So what do you do when you are playing this guy

Be in control!!!

To the OP, this is a good topic to discuss.

I can tell you what I do but it doesn't work for everyone. I try and take ownership of everything at the table, if they fluke then its my fault for letting get back to the table etc things like that.

So when it comes to someone who plays very slowly and goes safe all the time, there are two points that enter my head:-

1) I am happy to see them playing safe rather than taking on a pot. This shows either respect or lack of confidence on their part. Either way I will take control and turn whatever negatives run through their head into a + for me.

2) If they cannot pot a straight shot I really don't like their chances at getting safe all the time. If they play the safe right they are perfect, but if they get it wrong you are left on. If they cannot pot a ball and control just the cueball, then what chance have they got when they have to use pace, cueball control AND object ball control.

I like my odds much better against someone like this, they can take as much time as they want, they are accommodating me at the end of the day.

Something to consider from the world of Chess - Vladmir Kramnik took 40 minutes to make one move in his World Championship Match against Vishy Anand. I'll spare you the chess detail and just say that he made a critical mistake on that move. There are studies which have been done which show the optimal time for thinking and any thinking past that point results in fatigue and poor choices being made.

Moral of the story - if someone spends 5 minutes doing what should be thought about within 30 seconds, they will make loads of mistakes. You absolutely cannot use someone playing slow as a valid excuse for affecting you mentally and losing the match.

For anyone who's interested, I'm 28 and only got 3 1/2 years of cuesport experience, and have Autism. If I can learn to cope effectively, I'm pretty sure most of you can as well :-)
 
doitforthegame said:
You are playing in a tournament. You won a couple, maybe even three matches. You are feeling good, shooting loose and know you can make everything. Then you draw the "Human Glacier". This guy will not take any chances and plays safe after safe. Worse he takes five minutes thinking of each one. You sit there and stew as you cannot believe he won't take the long shot on the 5. If he makes it he would just have stop shots to the 9.

Got to admit I don't have the patience for this guy. That's why I never fared very well in one pocket. I could watch it (my favorite- Ginky and Larry Lisciotti at Country Club) but never play it because, well, I'm just too damn impatient.

I suppose the answer is you have to adapt or lose, but how do you internally handle this guy?

Bob
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If this guy is really taking that long to shoot, then you have to involve the tournament director. You have to excuse yourself from the table and ask the TD to watch the match. If it's too slow, he should warn your opponent or put the match on a time clock.

The TD has an obligation to keep the tournament moving and on time. He also has an obligation to protect his tournament players from shark moves, like intentional slow play or constant safety play.

Even if your opponent doesn't mean to intentionally shark you, he is obstructing the timely flow of the tournament and needs to either change his tactics or to not play.
 
One more army bump for Mr Mindula and for the endless stroke !!!!
:wink::wink::wink:
And for the slow train too !!!
 
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doitforthegame said:
You are playing in a tournament. You won a couple, maybe even three matches. You are feeling good, shooting loose and know you can make everything. Then you draw the "Human Glacier". This guy will not take any chances and plays safe after safe. Worse he takes five minutes thinking of each one. You sit there and stew as you cannot believe he won't take the long shot on the 5. If he makes it he would just have stop shots to the 9.

Got to admit I don't have the patience for this guy. That's why I never fared very well in one pocket. I could watch it (my favorite- Ginky and Larry Lisciotti at Country Club) but never play it because, well, I'm just too damn impatient.

I suppose the answer is you have to adapt or lose, but how do you internally handle this guy?

Bob
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I have played "this guy" many times at 1pocket and 14.1 tournaments.

Of course, if it's for recreation or money, you have the choice of simply not playing and basically I choose not to engage slow players when I have a vote. But at a tournament you have no control over whom you play, so you must put yourself into a Zen-like mind set and just be at peace with whatever is going on. That's really the best way I can put it -- you just have to go in knowing that slow play may happen and, if it does, you're going to be OK with it. Any other mindset will only take you out of your game.

Funny thing is, when you just impassively watch the slow guy for as long as he takes, it has been my experience that when you just sit and watch a slow player, like a great silent Buddha, it starts to bother *them* and they become self-conscious and fook up :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
14.1 should be forbidden for endless stroke guys!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
However,if guys of these kind agreed on you to make you all costs you had and give you back funds you spent playing to him these three,four days,it would be ok.Of course plus 125$ for daily allowance.
:smile::smile::smile:
You can't eat cake and have it too !!!!
 
This guy made it as far into the tournament as you because he doesnt take chances and knows when to play a safe.
 
Baxter said:
If you're not worried about him cheating, don't watch. Occupy your mind with something else when you aren't at the table. Get your phone out and play candy crush or something. Check out the hot chick in the crowd. When I was playing golf in college, there was a lot of downtime in between shots. You had to learn how to switch on and off, or you'd be mentally burned out by the end of your 5 hour round if you were constantly "on".
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Was expecting more suggestions on this line. A smartphone's great for killing tremendous
amounts of time. For me it's WWF but there's other options including surfing AZ.
Maybe older players haven't discovered the joy of phone gaming or look down on it.

In a more serious match I try to keep the phone off and stay in pool mode,
and what helps me is to imagine everything that could possibly go wrong for my opponent.
I mentally jinx them a hundred different ways.
"I bet he gets on the wrong side of the 5 here. If he does he's screwed."
"Nobody ever hits this shot hard enough, he's definitely gonna be stuck on the rail next."
"If he undercuts this it's gonna completely sell out."
 
I absolutely can't stand slow play. By slow, I'm not talking about someone that takes a some time to plan their out and moves methodically around the table, pausing between shots to assess the situation. There's nothing wrong with that, and there's probably something to be learned from the really strong players that don't look like they are in a hurry. The players I'm talking about are the ones that appear to be considering the implications of general relativity on each shot before even getting behind the cue ball. Given the choice, I simply won't play with this sort of player. Pool is something I do for fun, and playing against such an opponent is just not fun, no matter how good they play. If I'm not winning, I like to at least be able to watch and appreciate what my opponent is doing.

The fact is, you're going to run into these people from time to time in tournament or league situations, and there's often nothing you can do about it. Even when there are rules that could be enforced, it's usually not worth the hassle. However, once you have noticed that your opponent is playing slow, the thought is not just going to go away, so it's no use just telling yourself to ignore it. Here are a few things that seem to help me in these situations:
  1. Avoid the temptation to compensate by playing faster or more aggressively than normal. In particular, take your time approaching the table when it's your turn. Wait for your opponent to get completely out of the way, pause for a couple seconds, then approach the table. Charging the table and rushing your shot is just what your opponent wants to see you do.
  2. Use your irritation with your opponents style of play to cultivate an acceptable level of disdain for your opponent. Instead of thinking that you're being sharked, think "look at this idiot that has no clue what he's doing."
  3. Remind yourself that you're not stuck playing this person all night. Take care of business and move on.
  4. This is not always an option, but if you can, make sure you have attended to all your physical needs. If you are rested, not hungry (not full either), etc., you won't be irritated as easily.
 
Matt said:
I absolutely can't stand slow play. By slow, I'm not talking about someone that takes a some time to plan their out and moves methodically around the table, pausing between shots to assess the situation. There's nothing wrong with that, and there's probably something to be learned from the really strong players that don't look like they are in a hurry. The players I'm talking about are the ones that appear to be considering the implications of general relativity on each shot before even getting behind the cue ball. Given the choice, I simply won't play with this sort of player. Pool is something I do for fun, and playing against such an opponent is just not fun, no matter how good they play. If I'm not winning, I like to at least be able to watch and appreciate what my opponent is doing.

The fact is, you're going to run into these people from time to time in tournament or league situations, and there's often nothing you can do about it. Even when there are rules that could be enforced, it's usually not worth the hassle. However, once you have noticed that your opponent is playing slow, the thought is not just going to go away, so it's no use just telling yourself to ignore it. Here are a few things that seem to help me in these situations:
  1. Avoid the temptation to compensate by playing faster or more aggressively than normal. In particular, take your time approaching the table when it's your turn. Wait for your opponent to get completely out of the way, pause for a couple seconds, then approach the table. Charging the table and rushing your shot is just what your opponent wants to see you do.
  2. Use your irritation with your opponents style of play to cultivate an acceptable level of disdain for your opponent. Instead of thinking that you're being sharked, think "look at this idiot that has no clue what he's doing."
  3. Remind yourself that you're not stuck playing this person all night. Take care of business and move on.
  4. This is not always an option, but if you can, make sure you have attended to all your physical needs. If you are rested, not hungry (not full either), etc., you won't be irritated as easily.
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You hit it on the head with point 1. That is exactly what I do. Good suggestion. I'll do that next time. Between what you and Lou recommend I think I might be able to solve my issue. And Creedo- yes, us old people know all about electronics. I actually did send some text while I was playing yesterday. But you are right, it does take your mind out of the game.

Next thing I have to work on is why I get knocked out tournaments in the money round. Happened last 5 tournaments.
 
Bob Dixon said:
Guess why I'm not going to bother reading your Personal Message. Next time, do the adults a favor and put your race "jokes" in the NPR section.
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Your choice. However, regardless of the content of the post and humor or not, the forums are open and available to everyone. Addressing slow play in a hypothetical situation leaves the subject open to any response. NPR is for Non Pool Related topics. I only venture there when the topic is appropriate and not pool related.

So, what do you do when you are playing this guy? Nothing. When he misses. I can shoot. I learned that 45 years ago. Adults included.
 
Seems like 2 issues to me.. 1 the guy is making it tough on you not taking chances and 2 he is playing slow doing it..

Already a bunch of answers on 2 but as for the making it tough part I think most people that don't play A speed should actually play more matches this way. The job at hand in a match is to win and to do that I don't want to give them a good starting shot if I don't have to. I also know that it seems to bother a lot of guys which brings in more checkmarks in the W column.

Watching league pool for a few years I saw way too many people shooting pool during a match rather than playing to win.

On the higher end level I always thought Bartram (sp?) seemed to always make it tough on his opposition.
 
If I'm in a tourney as your post indicates, I call over the director and ask to be put on a shot clock. Of course that means you will be on the clock as well. As for the style of play (playing a lot of safeties), there isn't much you can do about that as it is perfectly legal.
 
I used to really hate playing players like this. Now I like it. The best way to beat them is to slow them down. Avoid the temptation to run out when you get a chance. Play some safes back and get ball in hand from them. Then run out. And play safe if you can't get out.

These players are used to (count on, in fact) having other players off their game and frustrated. If you think about slowing them down and frustrating them even more...well, then you get them off their game.

It's something nobody ever does to them and they have no idea how to respond.

Since I know they are going to play safe more, I'll try to move balls around while I play safe so that when I do get BIH I can make the most of it.

Another factor is that they have a reputation for slow play. So if you slow them down even more, the sometimes will get self-conscious that they will be blamed for the match taking so long. And they will because if you don't have a reputation for slow play, everybody will just assume they are the reason the match took so long.

Another benefit from a Machiavellian standpoint is that if you are in a match that takes a long time to finish, especially later in a tournament. There is a good chance your next opponent will be on ice waiting for the match to finish. Meanwhile you will be calm and relaxed and have had a chance to practice your safety play. And chomping at the bit to let the big dog eat a bit. So it's a great opportunity to catch your next opponent napping and jump out to a good lead.
 
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