Speaking of which, if I was fearing for my life I think I would just say that 200K Euros would be fine, thank you, instead of laughing and saying we'll take the 300K Euros.
Snooker World No. 1 John Higgins in betting scandal
- Thread starter Buckster_uk
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Speaking of which, if I was fearing for my life I think I would just say that 200K Euros would be fine, thank you, instead of laughing and saying we'll take the 300K Euros.
It depends.
If the paper manipulated the true facts and its found to be the case, I can expect a multi-million lawsuit against the news of the world. I wouldn't put it past that paper because they have pulled such **** in the past.
In 'the guardian' it was said
I certainly think that if Higgins was to do match fixing the figure of £261,000 does seem a little low in comparison to his income of tournament winnings.
Who knows but I will reserve judgement for now...
Not really. That's like saying he was only a small thief. Which he wasn't.
I think he's saying that it wouldn't cost him his prize money if he could still win the match.
In the early 90's I found out that a player dumped a match in a tournament I put on. He was a rather well known player at the time. I confronted him on it and he wouldn't deny it. He just said it was none of my business what he did. I told him it was my business if he was playing in my event.
I never invited him back to any tournament I put on, and there were some big ones. He had several friends call me on his behalf, but I wasn't about to change my mind. He did play in some tournaments I directed, but I had no control over who got invited. He was on his best behavior too because he knew I was watching him.
Another guy got caught putting slugs in the bar tables at the U.S. Bar Table maybe 15 years ago. He apologized profusely and also tried hard to get back in. Nothing doing! I even told Mark Griffin about him when he took over the tournament.
There is only so much we can do here without an organization to mandate rules and regulations. But one thing a promoter can do is not allow someone to play, if they consider them an undesirable. If something like that happened at the U.S. Open, I bet they would also be banned for life.
Most of the dumping that has gone on that I am aware of has happened in money games, not in tournaments. By the way, deal making and "savers" are a fact of life in pro pool. You can't legislate against that. As long as both players are making an honest effort to win the match, that is all you can ask for. Even with a saver, there is a difference in dollars between winning and losing the match. They do have an incentive to win.
Yes, something funny happened one year at the Tournament of Champions. I am very much aware of that. It is one of those events that I directed. When the sports book made one player a 20-1 underdog it was too tempting for the other players. A somewhat similar situation to what was happening with Higgins but for far less money. The maximum bet at the sports book was $200, so a winning ticket was worth four grand. I asked the head of the book how much they lost, and he said there were only ten tickets for 40K total. He just laughed it off, but they never made a line again on a pool match.
I never invited him back to any tournament I put on, and there were some big ones. He had several friends call me on his behalf, but I wasn't about to change my mind. He did play in some tournaments I directed, but I had no control over who got invited. He was on his best behavior too because he knew I was watching him.
Another guy got caught putting slugs in the bar tables at the U.S. Bar Table maybe 15 years ago. He apologized profusely and also tried hard to get back in. Nothing doing! I even told Mark Griffin about him when he took over the tournament.
There is only so much we can do here without an organization to mandate rules and regulations. But one thing a promoter can do is not allow someone to play, if they consider them an undesirable. If something like that happened at the U.S. Open, I bet they would also be banned for life.
Most of the dumping that has gone on that I am aware of has happened in money games, not in tournaments. By the way, deal making and "savers" are a fact of life in pro pool. You can't legislate against that. As long as both players are making an honest effort to win the match, that is all you can ask for. Even with a saver, there is a difference in dollars between winning and losing the match. They do have an incentive to win.
Yes, something funny happened one year at the Tournament of Champions. I am very much aware of that. It is one of those events that I directed. When the sports book made one player a 20-1 underdog it was too tempting for the other players. A somewhat similar situation to what was happening with Higgins but for far less money. The maximum bet at the sports book was $200, so a winning ticket was worth four grand. I asked the head of the book how much they lost, and he said there were only ten tickets for 40K total. He just laughed it off, but they never made a line again on a pool match.
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let he who is without sin ...
hmm ... this is fascinating.
i watched the video -- guilty as sin! hang 'em!
and i read the comments, mostly hang 'em! from the highest tree!
but -- and this is a timid but? -- i asked my dad, who is an attorney. yes, even he enjoys lawyer jokes!
he reminded me of something -- what's it called? -- presumption of innocence? i don't know if it applies in britain? although when i was at university there, i seem to recall hearing of it?
my gut -- let me rephrase that infelicitous word -- my instincts still say, 'hang the so and so's!' sos, whatever is the plural of so? never mind!
just a gentle suggestion -- even though the lariat in my hand already includes a noose -- maybe i'll wait a tad before backing the horses up to the tree?
hope it's ok to introduce a meekly contrarian thought?
sunny
hmm ... this is fascinating.
i watched the video -- guilty as sin! hang 'em!
and i read the comments, mostly hang 'em! from the highest tree!
but -- and this is a timid but? -- i asked my dad, who is an attorney. yes, even he enjoys lawyer jokes!
he reminded me of something -- what's it called? -- presumption of innocence? i don't know if it applies in britain? although when i was at university there, i seem to recall hearing of it?
my gut -- let me rephrase that infelicitous word -- my instincts still say, 'hang the so and so's!' sos, whatever is the plural of so? never mind!
just a gentle suggestion -- even though the lariat in my hand already includes a noose -- maybe i'll wait a tad before backing the horses up to the tree?
hope it's ok to introduce a meekly contrarian thought?
sunny
You can bet by the frame on snooker matches at UK betting joints like BetFred.
this is the first questionI would have asked too Todd! Iwouldlike to hear this answer befor hanging the guy!
i am a strong believe ininnocent until "proven" guilty I for some reason don't buy the story and get the feeling of Tabloid journalism. It all sounds farto easy to me.
As far as Higgins looking so "cool" while these conversations were taking place, well, I truly believe that one of the secrets to obeing a champion is "fading heat" anyway. They are high profile and have learned to odeal with pressures we can hardly fathom>
The Ukraines and russians polay hard ball and are very feared all over the worl and I can only imagine how scared I would be and in kieve of all places. Their economy sucks, their government sucks, and the police are more corrupt than the WWF!
My wife said though that I am like an Arab, when someone isaccused three men must donfirm it first before I even coment on it!
ihavebeen pretty vocaloverthe years here for some being to harsh on players at tournaments for doing "Savers". Idon't see this as cheatingat all, but self preservation. In Higgins case, he no more needs saversor dumps than a man onthe moon! Ijust don't buy thisstory yet!
The question that comes tomy mind,,is this: With the nimbers these snooker people throw around and the millions to e made, why, why aren'tsome of thses young sharpshooters cncentrating on snooker. Why the hellwould you want to play 9 or 10 ball for,,nothing Vs, all those millions??
jay would probably know this better thatn I butI'm pretty sure The MIZ went to London and competed and did pretty well, finishing pretty highin one of the championships, thiking a 2nd, 3re, or 4th place finish? Ialso remember Billy Stroud going over and competing at one time! Why wouldn't more be taking a shot at this gold??
true enough, but look at what transpired afterwards. Millions changed hands then!!
Yeah, Higgins and his manager look bad in that video. Not innocent at all.
But, take a better look.
At the end when they are having a drink supposedly closing the deal, the camera is suddenly black and white? Clearly, the video has been edited. I'd like to hear ALL of the conversation, not just 3 minutes and 37 seconds. God knows what was going on with the rest of the footage. Before we pass judgment, we should at least see all of it. If John proves to be guilty then, well...so be it.
News of the World tabloid also choose perfect timing. Right when World championships final between Neil Robertson and Greame Dott is already in progress. I mean, how convenient is that if you want to discredit the whole game, not just Higgins and his manager Mooney? A wild conspiracy theory, but what if former snooker chairman Walker is behind all of this? Alter all, Higgins openly criticized former leadership of the game, supported now new leader Hearn all the way.
Yes, I'm heavily biased because I think John is the strongest snooker player out there still, a very likable down to Earth fellow...at least he seemed that way...therefore I so much want him not to be guilty. But I realize that there's always a possibility that he did in fact arrange throwing of frames...until 100% proven, I'll pray that it isn't true...
Also, I can't imagine what it will be like for John Higgins' kids at school. Their daddy sold himself for how much? Ouch! My God John...if you really did this...WHY? WHAT were you thinking?
But, take a better look.
At the end when they are having a drink supposedly closing the deal, the camera is suddenly black and white? Clearly, the video has been edited. I'd like to hear ALL of the conversation, not just 3 minutes and 37 seconds. God knows what was going on with the rest of the footage. Before we pass judgment, we should at least see all of it. If John proves to be guilty then, well...so be it.
News of the World tabloid also choose perfect timing. Right when World championships final between Neil Robertson and Greame Dott is already in progress. I mean, how convenient is that if you want to discredit the whole game, not just Higgins and his manager Mooney? A wild conspiracy theory, but what if former snooker chairman Walker is behind all of this? Alter all, Higgins openly criticized former leadership of the game, supported now new leader Hearn all the way.
Yes, I'm heavily biased because I think John is the strongest snooker player out there still, a very likable down to Earth fellow...at least he seemed that way...therefore I so much want him not to be guilty. But I realize that there's always a possibility that he did in fact arrange throwing of frames...until 100% proven, I'll pray that it isn't true...
Also, I can't imagine what it will be like for John Higgins' kids at school. Their daddy sold himself for how much? Ouch! My God John...if you really did this...WHY? WHAT were you thinking?
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banned
Is he also banned from playing in pro-pool events in the U.S?
Is he banned from posting on AZB?
This guy should come to the U.S and play amateur pool.I know a crowd he would fit right in with.
I am sorta surprised they allow betting on pool OR snooker anywhere considering how easy it is to fix matches.With team sports it usually takes 2 or more peeps on the same team to conspire to cheat.
Is he also banned from playing in pro-pool events in the U.S?
Is he banned from posting on AZB?
This guy should come to the U.S and play amateur pool.I know a crowd he would fit right in with.
I am sorta surprised they allow betting on pool OR snooker anywhere considering how easy it is to fix matches.With team sports it usually takes 2 or more peeps on the same team to conspire to cheat.
I'm sorry if this is repetition, but is anyone else confused about the starting comments when Higgins says something like "are there any cameras here?" and the one with the mangled voice says "Yes. There is one there, look into it." I'm trying to imply that there is any implications to the allegations, but it's a strange thing to say, even if jokingly, in such a conversation. The whole situation is so sensitive that I wouldn't dare say anything like that if I was the one offering the deal.
I didn't understand where you're getting at?
John says it with a humorous way, but with certain interest/alertness, and probably the best answer is to say humorously, "yes, look into it", than say smt like; "no there isn't, don't worry", as it could sound more suspicious than the humor answer, which leads John to a thought track like "how silly question".
For sure humor, when they are already that far and the tension is there, is the best way to deal. I'm sure it was somewhat premeditated also..
I know only one incidence when some thing happened in a very major tournament.I do not think that the promoter at that time knew it and he may now know about it after reading this post.It was in early 90s ( ? 1991 or 1992) Glass city open, a AAA tournament in Toledo,ohio.It was not a pro tour event but many top pros played.One retired pro dumped his first round match in order to be placed very low 'on the line ' from the 'bookie'.He then told his friend to bet on him very heavy on his second round match.Friend bet on him.He won the second round match effortlessly.'bookie' got burst from the heavy loss he incurred from that match.After that the 'bookie' closed his business and there was no one to take bets after that for the rest of the tournament.
There was another incident that happened in a pro tour event in Los Angeles in 1993 when one top ranked pro ( player A ) went to the hotel room of another top ranked pro ( Player B ) and told him that he is going to loose his match to him ( player B).But later in the match this player A instead of loosing the match he beat the player B.It was a double cross.It was a convoluted/complex situation created by this pro player A.Even the top 'bookie' in this pool business could not figure out the complexity of this matter. These two are the only incidents known to me thru first hand information.I wonder how many more are there...
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Mizerak gave it a shot and gave up. Jim Rempe tried for a couple of years to get a piece of that big money. He was in his prime and worked hard at it, even putting a 6x12 snooker table in his home. He did make it onto the main tour but never got past the round of 32. He said they just play too good for ANY pool player to have a chance of learning the game. Remember these guys started playing snooker as kids, and have many year in the game.
Even a great player like Efren or Alex couldn't cut it over there. The snooker guys are just too far advanced already, at a very difficult game. Interesting that some of them, like Tony Drago, Steve Davis and Karl Boyes among others, have been able to convert over to 9-Ball and enjoy success. Teels you which game is tougher to learn. Of course none of these snooker guys ever became a great Straight Pool or One Pocket player. At least not yet.
By the way, Rempe did win the English Eight Ball title more than once. I don't think the level of competition (or the money) was quite as high. Still quite a feat to go over there and win this title.