You're right, the way it is now it's a good idea to practice the lag
So why was the Derby 9ball race changed from 7 to 9 again?
- Thread starter SUPERSTAR
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Well I'm an example of a banger that likes going to the Derby, and I have no chance of wining anything. The pool gods were great to me, and came down one year and had me cash in the Bank Pool event. It was such a good feeling. It has kept me coming back. That $150 check is the best money I have ever gotten in my life. I still have the check, in fact.
Now, if you make the races longer, it takes away any chance of someone like me having an upset over a way way stronger opponent.
I played in the 9 ball one year, and got beat so bad, I felt embarrassed, and have never played in it again.
This tournament is an amateur event, with a bunch of pros sprinkled throughout.
Keep the Bigfoot for the big dogs with races to 11, and only the best of the best allowed. That is a true pro event.
Keep the 3 main events of DCC short races, so guys like me will continue to play.
Then the whole reason of BCA points, is a moot point anyway. What do they provide a player? The players with the most BCA points get an invite into WPA World Championships. But, that invite is worthless in todays pool landscape. Its worthless, because even if 10 US players had the points and were invited, only Shane and Hunter even bother going anymore. I'm sure their reasons are money. So of the 10 invited players going by BCA points, #1 (Shane), and #10 (Hunter) (his ranking is just my guess to make the point) are the only ones going. Again, BCA ranking in the current USA pool landscape is completely worthless. Put DCC 9 ball back to race to 7!
Now, if you make the races longer, it takes away any chance of someone like me having an upset over a way way stronger opponent.
I played in the 9 ball one year, and got beat so bad, I felt embarrassed, and have never played in it again.
This tournament is an amateur event, with a bunch of pros sprinkled throughout.
Keep the Bigfoot for the big dogs with races to 11, and only the best of the best allowed. That is a true pro event.
Keep the 3 main events of DCC short races, so guys like me will continue to play.
Then the whole reason of BCA points, is a moot point anyway. What do they provide a player? The players with the most BCA points get an invite into WPA World Championships. But, that invite is worthless in todays pool landscape. Its worthless, because even if 10 US players had the points and were invited, only Shane and Hunter even bother going anymore. I'm sure their reasons are money. So of the 10 invited players going by BCA points, #1 (Shane), and #10 (Hunter) (his ranking is just my guess to make the point) are the only ones going. Again, BCA ranking in the current USA pool landscape is completely worthless. Put DCC 9 ball back to race to 7!
With the turnout this year, I think the vast majority of players are just fine with the way the events are structured. I know if was the largest banks field and largest 9B field ever for the DCC.
Derby had record turnout this year. 475 in banks and over 400 in both 1P and 9B.
Race to 4 would add 1-2 days to the 10 day format
Yes, DCC had record this year. Hopefully that is a sign things are getting better in the pool world. Maybe they would have had even more entrants in the 9 ball if it was race to 7.
Lets not forget the core of the Derby is amateur players. Sure, there are the top pro's there. But of the 400 odd people in the events, maybe 350 are amateurs, and 50 are legitimate traveling pros.
Lets not forget the core of the Derby is amateur players. Sure, there are the top pro's there. But of the 400 odd people in the events, maybe 350 are amateurs, and 50 are legitimate traveling pros.
A 1-Pkt. race to 4 can, obviously, go 7 games, whereas a race to 3 is 5 games at most. Two more games in 1-Pkt. can be a lot longer. Time is a concern to get the event finished in a reasonable time. Let's look at some numbers from the matches streamed on Accu-Stats.
2016
• 9-Ball -- 15 matches, average elapsed time 65 min., range 32-84 minutes
• 1-Pkt. -- 11 matches, average elapsed time 79 minutes, range 42-130 minutes
2015
• 9-Ball -- 11 matches, average elapsed time 72 minutes, range 46-102 minutes
• 1-Pkt. -- 12 matches, average elapsed time 74 minutes, range 28-approx. 157 minutes
So the average match length has been fairly similar in 9-Ball (races to 9, not 7) and 1-Pkt. (races to 3). But the variability in match lengths is much greater in 1-Pkt. Two streamed 1-Pkt. matches this year and 3 last year went over 2 hours. What if 2 or 3 more games had been added to those matches and played at the same pace? Do the players want the rounds to be delayed even more than they are now by extremely long matches? Do they want to add days to the event? Do the ppv viewers want to watch 4-hour 1-Pkt. matches delaying or eliminating other planned matches?
As for your point about the great advantage to winning the flip or lag with a race to 3 in 1-Pkt., let's look at some more numbers.
I have watched 72 streamed 1-Pkt. matches over the course of the last 6 DCC events and the 2 Southern Classic events. These were all races to 3. In those 72 matches, the breaker won 165 of the 295 games, or 56%. So, yes, the breaker has had an advantage, but perhaps not as great as you thought. And the variability is large. In this latest DCC event, the breaker won 20 of the 49 streamed games, or just 41%.
So, yes, today's 1-Pkt. format can certainly lead to some frustrating losses. But I think that is true in all the disciplines. If 1-Pkt. continues to be played with today's rules, I think the greater good at DCC is to stick with races to 3.
Actually, I, too, would like to see longer races in 1-Pkt., but only if the rules were changed to eliminate the games that go on and on. I'd not only have a shot clock, but a game clock. When the game clock expires, the guy ahead wins the game. That would create some interesting tactics and shot-making as the clock winds down. Yeah, I know -- that would be anathema to the 1-Pkt. purist.
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I don't really care about all those statistics or the times. Sorry.
Break is an advantage.
That's all.
Give each player the same opportunity.
Derby doesn't care about time.
The scheduling of the matches this year should have made that perfectly clear.
One championship one pocket match in the middle of the night, and the loser had a 10am match time for the 9ball?
Please.
That's just absolute garbage.
If people are gonna get screwed over for doing well, at least let them get screwed over with legit races in the other disciplines.
Record turnout could have everything to do with the economy, and nothing to do with races to 9 in the 9ball.
Game clock is a waste.
Whoever has a lead will go on the stall and milk it for everything it's worth while the player that is losing, will have to start taking flyers to try and win and catch up before the game clock expires.
Break is an advantage.
That's all.
Give each player the same opportunity.
Derby doesn't care about time.
The scheduling of the matches this year should have made that perfectly clear.
One championship one pocket match in the middle of the night, and the loser had a 10am match time for the 9ball?
Please.
That's just absolute garbage.
If people are gonna get screwed over for doing well, at least let them get screwed over with legit races in the other disciplines.
Record turnout could have everything to do with the economy, and nothing to do with races to 9 in the 9ball.
Game clock is a waste.
Whoever has a lead will go on the stall and milk it for everything it's worth while the player that is losing, will have to start taking flyers to try and win and catch up before the game clock expires.
395 players this year, so the longer race to nine does not seem to dissuade players from entering.
Yeah, but it will effectively stop the majority of non pros, from upsetting the names, or going deep.
I guess shortstops aren't the brightest bunch.
Yeah, but it will effectively stop the majority of non pros, from upsetting the names, or going deep.
I guess shortstops aren't the brightest bunch.
I believe money is not motivation to them. It is chance to play and beat strong players and see them play. At least that how it is for me.
Yup, facts sometimes interfere with one's argument.
Both players have the same opportunity to win the lag.
Beyond the lag, are the opportunities "the same" in the other disciplines, with winner breaks? There, it is possible that the loser of the lag never goes to the table.
That's hyperbolic. Beyond some level, sure they care.
I don't really understand what you are saying here. You're arguing for shorter races in 9-Ball and longer races in 1-Pkt when, currently, the players get to apply their skills for about the same length of time in both disciplines (on average).
I said nothing about the turnout vs. the economy or the length of the races.
As I said, I'd also have a shot clock, one short enough to prevent significant stalling. But I don't expect this idea (shot clock plus game clock) to gain any traction.
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I hope that clarifies.
Honestly, I think the demise of the Louie Roberts Award is more of a bummer to the character of the Derby than this change in the 9 Ball race length.