SO, Whats your thoughts on the JB Case Video?

JB Cases said:
Many companies compare products in side by side lists.

Companies routinely send their competitor's products to the lab to test the claims the other product makes.
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I understand the need for comparison and personally I love to research things to get the best product for my money. What I failed to see in the video was a comparison though. I saw how a cue can damage a JJ case if dropped in a certain way. But I never saw how a JB case stands up in the same situation. That would be like Samsonite dropping a competitors suitcase off a 2 story building filled with rocks and watching it crash and break open. Then explaining why theres are better without doing the same test. I mean what would dropping the first one prove?
With Pepsi vs Coke, they take a sip of each and tell which one they like best? Even infomercials know better. They will at least drop the same amount of red wine on two white shirts to compare their ultimate stain away products.
I would like to see some realistic tests done to compare both or all cases while cues are in it. Maybe drop them down a flight of stairs, or knock them off a table onto a cement floor, or drop them into a puddle of water. Basically a scenario that could happen. Then see how the cues hold up along with the case.
 
JB Cases said:
Well,

Like I said I am not an engineer or a physicist. But I sort of did remember something about objects falling at the same rate of speed. Turns out the trusty internet has provided me with some reading that seems to show that the speed of the falling cue is the same whether it's dropped from four feet or two feet. Or at least the difference is so minute as not to matter.

So perhaps it's best if you stay "outta here" if your contributions are going to be of this sort where you make a statement that seems like you know what you are talking about but in fact you don't.

This website is where I got this information - it might help you to read it

http://electron9.phys.utk.edu/phys135d/modules/m2/Freefall.htm

Now I haven't found what effect the mass of the case might have on this test as opposed to just the cue. As well there are other variables to consider. I will settle though for using what I have and finding a way to properly cushion the top that I can show works for our cases and that will be enough.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_velocity

http://www.regentsprep.org/regents/physics/phys01/terminal/default.htm

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/termv.html

Terminal velocity. Velocity is much different when you have (in your example) an object that only accelerates over 1 inch vs. 4 feet.

Higher velocity of the same mass/object = higher energy at impact.

*Edit- the energy at impact increases EXPONENTIALLY with increased velocity

Eric >wishes I nvr engaged this nut job
 
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rburgoyne said:
I understand the need for comparison and personally I love to research things to get the best product for my money. What I failed to see in the video was a comparison though. I saw how a cue can damage a JJ case if dropped in a certain way. But I never saw how a JB case stands up in the same situation. That would be like Samsonite dropping a competitors suitcase off a 2 story building filled with rocks and watching it crash and break open. Then explaining why theres are better without doing the same test. I mean what would dropping the first one prove?
With Pepsi vs Coke, they take a sip of each and tell which one they like best? Even infomercials know better. They will at least drop the same amount of red wine on two white shirts to compare their ultimate stain away products.
I would like to see some realistic tests done to compare both or all cases while cues are in it. Maybe drop them down a flight of stairs, or knock them off a table onto a cement floor, or drop them into a puddle of water. Basically a scenario that could happen. Then see how the cues hold up along with the case.
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That was in today's video. I rectified that oversight.

And I like all the ideas you suggested and will figure out how to do it.

John
 
Eric. said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_velocity

http://www.regentsprep.org/regents/physics/phys01/terminal/default.htm

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/termv.html

Terminal velocity. Velocity is much different when you have (in your example) an object that only accelerates over 1 inch vs. 4 feet.

Higher velocity of the same mass/object = higher energy at impact.


Eric >wishes I nvr engaged this nut job
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So just tell us what the difference in speed would be? What is the mass of a case plus cue vs. just the cue?

If all you are going to do is send me links to counter my link then it's apparent that you really don't know much more about it than I do.

One inch? So if I drop the case with the cue in it then cue is not accelerating at the same time as the case? Seems to me, and again I could be wrong, that the case hits the floor and the cue hits the lid and there is a lot of energy there.

But the point is that I did do the test with cases and the results were posted.

And for the record you're a jerkoff Eric. And if you want to try your punching trick on someone closer to your age instead of sucker punching an old man then show up at the SBE and insult me to my face. You can find me easily enough.

You have nothing constructive to offer so feel free to listen to your instincts and get out of this thread.
 
JB Cases said:
So just tell us what the difference in speed would be? What is the mass of a case plus cue vs. just the cue?
look, instead of the mental gymnastics, i was suggesting that your test is not accurate. You insist that it is, but in the same breath, you say you "don't know anything about physics". YOU figure it out, someone has just pointed you in the right direction.

If all you are going to do is send me links to counter my link then it's apparent that you really don't know much more about it than I do.
You are the only one that believes that

One inch? So if I drop the case with the cue in it then cue is not accelerating at the same time as the case? Seems to me, and again I could be wrong, that the case hits the floor and the cue hits the lid and there is a lot of energy there.
Once again, the proof is in the pudding. You should have used a real case with a butt in it instead of your half witted experiment.

But the point is that I did do the test with cases and the results were posted.


And for the record you're a jerkoff Eric. And if you want to try your punching trick on someone closer to your age instead of sucker punching an old man then show up at the SBE and insult me to my face. You can find me easily enough.

You have nothing constructive to offer so feel free to listen to your instincts and get out of this thread.
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John, I could care less about punching you but if you feel the need, YOU have an open invite to find me and sucker punch ME. I'll handle the rest.


Eric >like I said; NUTJOB
 
rburgoyne said:
I understand the need for comparison and personally I love to research things to get the best product for my money. What I failed to see in the video was a comparison though. I saw how a cue can damage a JJ case if dropped in a certain way. But I never saw how a JB case stands up in the same situation. That would be like Samsonite dropping a competitors suitcase off a 2 story building filled with rocks and watching it crash and break open. Then explaining why theres are better without doing the same test. I mean what would dropping the first one prove?
With Pepsi vs Coke, they take a sip of each and tell which one they like best? Even infomercials know better. They will at least drop the same amount of red wine on two white shirts to compare their ultimate stain away products.
I would like to see some realistic tests done to compare both or all cases while cues are in it. Maybe drop them down a flight of stairs, or knock them off a table onto a cement floor, or drop them into a puddle of water. Basically a scenario that could happen. Then see how the cues hold up along with the case.
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The "drop test" was stemmed on the fact that it shouldn't matter which way you put your cues in a justis case as there is wood on both ends(one plain wood and the other covered w/ leather) and as JACK JUSTIS stated that you can damage your cues by putting them in the wrong way. So what JB was trying to prove was that it doesn't matter which way you put your cues in a Justis case, they can be damaged(according to Jack Justis notice he is sending out with his cases).

I don't think JB is trying to impliment that his cases offer any more protection than any other case in the "drop test". I believe he was just trying to make a point.

As for comparisons, the one that really got me was how the cues at the bottom of a Justis can come in contact with each other and also when the cues are passed the top portion of the dividers in a Justis case(like when a case is turned upside down and the cues are resting on the top of the case), there is a possibility that they can come in contact with each other there too. Not saying that damage can be caused, just saying that contact can be made.
 
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Eric. said:
John, I could care less about punching you but if you feel the need, YOU have an open invite to find me and sucker punch ME. I'll handle the rest.


Eric >like I said; NUTJOB
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No, between us you are the only one who has a history of ambushing a person and assaulting them over internet arguments.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Cases View Post
So just tell us what the difference in speed would be? What is the mass of a case plus cue vs. just the cue?
look, instead of the mental gymnastics, i was suggesting that your test is not accurate. You insist that it is, but in the same breath, you say you "don't know anything about physics". YOU figure it out, someone has just pointed you in the right direction.
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You say it's not accurate. Accurate in what sense? I arbitrarily chose a height to drop from and dropped the same cue from the same height onto different surfaces. If I change the height the resulting damage may be more or less but it will still be there. And from the quick research on the subject it appears as if the difference in speed of the cue between four feet and three feet or two feet isn't that great.

The point of the drop test #1 wasn't to do anything more than observe what happens.

In drop test #2 I used like six different cases including three of ours.

And you didn't suggest anything, you stated a fact, "not accurate" when you didn't even understand what was being tested.

If I had said we were going to simulate what happens IN A CASE from a four foot drop then I would agree with you.

I didn't say that, I said I wanted to see what happens to the wood from a controlled distance.

That was achieved. The results were noted. And the rest is discussion.

Join it as someone who is interesting in learning and make positive suggestions as to how to do it better or stay out.









If all you are going to do is send me links to counter my link then it's apparent that you really don't know much more about it than I do.
You are the only one that believes that

One inch? So if I drop the case with the cue in it then cue is not accelerating at the same time as the case? Seems to me, and again I could be wrong, that the case hits the floor and the cue hits the lid and there is a lot of energy there.
Once again, the proof is in the pudding. You should have used a real case with a butt in it instead of your half witted experiment.

But the point is that I did do the test with cases and the results were posted.


And for the record you're a jerkoff Eric. And if you want to try your punching trick on someone closer to your age instead of sucker punching an old man then show up at the SBE and insult me to my face. You can find me easily enough.

You have nothing constructive to offer so feel free to listen to your instincts and get out of this thread.
 
JB vs Justis

I'm curious to know how many people posting and offering their opinions have actually owned cases from both makers. I'm guessing it's not many.

If you look at all aspects and features on the cases that are similar you'll draw your own conclusions. You'll discover that Jack makes a case that looks better hands down. John makes a case that will protect your cue better and there's absolutely no question about that. Your decision on what case to buy comes down to what you want to protect and what you want to spend.
 
Eric Hu.

You were wrong. I was right. I will post the video proof in a little while. The cue's pin was resting in the tube in nearly the same position as it was in the drop tests using a case.
 
Eric. said:
John, I could care less about punching you but if you feel the need, YOU have an open invite to find me and sucker punch ME. I'll handle the rest.


Eric >like I said; NUTJOB
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I was certain you wouldn't show up and insult me face to face. Not because you are afraid of me but because you are that kind of keyboard warrior who loves to insult from far away.

You should however stick to sucker punching old men because your knowledge of physics and analytical thinking are too limited and flawed to play with me.
 
The Upside.

Folks the upside of all this is that we get to do our own little version of MythBusters.

For all the primitive testing I did in the past,

- throwing cases out three story windows,
- throwing them high in the air at shows with the lid OPEN and cues inside,
- leaving them outside in the pouring rain at the US Open,
- sinking them in the swimming pool
- putting thermometer inside them to measure how long it takes to reach ambient temperature.
- beating on them with a baseball bat
- the old standard - driving a car over them

- and for all the stories I collected over the years about peoples accidents and carelessness and related case experiences

There is still a lot I don't know.

So there are cases which rattle and the sound is unnerving. But how much does this really matter? No one knows for sure. I have my ideas about it and I certainly think that no rattle is better than any.

So now, I have a bug up my ass to find out if my own preconceptions are actually true. What IS the actual lowest acceptable level of protection? And against what?

As Sung pointed out and Justin as well cues are meant to be played with and they will get all sorts of scratches and bruises in their life. Now, if you have a cue that you want to keep pristine then you are right to want a case that SURELY doesn't bruise it or scratch it ever.

But how do you really KNOW what that is?

None of us do. I think that I know more than most because I have dissected so many cases in my life.

I have seen things inside cases that I "know" for sure are harmful. BUT - I haven't documented any of it and I didn't run the tests to PROVE what I am sure of. On the other hand, maybe the things I am sure are harmful are not AS BAD as I think that they are and I should do what it takes to find that out.

So that's the whole deal for me right there. Do what it takes to bust all the myths about cue cases. It doesn't matter if you are spending $500 or $5000 on a cue you want to be sure your cue is going to be all right inside the case. So for the next little bit I am going to be dissecting cue cases and we will all learn together.

The upside is that whatever is shown is there for everyone to look at and analyze for themselves. Consumers, dealers, importers, my competition. The potential is there to raise the quality level of all cases and that's a huge WIN for everyone.

No mattter what I make I am going to make money on it.

Today I was told in a meeting that looks were more important than how well the case was made. Seriously. I was told that there are two other factories in China pumping out tons of great looking production cases and that they were selling great.

That's a no brainer. In sales looks are always better than function because we humans are attracted to pretty things like moths to flames, that's why the indians traded Manhattan for glass beads.

But my thing is that I won't succumb to being the kind of case maker that slaps anything over a shoddy foundation to achieve a cool look.

One of the factories mentioned above has a case that is similar to the Predator Blak case in their line up - this case is essentially THREE cases nested inside each other to achieve the LOOK. Same goes for the Predator Blak case.

They built a monstrosity that is horribly overweight simply to achieve a certain look that they wanted. And the end result is that it's NO BETTER than a $50 case with the same interior, which in my opiion offers lousy protection.

That will never be what comes from our shop as long as I have something to say about it.

So the whole thing we are doing here is to establish a foundation, a baseline of cue protection that we can all somewhat agree on - AND THEN we can add decoration around that core.

John Barton - case nutjob
 
John - I appreciate the dedication to your craft and really look forward to see what you make for me.
 
Out of curiosity, I watched whatever video you have on there now where you tested all the different cases and I must say that you were much better in your delivery.

I also wouldn't mind having that wave case. It is nice looking. That black alligator one is what I have but it is a pro series 4x8. I personally have been looking for an old plain brown leather case.

I think you will eventually figure it all out because you're learning from your mistakes.
 
JJ lost this round (which, in the grand scheme of things means nothing) when he typed something to the effect of:

"long term your interior design will cause more damage"

i've had many JJ cases and one JB (not counting instroke) and like them both, but, for different reason, of which one that can't be overlooked is perceived value on the secondary market
 
wow 12 pages of this crap. i can say this, both case makers sound like whiny little children who's mommy got insulted on the playground. i mean really have either one of you taken a second to step back and get some perspective on how this looks to potential customers? i now know for sure i will never own a justis case - not for quality reasons, but because he has shown his ass pretty well in this thread. and i'm kinda pissed i own a case that was even designed by barton, again you have shown your ass here as well. torch this post all you want but it'll be a cold day in hell before i fork over hundreds of dollars to either one one of you. guess it's time to go back and spend 80 bucks on a porper. i have owned one for years - not pretty but nothing ever happened to my cues and it won't inspire two grown men to attack each other like little kids.
 
skeeterpro said:
I'm curious to know how many people posting and offering their opinions have actually owned cases from both makers. I'm guessing it's not many.

If you look at all aspects and features on the cases that are similar you'll draw your own conclusions. You'll discover that Jack makes a case that looks better hands down. John makes a case that will protect your cue better and there's absolutely no question about that. Your decision on what case to buy comes down to what you want to protect and what you want to spend.
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I would wager a bet that quite a few have..I have owned a 3x7 Justis, and I just recently bought a 2x4 last week. I have owned maybe 3 Instroke cases and will soon order a JB case for my wife.
 
I will book all bets on the upcoming Hu vs Barton Pennsylvania Death Match at the following lines:

Hu to win: -450
Barton to win: +400

Barton to never actually ever say something to Hu's face: -1300

Hu to KTFO Barton if given the slightest chance and provocation: Off the board.

Barton to post over ten 2000 word replies as to why Eric is an asshole and include homemade video "proof" of that fact: -12,000

(There is a 300% service charge on all wagers for dealing with the level of crazy associated with this situation. Thank you and good luck to all on your wagers.)
 
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