So here's a weird one. Ever see a "lag cue"?

FYI, the formula is: F = m * a
not: F = m * a^2

Maybe you are thinking about kinetic energy: KE = 1/2 * m * v^2

What determines CB speed is the "momentum" of the cue (mass * speed). There is an optimal cue weight for each individual. It is not a simple physics question. It also involves physiology. For more info, see the optimal cue weight resource page.

Regards,
Dave

Thanks for the help Dave.

It's been nearly 40 years since I've actually used those formulas & I've hardly ever tried to explain them. I was thinking velocity squared & somehow got onto accleration which is simply a change in velocity.

Thanks again.

Best Regards & Wishes,
Rick
 
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I can't think of any benefit of using a much lighter cue for lagging; although, varying the tip position can have a real effect. For more info, see the lag shot resource page.

Now, if the cue were even lighter (say 3 oz), it would be very useful for avoiding double hits when there is a small gap between the CB and OB (when a straight hit is required). If the cue is lighter than the CB, the cue would bounce back from the CB (although, you would still need to be careful to limit follow through which would counter this effect). Luckily, there are other effective methods for avoiding double hits (per the videos at the bottom of the double hit resource page).

Regards,
Dave

Dave,

Here's my take on it from one that has always preferred & used a 15 to 17.5 oz cue & as I've said have played with & broken with several very light cues in the 12 oz. range.

To me, the lighter cue allows me to use a wider range of motion at a speed that puts less force onto the ball than the same motion & speed would with a heavy cue.

For me it is more difficult to use a shorter or slower stroke as would be needed with the heavier cue to both be accurate & control the force.

I can always ramp up the lighter cue but it is more difficult, for me, to tone down the heavier cue.

As you said there is physiology involved. I personally feel that there is an advantage to being able to let one's stroke out a bit rather then to have to hem it in.

As it will always be, to each his own.

All the Best,
Rick
 
In a more practical sense this discussion was about a "Lag" cue.

So why would I want to increase the force for such a cue?

Now a break cue on the other hand is a whole other matter.

Neil's comment hit the nail on the head IMHO. What ever the weight of your cue, you have to learn to control your stroke to achieve the result you want.

You cannot lag well with a 19 oz cue......work on the skill before you buy a special lag cue that "hits a ton" (Thanks to Icon for his post)

The thread took a turn with some individuals mocking the use of a light weight cue for the purpose of lagging.

I made a rather feable attempt to point out that a lighter weight cue can have other advantages for certain individuals like 'hitting a ton' for the break shot as I eluded to in my post that I did rather well with a 12 oz. bar cue.
 
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The thread took a turn with some individuals mocking the use of a light weight cue for the purpose of lagging.

I made a rather feable attempt to point out that a lighter weight cue can have other advantages for certain individuals like 'hitting a ton' forshot the break as I eluded to in my post that I did rather well with a 12 oz. bar cue.

It's not so much a lightweight cue... it's the fact of a particular cue... specifically for lagging...

and yes... a lightweight cue is nice for breaking... but a 10oz?

And in regards to you breaking well with a 12oz bar cue... that's nice and all but is this the weight of your current break cue? If not, why not? Remember the lightning bolt break cue about 6 years ago? You don't see much about that anymore, hell you didnt see that much when it came out. That was 12oz.
 
It's not so much a lightweight cue... it's the fact of a particular cue... specifically for lagging...

and yes... a lightweight cue is nice for breaking... but a 10oz?

And in regards to you breaking well with a 12oz bar cue... that's nice and all but is this the weight of your current break cue? If not, why not? Remember the lightning bolt break cue about 6 years ago? You don't see much about that anymore, hell you didnt see that much when it came out. That was 12oz.

Hi Icon,

I hear what you are saying but keep in mind that golfers did not always carry 14 clubs & then they started to carry too many clubs, so the 14 club rule was put in. Gene Sarazen invented a specialty club called the sand iron. What would golfers do without one today?

No, my break/jump cue is not 12 oz. but it is 17 oz. I like it to be very nearly the same as the cue that I play with for a couple of reasons.

I just always try to keep an open mind. There was a day when nearly everyone said that the 'world' was flat. We know what happened to that very popular belief & opinion. At that time it was both religious & scientific heresy to even say anything different.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick
 
Maybe you were reading a different thread than I was but I don't recall anyone mocking the use of a light weight cue for lagging. People were expressing their opinions of a lag cue in general.

I am of the opinion that you need to practice the skill to do it well, not make excuses that the cue is too light or heavy for me to lag with.

Now that we know how well you broke with a 12 oz bar cue, how well do you lag, and do you have a special cue for lagging?

I suspect you must lag fairly well, considering how long you have been playing, any tips you could share would be appreciated.





The thread took a turn with some individuals mocking the use of a light weight cue for the purpose of lagging.

I made a rather feable attempt to point out that a lighter weight cue can have other advantages for certain individuals like 'hitting a ton' for the break shot as I eluded to in my post that I did rather well with a 12 oz. bar cue.
 
If you can't control the speed with your regular cue for the lag, you can't control the speed needed for the rest of the game.

I completely agree with this logic, and I won't even play 1pkt.
 
Maybe you were reading a different thread than I was but I don't recall anyone mocking the use of a light weight cue for lagging. People were expressing their opinions of a lag cue in general.

I am of the opinion that you need to practice the skill to do it well, not make excuses that the cue is too light or heavy for me to lag with.

Now that we know how well you broke with a 12 oz bar cue, how well do you lag, and do you have a special cue for lagging?

I suspect you must lag fairly well, considering how long you have been playing, any tips you could share would be appreciated.

Tony,

Please check your green rep.

Rick
 
So it looks like this was just something imaginary that the author came up with,
and who knows if even HE tried using it.

I think neil nailed it, a cue you use once per set won't have the familiarity and control as a cue you use
virtually every single shot.
 
Who knows, one thing I do know is to get better at a lag you have to practice your speed control.

In the game of one pocket, lag speed shots come up with regularity.


So it looks like this was just something imaginary that the author came up with,
and who knows if even HE tried using it.

I think neil nailed it, a cue you use once per set won't have the familiarity and control as a cue you use
virtually every single shot.
 
Hi Icon,

I hear what you are saying but keep in mind that golfers did not always carry 14 clubs & then they started to carry too many clubs, so the 14 club rule was put in. Gene Sarazen invented a specialty club called the sand iron. What would golfers do without one today?

No, my break/jump cue is not 12 oz. but it is 17 oz. I like it to be very nearly the same as the cue that I play with for a couple of reasons.

I just always try to keep an open mind. There was a day when nearly everyone said that the 'world' was flat. We know what happened to that very popular belief & opinion. At that time it was both religious & scientific heresy to even say anything different.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

In regards to your sand wedge analogy, I look at that more along the lines of a jump cue. Im a golfer too and I'm in the beach a lot, so I use my sandwedge to get out. Im a bad poolplayer so I hook myself a lot and use my jump cue for good contact.

With the golfers bag there are 14 clubs but the player could have the opportunity to use all 14 of those clubs more then once.

With a lag cue you will be using this cue just to lag... once, in a set, and a lag is nothing but hitting the cueball into the rail. Hell I know I can do that with my playing cue. LOL.

I really dont see a need for a pool player to have more then 3 cues when playing pool. Playing, break, jump.

Thanks for the civil argument :)
 
In regards to your sand wedge analogy, I look at that more along the lines of a jump cue. Im a golfer too and I'm in the beach a lot, so I use my sandwedge to get out. Im a bad poolplayer so I hook myself a lot and use my jump cue for good contact.

With the golfers bag there are 14 clubs but the player could have the opportunity to use all 14 of those clubs more then once.

With a lag cue you will be using this cue just to lag... once, in a set, and a lag is nothing but hitting the cueball into the rail. Hell I know I can do that with my playing cue. LOL.

I really dont see a need for a pool player to have more then 3 cues when playing pool. Playing, break, jump.

Thanks for the civil argument :)

Icon,

You are more than welcome to a civil 'discussion'.

My point is that times change & we should maintain an open mind.

Heck, Earl would prefer that jump cues would not even be legal.
One pocket has come up. There are many shots that are similar to a lag, so the cue could have more than just one purpose.

Personally, I have a number of shafts that I would prefer to use for different games, one for one pocket & a different one for 9 or 10 ball. But there are one pocket type shots in 9 & 10 ball & there are 9 & 10 ball type shots that come up in one pocket. Having two different cues might be advantageous.

If SBV comes out with a combo lag/break/jump cue & it's 13 oz. & he starts winning EVERY lag & breaking even better than he is now & he starts using it for certain shots during the game & he wins even more & more easily than he does now & he says that the cue just makes them all easier, then what?

Roy Hoobs had 'his' bat but it broke. He told the bat boy, 'Go pick me out a good one Bobby.' If one has a high talent level the implement does not really make THAT much difference BUT one would certainly like to have what is more comfortable & perhaps makes the task at hand a bit easier to accomplish well. I know, the Natural was just a movie.

Bobby Jones never liked his 7 iron. When technology was able to analyse the clubs they found that the 7 iron's shaft was different than all of the rest. The point is he could feel it. He probably hit some shots with his 6 or 8 iron because of that fact, when he should have hit the 7 iron. Did those shots come off as well as if his 7 iron's shaft had matched & he had hit those shot with a matched 7 iron? I don't know but I'd bet he had wished that that 7 iron had matched the others.

Phil Milkelson sometimes carries four wedges. He can hit all of the different shots with any one of them but each one makes a certain shot a bit easier to hit & gets better results more consistently with out him having to change the force of his swing & use as much feel for each of those shots. He did a similar thing once where he carried two drivers, one for a fade & one for draw. He can hit a fade & a draw with one driver but those made hitting the one it was designed for easier to do with the same swing.

Personally, I think & feel that playing with different cues from time to time helps enhance one's ability to fine tune & enhance one's feel.

Will different cues for different shots ever replace the need for a good stroke & feel? No.

But if employed properly, different cues could make certain shots a bit easier to get very good results without having to make as much or as many modifications dependent on feel.

I am not a mechanical player, I am very much a feel player but I don't want a 25 oz. cue to hit a delicate shot. I'd much rather have a 15 oz. cue. But if all I have is the 25 oz. cue I will do the best that can with it.

As it always will be, it is up to each individual & everyone should make their own determinations.

I just think everyone should keep an open mind.

Sorry for the rant Icon. All of that is not directed toward you. I was just speaking in general.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick
 
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If SBV comes out with a combo lag/break/jump cue & it's 13 oz. & he starts winning EVERY lag & breaking even better than he is now & he starts using it for certain shots during the game & he wins even more & more easily than he does now & he says that the cue just makes them all easier, then what?
Shane is easily my favorite player... and he is essentially already doing the above except with cuetecs. I'm definitely not buying one. :)
 
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