming up dry when it comes to proving their point. If it’s so common there should be a number of them at the ready as demonstration.
*I am sure there has been a match in which a slop shot helped determine the outcome of a big match, but it definitely is uncommon. So much goes on in a game to determine who wins.
*Luck add to drama. In all sports. It also gets players and fans riled up. Don't like it? Don't give your opponent a chance to keep it close. Luck also tends to even out over matches and/or time.
*Ten ball is too slow and too long to be a TV mainstay.
*Pool will never break through to the general public, at least not in the West, as mainstream sport. The goal is to at least get all people who play pool regularly to watch more. That's tens of millions of people. Imagine if WNT.TV could get 1 million subscribers globally.
*Not sure what a lot of people on this thread are watching. Pro players have quickly adjusted to four-inch pockets. They still cheat the pocket and, if anything, their position play has arguably become better. They have to get closer to their work to cheat pocket and to get position on their next ball. And that's what they are doing.
*I still see players taking plenty of risks - bank shots, caroms, multi-rail position shots. Especially the very best players. Perhaps a lot more two-way shots than in the past.
*Safety play is still just a small percentage of all shots taken. There's more of it if a player doesn't have a shot after the break, but far less afterward. By and large, I think most safety play is fun to watch. I've seen some great safety battles lately, adding even more chess dimension to the game. What is the right balance? WNT is finding out.
In short, I think the game is in a good spot.
*Luck add to drama. In all sports. It also gets players and fans riled up. Don't like it? Don't give your opponent a chance to keep it close. Luck also tends to even out over matches and/or time.
*Ten ball is too slow and too long to be a TV mainstay.
*Pool will never break through to the general public, at least not in the West, as mainstream sport. The goal is to at least get all people who play pool regularly to watch more. That's tens of millions of people. Imagine if WNT.TV could get 1 million subscribers globally.
*Not sure what a lot of people on this thread are watching. Pro players have quickly adjusted to four-inch pockets. They still cheat the pocket and, if anything, their position play has arguably become better. They have to get closer to their work to cheat pocket and to get position on their next ball. And that's what they are doing.
*I still see players taking plenty of risks - bank shots, caroms, multi-rail position shots. Especially the very best players. Perhaps a lot more two-way shots than in the past.
*Safety play is still just a small percentage of all shots taken. There's more of it if a player doesn't have a shot after the break, but far less afterward. By and large, I think most safety play is fun to watch. I've seen some great safety battles lately, adding even more chess dimension to the game. What is the right balance? WNT is finding out.
In short, I think the game is in a good spot.
Agree 10000% here. At higher levels of the game 'shit' shots rarely are the deciding factor. You see it a lot more at amateur/recreational levels but rarely in high Fargo/pro stuff.
One other thing: the shot clock.
It is of course here to stay. All sports have shot clocks these days, and for good reason. The beeps don't bother me. I think they add to the drama.
Players need to think faster and play faster. They won't do so on their own. I often skip or FF thru matches without a clock they take so long. And I see scant evidence players play better with more time. Some seem to agonize forever (Capito is among the worst).
Getting clocks on all tables is the problem. If there were an easy, cheap fix Matchroom would have come up with it by now.
The likely solution - barring a huge flush of revenue for WNT - is some sort of AI device with a camera that starts a clock right after the balls stop rolling following a shot.
Volunteers is the other option, but a much riskier one. Especially with a 256-player field.
It is of course here to stay. All sports have shot clocks these days, and for good reason. The beeps don't bother me. I think they add to the drama.
Players need to think faster and play faster. They won't do so on their own. I often skip or FF thru matches without a clock they take so long. And I see scant evidence players play better with more time. Some seem to agonize forever (Capito is among the worst).
Getting clocks on all tables is the problem. If there were an easy, cheap fix Matchroom would have come up with it by now.
The likely solution - barring a huge flush of revenue for WNT - is some sort of AI device with a camera that starts a clock right after the balls stop rolling following a shot.
Volunteers is the other option, but a much riskier one. Especially with a 256-player field.