So Deno, whats up with Ronnie?

Celtic

AZB's own 8-ball jihadist
Silver Member
Alot of people on here said he is playing in a snooker event while the whole IPT field is in Orlando. He is listed on the website as playing in his first event in the "Orlando this winter". Does this mean before the tour even starts he is skipping an event he was invited to play in and is only going to show up in January? This is Kevin's hard stance? There are alot of top, and I mean TOP pro's that got in late entries and got told "tough luck". Now you have a guy that got invited to play in the King of the Hill, where every single member of the IPT is required to show up whether they are playing or not, and he decides to bail on it and play snooker? And this is acceptable for him?

Is he playing in the King of the Hill? He is still on the list as a player in group 2. And if he is not then how in the world are you guys hard stancing a person like Alex and yet giving Ronnie all the freedom in the world to scoff at the IPT and break its rules?

If you are going to give players graces then how about some grace to Alex P, and maybe a open invite to Ching Chia Wu, and Fong Pang Chao, Chin Shun Yang, get another fan base of oh, about 1,000,000,000 people for the IPT where this sport is already hugely popular since they can now watch two of their biggest stars. China is pressuring people NOT to play in your tour, throw money and support at some of the elite players on that side of the pond as "player development" and help them play in your tour. Basically the tour was promoted pretty poorly, no posters in any pool halls up here, no TV spots, no magazines, the internet was the only form of advertisement I saw for the IPT before the deadline. It is no wonder a whole bunch of players learned about the tour too late or did not take it seriously. They should not be punished or omitted because the IPT failed to market itself in such an important timespan. How can you expect a player in Taipai to even learn of your tour and actually apply and risk it all to join on what the IPT showed? And I dont see how limping in with a far weaker and less international field, missing many of the worlds elite players including the last 2 world 9-ball champs and the current world 9-ball AND world 8-ball champ is seen as a possitive? If I were you I would be wanting those other top 10 players who could walk over half of the IPT field in a 10 ahead set in less then 2 hours in my tour. A tour WITHOUT the premier players in it breeds questions and concern and looses alot of its legitimacy. You have some, but you are missing some key players that is really really causing your tour to look a little bit like an odd mess and that ostrasize huge portions of the world as an audience.
 
theres no Australians from the Nationals, which were just played either. IPT doesnt work with international bodies but as a solo entity.
 
I think Ronnie should be an exception to any general rules. He will generate a ton of exposure and fans worldwide of all sports would love to see him compete.

He also has a very good excuse with the premier league event ( As I recall ).
 
BlackDragon said:
theres no Australians from the Nationals, which were just played either. IPT doesnt work with international bodies but as a solo entity.
Which nationals? The English 8-ball style?
 
I understand your points and questions which you made very well.

IMO, the IPT should have a good mix of unknown/aspiring pro players as well as established champions and the like. To make compelling TV, you have to have a good mix of both and the personalities and stories that go along with each. Look at Poker, Chris Moneymaker got huge press partly due to the fact that he was an unkown qualifier. Sure, if a 'named pro' had won instead of Moneymaker then they would also have gotten a lot of press, but the ensuing boom and the now famous 'WSOP, Anyone can win' slogan is a big reason why 6000+ players competed in the WSOP in 2005. They all felt like they have a shot to win it all.

I understand that the average poker playing novice has a better shot at winning the WSOP due to the luck factor than the average pool playing novice has at winning an IPT open event (even with the much larger competitors in the poker event)...but having unknown and for the most part internationally unaccomplished players in the IPT is a very good thing. If a relative unknown was to win an IPT event in a 'Tommy Kennedy US open win' like fashion, it can only be a good thing as more and more of your lessor known players will really believe they have a shot. 'IPT, Anyone can win' has a nice ring to it.

As for Ronnie, I would guess that if IPT believes that his participation in an IPT event would draw more TV Viewers (and IMO, that is what this is all about as far as IPT is concerned) then he should be allowed play and/or be exempt from certain events if he has other commitments. With that said, should Alex & Wu be playing, IMO, absolutely. They are arguably 2 of the best pool players on the planet right now with as you have said, built in TV audiences to go along with them. All I can presume is that if the IPT is purely focusing on the US TV market right now, then having Alex and Wu playing doesn't matter either way (I know it is the International Pool Tour but up until now, it appears that the majority of the marketing and press and as far as we know, TV coverage, is focused on the USA.

I for one (along with a bunch of people on this and other forums) am very very excited about the IPT. I bought my tickets for Orlando the morning they came out and only wish I had submitted an application to play on tour. I will be attempting to qualify for next year!

I have been reading all the IPT stuff and figured I would chime in (BTW, one of the main reasons I bought my tickets for Orlando was to watch the Hall of famers and the Snooker players and I hope I get a chance to see many of both in Orlando and future IPT events)
 
Colin Colenso said:
I think Ronnie should be an exception to any general rules. He will generate a ton of exposure and fans worldwide of all sports would love to see him compete.

He also has a very good excuse with the premier league event ( As I recall ).

And Alex Pagulayan would not? Or Wu Chia Ching? There should not be special treatment to certain people in this thing before the first official event even plays. And what Ronnie is doing is a slight to the IPT and pool fans world wide. The IPT took a VERY hard stance with Alex and other top pro's who applied late, and now with Ronnie they are doing a complete 180 and letting him make the IPT look second rate to the Premier league event.
 
Celtic said:
And Alex Pagulayan would not? Or Wu Chia Ching? There should not be special treatment to certain people in this thing before the first official event even plays. And what Ronnie is doing is a slight to the IPT and pool fans world wide. The IPT took a VERY hard stance with Alex and other top pro's who applied late, and now with Ronnie they are doing a complete 180 and letting him make the IPT look second rate to the Premier league event.
Sure, if I were KT I'd want Alex and Wu Chia Ching in the mix also. I think it's fair they be pushed through with preference if the opportunity presents itself.

With Alex, I think it's likely, with Wu Chia Ching he has the WPBA (or more accurately the Chinese Taiwan Billiards Association) to deal with so it may not be so easy.

I don't know all the goings on, but I think it's fair that the organizer and funder can call the shots as best suits his business. If those choices reek of hypocricy or garner broad criticism, then it makes sense to adjust to the most sensible balance.
 
English eightball. I think so. They call it 'world rules'. The Australian Nationals are played between the different states in Australia. Teams events ; womens and mens ; and singles as well as Masters events.
Theres the top Australian players there but theyre not IPT.
Maybe some of them may be hearing of IPT but most of them have no connection or knowledge or understanding of IPT proceedure. They don't know about it. So its like International Pool T legitimately has a connection to those to those people if it is to legitimatise itself. Mavericks are playing for Australia in the IPT and thats ok as its a maverick code.
 
BlackDragon said:
English eightball. I think so. They call it 'world rules'. The Australian Nationals are played between the different states in Australia. Teams events ; womens and mens ; and singles as well as Masters events.
Theres the top Australian players there but theyre not IPT.
Maybe some of them may be hearing of IPT but most of them have no connection or knowledge or understanding of IPT proceedure. They don't know about it. So its like International Pool T legitimately has a connection to those to those people if it is to legitimatise itself. Mavericks are playing for Australia in the IPT and thats ok as its a maverick code.
I used to play in those nationals.

The 8-ball is quite a bit different but the patterns and abilities are quite transferable. Players like Sean Budd, Phil Reilly, Emile Rierra and Alex Everanaides have played this game at the top levels and also done quite well on US table games.

It does take some practice. The NSW players play on similar equipment and can transfer pretty easily.

There are several good Australian reps on the IPT including Quinten Hann and Johl Younger who are proven 8-ball players on both table formats.
 
As I have stated before, I am actually agreeing that it would be bad form and set a bad precedence to let Ronnie play elsewhere, then welcome him back with open arms to the first event. I don't think they want a double standard, because I know they certainly wouldn't hold MY place if I did that!

Even if the first alternate is Alex, I don't feel that he should jump over all the other players and scoot right into the KOH tournament, even based on his playing ability, but select from one of the other 107 members, and have Alex sit in the audience. The first pick would probably be Santos. Alex would then be eligible to play starting in January. JMHO.

It may all be a moot point...Ronnie may be playing in the IPT after all. We don't know yet. Even the big money he would be able to win in the snooker world pales beside the possible income generated over the next year (or 2) in the IPT.
 
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Celtic said:
And Alex Pagulayan would not? Or Wu Chia Ching? There should not be special treatment to certain people in this thing before the first official event even plays. And what Ronnie is doing is a slight to the IPT and pool fans world wide. The IPT took a VERY hard stance with Alex and other top pro's who applied late, and now with Ronnie they are doing a complete 180 and letting him make the IPT look second rate to the Premier league event.

IMO, having no real rules other than the owner's whims, leaves the whole tourny open to manipulation, if it can be called a tourny.
It does make sense.

Gabber
 
I don't know all the goings on, but I think it's fair that the organizer and funder can call the shots as best suits his business.

Should that include who plays and who plays who?



Gabber
 
One thing no one has mentioned is prior commitments. I don't know what the timetable was but the IPT event date was only recently announced and it could be that Ronnie had committed to the Premier League Final before the IPT date was announced. If the Premier League event was on the schedule before the IPT then it would be fair to give Ronnie a pass for not attending the Invitational. Now, if Ronnie committed to the Invitational and then backed out he ought to be held to the same standard as every other player.

John
 
I do not think Alex P. not being in this month's IPT is a form of "hardstancing"
on the part of the IPT and it is not fair to accuse IPT of being unfair to him.
Alex has committed to play for the Philippines in the 2005 Southeast Asian Games which happens to coincide with the IPT schedule. This commitment was made even before KT announced the formation of the IPT. Alex had a choice to opt out of the SEA Games to play in the IPT instead. That he chose to play for RP (a long-expressed desire of his) shows his priority. Had the tournaments been on different schedules, I am very sure Alex would not miss the chance to play in both.

Just to set the records straight.
 
RED NAXELA said:
Just to set the records straight.

Are you sure that Alex did not apply for the IPT late and get rejected due to the late app? That Alex simply "chose" to skip the IPT I dont believe and I am hard pressed to think you have that intimate the knowledge that you can state what you said so boldly.

I would be more inclined to think he applied late to the IPT, did not get chosen based on that fact, and is now playing in the SEA Games because he has nothing better to do because most of his peers will be in the IPT.

KT said himself many of the premier players in the world were rejected because they applied after the deadline.
 
To Celtic:

Alex long-expressed desire to play for the Philippines is a fact, because he has stated it publicly many times.

Whether or not he applied with IPT even after committing to play in the SEA Games because (1) he would have opted to play in the IPT if his application was approved, OR (2) he just wanted to signal to KT that he was not snubbing the IPT and he would play in his tour afterward, ONLY Alex really knows.
 
I find it interesting that so much has been assumed on this issue. The truth is this- the King of the Hill is an "invitational" event meaning that we issued invitations to those players who we wanted to play in this event. It is a smaller event that does not include all the IPT player members. Ronnie was invited, and there is a chance that he will qualify to play in a snooker event, which we knew, even at the time of the invitation. The qualification process for that snooker tournament meant that he would have to beat several people heads up and if he did that, then he would be under contract to play. If he ends up not being able to play becuase of an existing contract, then the spot will go to one of the remaining IPT tour members who will be in attendence in Orlando.

As far as Alex P., his not being chosen to play on tour had absolutely nothing to do with his interest to play in the SEA games, but rather for the very simple fact that he did not turn in an application on time. It is that simple. Anything that is said contrary to this fact is just not true.

Deno Andrews
 
Deno J. Andrews said:
As far as Alex P., his not being chosen to play on tour had absolutely nothing to do with his interest to play in the SEA games, but rather for the very simple fact that he did not turn in an application on time. It is that simple. Anything that is said contrary to this fact is just not true.

Deno Andrews


Curious then, if you could let us know. Did he turn in a "late" application?
 
Celtic said:
Curious then, if you could let us know. Did he turn in a "late" application?

Um, wouldn't that be the same thing as having "not turned his application in on time."?

John
 
It sounds like the IPT has alot of growing pains to go through....People have to understand if things are done on the fly, like it sounds with the IPT, then there are going to be problems with scheduling conflicts and such. Also some have stated that things aren't being clarified and that the IPT is changing rules as it sees fit. I'm sure somewhere there are rules in writing, RIGHT?
________
 
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