Snooker play VS American style.

8pack

They call me 2 county !
Silver Member
Snooker player's are well known for their pocketing ability.Why haven't more of them won at any American style billiard games.(Events)if any events...Do you think its because of the way they pocket ball's(staying pretty much center)they fall short on the ability to take a higher percentage routes when getting through the rack.Bad safety play,don't kick well,breaking.
What keep's these guy's from doing well at other games(our games) besides snooker?
 
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Snooker player's are well known for their pocketing ability.Why haven't more of them won at any American style billiard games.(Events)if any events...Do you think its because of the way they pocket ball's(staying pretty much center)they fall short on the ability to take a higher percentage routes when getting through the rack.Bad safety play,don't kick well,breaking.
What keep's these guy's from doing well at other games(our games) besides snooker?

Center ball is amazing and snooker players do it well. IMHO there are many snooker players who have made the switch and they are kicking @ss on the pool table. Much more then there are pool players switching to and doing well in snooker.
 
Because Pool players are REALLY good at pool. Snooker players may have laser straight strokes and near perfect fundamentals, but there is a point of diminishing returns. You simply can't increase your potting percentage past 100% and a lot of pool players finish matches having only missed 1-3 or if any. I've watched all those videos of snooker players making pool look easy, but none of them compare to some of the TAR matches Shane played where he ran more packages than I've ever seen.
 
Snooker player's are well known for their pocketing ability.Why haven't more of them won at any American style billiard games.(Events)if any events...Do you think its because of the way they pocket ball's(staying pretty much center)they fall short on the ability to take a higher percentage routes when getting through the rack.Bad safety play,don't kick well,breaking.
What keep's these guy's from doing well at other games(our games) besides snooker?


RALPH ECTERT in his book "Modern Pool" comparing Snooker and Pool.

According to his knowledge, feelings and experience he tells:
That snooker is mostly about Accuracy and potting the balls which is not that easy on 12ft table.
Pool is mainly about precision controling the cue ball and diferent techniques of shots, because potting the balls is not that difficult.

Styles of those two games are completly different, and so not many players won't to change them own routine and way of playing.

Plus, snooker players earning muuuuch more then pool players.
 
Not this again!

SNOOKER WC = $400,000.00 USD GUARANTEED!
If pocket billiards offered this first prize for winning the 9 BALL WC, more Snooker pros would enter and dare say it - WIN IT - Not all the time but some would :thumbup:

"It's not about winning, it's about money."
Edward "Fast Eddie" Felson
 
Not this again!

SNOOKER WC = $400,000.00 USD GUARANTEED!
If pocket billiards offered this first prize for winning the 9 BALL WC, more Snooker pros would enter and dare say it - WIN IT - Not all the time but some would :thumbup:

"It's not about winning, it's about money."
Edward "Fast Eddie" Felson

Maybe it is about the money.Win...well they'd have to change the way they play.

Like to see a match between the best of both disciplines playing both games.
Would be interesting.
 
Snooker players have typically done better playing pool than pool players playing snooker, but one of the reasons I think a snooker player really hasn't come over and dominated was brought to my attention while watching a match between Archer and Ronnie. They were both miked up, and hearing Ronnie's comments were very revealing. Anytime Archer cheated a pocket, played a carom, combo, masse, you could hear Ronnie gasp in disbelief. These we not really difficult shots, but probably very low percentage shots on a snooker table. I'd even dare say, the kind of shots many snooker players have never been "conditioned" to even attempt. So in addition to money which leads to a lack of motivation for a snooker player to be willing to do any more than just mess around with pool, I think there are lots of shots that not only are possible on a pool table, but even somewhat routine...........that aren't even considered in the game of snooker.

Dave
 
Snooker players have typically done better playing pool than pool players playing snooker, but one of the reasons I think a snooker player really hasn't come over and dominated was brought to my attention while watching a match between Archer and Ronnie. They were both miked up, and hearing Ronnie's comments were very revealing. Anytime Archer cheated a pocket, played a carom, combo, masse, you could hear Ronnie gasp in disbelief. These we not really difficult shots, but probably very low percentage shots on a snooker table. I'd even dare say, the kind of shots many snooker players have never been "conditioned" to even attempt. So in addition to money which leads to a lack of motivation for a snooker player to be willing to do any more than just mess around with pool, I think there are lots of shots that not only are possible on a pool table, but even somewhat routine...........that aren't even considered in the game of snooker.

Dave
Good points, Dave.

Caroms; you don't get taught that in snooker. You get taught to play position to avoid it, or play safe.

Doubles; they do play them, but not when building a break. Its only played when the frame is won and they want to push past a century or get the high break in a tournament.

Combos; again, you play position to avoid them or play safe.

The tables, not only there size, are completely different in pool and snooker. Cut of the pockets, rails and cloth make a monumental difference. You don't know a long shot until you find yourself behind baulk playing at a red 10ft away on a snooker table.

There is a common misconception about snooker players; they ALWAYS stick to centre ball. Far from it. They use side spin just as much as pool players, but they are pros so they don't use more than is needed, or they choose draw or topspin when it can obtain the same result. They are worldclass at using side, obviously. And on most long shots to start a frame they use side. Snooker is quite similar to 14.1 in that you have a wide range of balls to choose from to start with so you naturally pick the easiest shot, usually without the use of side. Not until you reach the latter stage, a few reds left of a few balls left in 14.1 that you need to use side to gain position. I am pro measles ball for snooker, maybe then people would realise how much side spin snooker players use. Another misconception is that snooker players play for an 'area' an not a specific ball. Not true. They play for a specific ball all the time but it just happens that the reds are conjested so if they run out of position by a few inches they have others to choose from. Ronnie, for example, plays stupidly quick, and yet, he is planning 5, 6, 7 shots ahead each time. That's a full rack of 8 ball almost. And he made a 147 in under 6 mins. A rack of 9 ball takes me 2-5 minutes to run out. That's INSANE! If he chose pool as his profession then no one in the modern pool era would be able to touch him. Same can be said for any sport that involved a table and balls.

As for money...pool is seen as a 'bit on the side' for snooker players. Nothing too serious. However, I feel pool players see snooker as 'if only'. If Earl, Shane and Efren had played snooker since a young age then they would have excelled. Its a shame they would have come up against Steve Davis, Hendry and O'Sullivan because they would have really struggled to find the success they have seen in pool. If pool was guaranteed to pay out as much as the snooker world champs then you would see the guys from the top 16 in snooker that don't really stand a chance transfering over. But you don't. The US open pays half of what the snooker World Championships pays...difference being that in snooker, guaranteed means guranteed.

You really have to ask yourself - pool players are all about making a living, snooker gives you a better living - why aren't they moving to England? Same can be said for the English pool players moving to America - US pool pays more than English pool, so they move to America, just like Daz and Melling.

I'm sorry if this feels like a rant, it wasn't intended to be. But snooker vs pool comes up all the time and all I've said is just speculation. They are completely different games and both sides have tried the other side as camio appearances so until one player moves over and gives it a real shot, we have no idea how they will get on.
 
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Some excellent points. I categorically deny that none have done well, we only consider snooker players the ones that play in exhibitions or pick a couple of tournaments here and there, the ones who have converted or more accurately couldn';t get into the money in snooker so switched to have a better chance are doing relaly well. Appleton (i know he played english8ball but that is more like snooker in terms of potting and pocket size & he played snooker alot), Chris Melling, Boyes, Peach. Ask Pagualyan how much playing snooker helped his game.

At the amatuer level i was a club player at snooker not even that just played some weekends after the footy when I lived in UK came to the US not a table in site so played pool on 7 & 9footers immediately was a 7 APA and contender for local regional events. Granted it takes time to figure out the safety strategy, break, kicks and jump shots but when that comes its game over.

look at DCC last year Pettman has just started playing pool around 18 months adn won lot of money matches and the high run in straight pool.
 
What about the ladies? Allison Fisher, Karen Corr, and Kelly Fisher were snooker champions and all three of them can now be counted as legends of pool.

I believe Marlon Manalo and Mika Immonen were originally snooker players, and, as we saw, snooker pro was the only person to run 100 in 14.1 on the ten footers at Derby City in January, doing it twice.

Some snooker players have succeeded at the top levels of pool, but pool players have not succeeded at the top levels of snooker.
 
Adaptation would happen quickly

Snooker players have typically done better playing pool than pool players playing snooker, but one of the reasons I think a snooker player really hasn't come over and dominated was brought to my attention while watching a match between Archer and Ronnie. They were both miked up, and hearing Ronnie's comments were very revealing. Anytime Archer cheated a pocket, played a carom, combo, masse, you could hear Ronnie gasp in disbelief. These we not really difficult shots, but probably very low percentage shots on a snooker table. I'd even dare say, the kind of shots many snooker players have never been "conditioned" to even attempt. So in addition to money which leads to a lack of motivation for a snooker player to be willing to do any more than just mess around with pool, I think there are lots of shots that not only are possible on a pool table, but even somewhat routine...........that aren't even considered in the game of snooker.

Dave


All of those shots learned rather quickly. The premise of Kiss shots and caroms can be picked up in a hurry. Safety play, along with kicking could take a little longer, but world cueists would eventually master this. Cue ball control may take the most time, but with dedication, they will compete,within the highest levels of pool within a year or so. This of course is for the world class snooker players, only. An average snooker player will only be an average pool player. But let's not forget, their really isn't any incentive for these snooker players to make that transition. Unless they don't like money.
 
I refer firstly to a post I made the other day on a Ronnie O'sullivan thread:

People tend to think of snooker as harder than pool for some reason. Probably because the table is bigger and the pockets smaller. this is simply not true though.

Snooker is not harder than pool but pool is not harder than snooker either. They are equally hard.

Becoming the "best" is equally hard. Number one is number one. If anything pool is "harder" than snooker in that there are many millions more players and therefore statistically it is harder to become the best.

But they are different games. Similar in that they use similar equipment but they are different.

Pool is a game of knowledge. Snooker, certainly at the top levels is bash bash bosh loads of pots. Not a lot to think about really.

Another difference is the value of a mistake.

In snooker, making a mistake may result in the loss of a rack but in pool a mistake may result in the loss of more than one rack indeed many racks.

Anyway...

My point was more I don't like the premise that a snooker professional is better than a pool professional at pool. If that is what people within the sport think about the sport, then no wonder sponsors, tv companies and other outside interests don't give a monkeys if people within consider themselves inferior.

Adding to that. Of course. If a top professional were to swap to pool from snooker, I am sure eventually they would get to the top of the game. But they have to do their apprenticeship first. They have to to do what Appleton did.

Funnily enough I was playing snooker with one of my sons last night. I don't really play all that much. I found potting easy, over any distance, but break building hard. This is simply because I am not used to the game is all. It is vice versa for snooker players playing pool.

What I have found in the past is that they are great at potting. Of course. But get in a to a sticky situation and they haven't got a clue. They can only pot their way out of trouble. That knowledge can be acquired of course but there is no short-circuit.

Forgot to add that safety in snooker is much much easier too..
 
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Ask Jim Rempe about snooker............nobody from the US tried harder or practiced more on the snooker table than him. He couldnt win in Toronto , never mind the UK.........a great guy , and a great effort was put forth...........however the results speak for themselves. When intervied and asked why he finally stopped playing snooker, his simple reply was.....they are just to good. i say , if snooker is not your first discipline at a young age , your chances of being world class are slim and none...........saying that a pool player of high calibre, with little snooker experience could reach world class snooker with pratice is ludicrious.
 
Ask Jim Rempe about snooker............nobody from the US tried harder or practiced more on the snooker table than him. He couldnt win in Toronto , never mind the UK.........a great guy , and a great effort was put forth...........however the results speak for themselves. When intervied and asked why he finally stopped playing snooker, his simple reply was.....they are just to good. i say , if snooker is not your first discipline at a young age , your chances of being world class are slim and none...........saying that a pool player of high calibre, with little snooker experience could reach world class snooker with pratice is ludicrious.

I meant it the other way round. My english was poor - I hope that is clear from the fact I mentioned Appleton who swapped into this form of pool from another cue sport.
 
This issue of snooker vs pool is rubbish anyway. What about 3 cushion players? Are the worlds best at that inclined to swap to pool and what would be the result?

Is it the case that pool sees itself, openly, as the poor sibling to the other two cue sports?

Not me...
 
What about the ladies? Allison Fisher, Karen Corr, and Kelly Fisher were snooker champions and all three of them can now be counted as legends of pool.

I believe Marlon Manalo and Mika Immonen were originally snooker players, and, as we saw, snooker pro was the only person to run 100 in 14.1 on the ten footers at Derby City in January, doing it twice.

Some snooker players have succeeded at the top levels of pool, but pool players have not succeeded at the top levels of snooker.

RE Mika - here is what they play in Finland and he probably started on this - note the size of the pockets, tables , balls etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC6gbsbR9Cc&list=PLxygwjlO09IhgQXlRLC7AZbl57z6mifrw&index=1
 
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This issue of snooker vs pool is rubbish anyway. What about 3 cushion players? Are the worlds best at that inclined to swap to pool and what would be the result?

Is it the case that pool sees itself, openly, as the poor sibling to the other two cue sports?

Not me...

Been a very long time, which doesn't really mean anything tho....but harold worst (protege of Willie Hoppe) who won the 3cushion world championships in Argentina at around 21/22 yrs old moved on to pocket billiards I believe in his late 30's a handful of years b/f he died of cancer and beat the ever living snot out of every legendary pool player alive at the time except for Lassiter, as they never matched up.

Matter of fact at Johnston City they steered him into a gaff bet (well they thought it was a gaff lol) to run 40 balls into one pocket, they were all evenly spaced out across the table in a grid......Harold got up there and did just that.

Man was the king of the monsters! Died way too young.


In my opinion billiards players should be able to transition to pocket billiards very easy, for the lone reason of their very superior ball control skills wether off the collision or the angles off the rails (or both combined). I also believe that in a perfect world all pocket billiards players would learn/start with billiards first.

Wether snooker is more difficult of a transition for a pool player, or pool is more difficult of a transition for a snooker player should be about equal in difficulty.

Pool players would pick up the moves of snooker easily, and snooker players should have no problems adepting to rotation style games.....tho obviously one pocket would give them a head scratch, as it does for even the majority of pool players.

-Greyghost
 
Along the same lines here.....how about taking a new pool player and trying to decide what style to teach them...

1. Go watch Efren play and just do what he does?

2. Go watch "insert Pro snooker player here" and learn that style. I would pick Ronnie O!

Personally I did both, first the "Efren" style, and it taught me a ton, but I had too many holes in my stroke. So I blended in a "snookerish" style, and it is working just fine.

G.
 
One thing we need to take into consideration when discussing pro pool players having a go at snooker is you can't just go pop over to Manchester toss them your entry fee and have a go at the UK championships. To even get the opportunity to try you need to qualify either through Q school (a 2000 pound investment I believe), win the European Amateur Championships (Amateur being anyone who is not currently on the pro tour, so many are "pro" caliber"), win the World Amateur Championships (you need to be invited/qualify) etc. etc. In other words just getting that opportunity is a tough accomplishment in it's own right. And up until now, even if you do get on the tour you go through a qualifying process that is like winning a tournament to play a tournament. That said, more events are starting at a flat 128 draw so that makes life a bit easier.

But the point is, it's really difficult to get a fair chance even if you have the talent and the ability.

Compare that to Stuart Pettman's experience where he came over paid his entry fee and made some noise the Straight Pool challenge at the derby city. Any pro snooker player could have paid their entry fee and competed at the US Open so it makes trying out another game much easier.

If Corey Deuel wanted to try out some snooker, he would need to probably move to the UK and play the English Amateur tournaments and hope to either win the English Amateur championship or finish first on the amateur tour or qualify through the Q school events. I have no idea if he would be successful or not, it'd be better perhaps to try with someone young enough to reach the skill level required at snooker to be competitive and go through the growing pains necessary to adapt to professional play. Even Judd Trump took about 5 years I think to reach his full potential. Neil Robertson and Shaun Murphy fell off the tour on their first attempts. I wouldn't be surprised if it took about 6-8 years for a pro pool player to reach their full potential at snooker, (2-3 years or practice and competition at the amateur level and another 3-5 years before they adapt to conditions on the tour).
 
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