Smoking bans causes more DUI deaths

mullyman said:
I do not agree on a ban though. Not because I'm a smoker. I just don't think it's right that the government can tell someone what they can and can't allow in their establishment. Sure, we could take this to the extreme and say "then they should allow murder in their establishment" etc... That's not a valid argument. If a shop owner wants to allow smoking then so be it. If you're a non-smoker and don't want to be around the smoke you have every right to go somewhere else.
MULLY
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thats my main point. i could live with a smoking ban if i had no choice. I just cant stand the government telling me whats best for me. Im allowed to drink myself stupid and thats fine but if i want 1 cigarette im a leper all of a sudden. We need less government not more.
 
Study shows that the Cannibal ban causes more starvation.

That's right. Banning the eating of human beings has caused some cannibals to die of starvation. The starvation rate has now gone up. Studies show that overall deaths have been reduced now that less humans are being killed and eaten but some still feel that the ban is wrong because the starvation rate has gone up.
 
TXsouthpaw said:
thats my main point. i could live with a smoking ban if i had no choice. I just cant stand the government telling me whats best for me. Im allowed to drink myself stupid and thats fine but if i want 1 cigarette im a leper all of a sudden. We need less government not more.
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This is not thinking though the issue well enough. Or at all. You have to take each individual thing the government tells us we can or can't do on an individual basis. Most people consider not killing to be a good thing, paying more taxes as being bad. And more to the point, making meth illegal is good. So I don't think we should use such a broad brush as to say "the government" for one, and "tells us what to do" second. These issues are far too complex to treat in such a general and abstract way. I think it is safe to say that smoking is not good for you. Ok fine but neither is drinking. However (wheather you agree with general consenses or not) second hand smoke does affect people. I dont know if it kills. But it does effect people without using it. Oh screw it, like someone who actually wants to smoke indoors is going to care about making sense anyway.
 
Luxury said:
Study shows that the Cannibal ban causes more starvation.

That's right. Banning the eating of human beings has caused some cannibals to die of starvation. The starvation rate has now gone up. Studies show that overall deaths have been reduced now that less humans are being killed and eaten but some still feel that the ban is wrong because the starvation rate has gone up.
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Yeah the examples of the illogic of the article could be endless. And im over this thread, its like trying to teach a cat algebra.
 
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Driving DRUNK causes drunk driving fatalities.

Nothing more, nothing less.

The only change here in these people's driving habits is that they are driving farther, which means when they're driving drunk (which they shouldn't be doing IN THE FIRST PLACE) they have a longer period of time where they can lose control of their car in a drunken stupor and kill themselves and/or others.

Now I'm off to march in the local anti-cannibalism-ban rally.

(edited for spelling... meh)
 
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"...Smokers are willing to drive longer distances to an establishment that allows smoking..."

That just indicates that smoking bans should encompass the whole state and ultimately all states.

BTW, I decided play the place I play to play in a state with smoking bans. Since the the state I'm in also went non-smoking, but it wasn't when I decided where to play.
 
Quote: "Using fatalities as a gauge in the study is more accurate than using data on DUIs, since drunk-driving laws are not uniformly enforced".

Why on earth blame the smoking ban for this ? How about enforcing those drunk-driving laws and catching those DUI'ing SOB's.
 
gotta love freedom
smoke.gif
 
worriedbeef said:
To put it rather crudely, "telling people what to do" is the whole point in a government. We live in a society where we elect a government to govern us. To make informed decisions for the benefit of society.

Also in response to "that isn't a valid argument". Why isn't it? Why do you think it's ok to ban certain things but smoking is ok and it's unfair to ban that. I mean it's not unreasonable to have mass public drug taking at least restricted is it? I mean in theory it's bad enough cigarettes are even legal when you think about it.

Also your point about going somewhere else - I wasn't aware that there are masses of good quality pool halls everywhere giving us a huge great choice of alternatives.
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Good post, I was going to respond in roughly the same way.
I'd add that everything about businesses that serve the public is regulated. A smoking regulation is just a new regulation, but not a philosophical change. If the government can't regulate smoking, than they can't regulate food vending, or the selling of alcohol, or maximum capacity, or having sufficient fire exits, etc.
 
Kind of a limited study, imho....but if it's true, then the smoking ban helped take a private property, voluntary situation to the public involuntary streets. This could be another example of unintended consequences of laws that violate property rights.

But like someone said, drunk driving makes for DUIs....but why help that happen?

Fewer choices, dangerous streets.
Less freedom, eat your meats.
Hang the offenders, everyday.
Have beer and it goes away.

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
Kind of a limited study, imho....but if it's true, then the smoking ban helped take a private property, voluntary situation to the public involuntary streets. This could be another example of unintended consequences of laws that violate property rights.
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That assumes that said pool halls abut right up to public sidewalks.

All the pool halls in Colorado (where I moved from some months ago, and where a state-wide smoking ordinance went into effect last summer) are in strip malls or similar private developments. I rarely, if ever, saw folks walking by the areas where the smokers congregated.

That said, many rooms are able to let their smokers feed their habit on outdoor patios on the private property they rent.
 
National smoking ban please. I'm all for having freedoms (including the freedom of breathable air in any public or public-serving place) but when you start to argue AGAINST a smoking ban by using incidents of drunk driving you are really stretching it thin. Drunk drivers can kill themselves for all I care, but sadly they take innocent people with them sometimes. It's a corrupt argument to begin with. The stupidity of the individuals violating the law is what causes the increase in DUI's, not the smoking ban.

Just to humor you, my solution to your problem with regional smoking bans is a national smoking ban. Ban cigarettes in general please. Alcohol is a completely separate issue seeing as it can be consumed responsibly around large groups of people in a small enclosed area. It doesn't negatively affect anyone else's health around them and can even increase the enjoyment of an atmosphere whereas smoking does the exact opposite.
 
As a non smoker, I can't believe they banned smoking. These guys should have the right to smoke... It isn't like it kills them or the people around them. They should be able to smoke in cars with little kids, let their babies smoke, smoke in hospitals (that must be horrible not smoking here since they are too ill for walk outside). The the biggest one, the poor bastards sitting on a plane for hours and not able to smoke. How could they do that to these people with the right to light.

It all started with those stupid restrictions on DUI. You have the right to drink and a right to drive... why not drink and drive at same time.... I can't believe they would pass laws to save lives because some people are too stupid to do it them self or don't have the self control to police them self. Damn government.
After all, non smokers have the right stay home because all rooms are smoking without smoking bylaws.

You have the right to light is the reason they passed these laws. Everyone has the right just no judgment on where a good place to light is.
 
NO, you don't...

TXsouthpaw said:
Whoooo that got some quick responses, gotta love living in a democacy.
theyve tried to ban smoking twice locally and its been voted down twice.
U have the right to not go into a smokey bar and i should have the right to light up if i want too.:cool:



this is gonna be good :)
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not around non-smokers. Go somewhere else.

MM
 
my solution to your problem with regional smoking bans is a national smoking ban. Ban cigarettes in general please. Alcohol is a completely separate issue seeing as it can be consumed responsibly around large groups of people in a small enclosed area. It doesn't negatively affect anyone else's health around them and can even increase the enjoyment of an atmosphere whereas smoking does the exact opposite.
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Agreed! Seriously! :D
 
TXsouthpaw said:
Whoooo that got some quick responses, gotta love living in a democacy.
theyve tried to ban smoking twice locally and its been voted down twice.
U have the right to not go into a smokey bar and i should have the right to light up if i want too.:cool:



this is gonna be good :)
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Hey I agree let us vote on it :eek:
I got a feeling it was a back door vote where the sellout politicians in your area sneak it through in a way they were not held accountable
Why do I say this?
in PA. the politician say yes but somehow it never gets to a vote because of the lobbyists monies IE. casinos,tobacco Interests and bars
It a shame they don't require them to take care of the people they are poisoning by requiring them to provide health benefits!!
I wonder what the rates would be and if they would not allow smoking inside on their own!
80% in Pa. favor a ban!
 
TXsouthpaw said:
thats my main point. i could live with a smoking ban if i had no choice. I just cant stand the government telling me whats best for me. Im allowed to drink myself stupid and thats fine but if i want 1 cigarette im a leper all of a sudden. We need less government not more.
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Drinking yourself stupid doesn't endanger the life of the person sitting next to you... and if you do something while drunk that does endanger that person's life (like drive a car), well the gov has made that illegal too. The gov is not stopping you from smoking yourself to death. They are stopping you from smoking everyone else to death.
 
worriedbeef said:
Also your point about going somewhere else - I wasn't aware that there are masses of good quality pool halls everywhere giving us a huge great choice of alternatives.
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Yeah, I shouldn't have said that one. I'm spoiled in that I have 5 pool halls all within 15 minutes of home.
MULLY
 
That's the funniest sh!t I've heard in a while! Lift the smoking bans so that people don't have to drive as far when they're drunk!! :D :D

I love it.
 
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