So would 80's Efren beat Mosconi...

inside_english

inside_english

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...would 90's Buddy Hall beat Shane of today?
How about Alex of today matching up against Irving Crane in HIS prime?
Or Earl of the 80s/90s against Minnesota Fats?

Actually, I don't care about any of the above comparisons. It is just a statement as to the ridiculousness of some threads...or to be more accurate, how some threads may start off as innocent inquiries or conversation-starters only to devolve into a hate-fest.

I saw a post by Corvette-somebody asking about Bartram and McCready and it grew into 14 pages of name-calling, threats, arguments, snide remarks, and so on. Even if the OP had no intention of starting a fight, there were those who claim to know his true intentions and jacked him up anyway!

Yeah, I read all 14 pages...it was like that train wreck you can't stop yourself from watching. There was a morbid curiosity as to how low they would go, and only a very few called the thread for what it became.

So...you gotta ask yourself, is it really worth it sometimes...the forum battles, I mean? No one really "wins"...nothing is ever proven except that sometimes the pen is mightier than the pool stick.

Ironically, I may get flamed for this benign post...:)

Psstt! Ever notice how most pros don't bother posting and getting into the muck with the rest of us? Wonder why!
 
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inside_english said:
...would 90's Buddy Hall beat Shane of today?
How about Alex of today matching up against Irving Crane in HIS prime?
Or Earl of the 80s/90s against Minnesota Fats?

Actually, I don't care about any of the above comparisons. It is just a statement as to the ridiculousness of some threads...or to be more accurate, how some threads may start off as innocent inquiries or conversation-starters only to devolve into a hate-fest.

I saw a post by Corvette-somebody asking about Bartram and McCready and it grew into 14 pages of name-calling, threats, arguments, snide remarks, and so on. Even if the OP had no intention of starting a fight, there were those who claim to know his true intentions and jacked him up anyway!

Yeah, I read all 14 pages...it was like that train wreck you can't stop yourself from watching. There was a morbid curiosity as to how low they would go, and only a very few called the thread for what it became.

So...you gotta ask yourself, is it really worth it sometimes...the forum battles, I mean? No one really "wins"...nothing is ever proven except that sometimes the pen is mightier than the pool stick.

Ironically, I may get flamed for this benign post...:)

Psstt! Ever notice how most pros don't bother posting and getting into the muck with the rest of us? Wonder why!
Click to expand...

No offense, but this is pointless. We'll never know.

But, on a comedic and mostly serious note. Bartrum can't beat the 80's McCready. Here we go again.......
 
crawfish said:
no offense, but this is pointless. We'll never know.

But, on a comedic and mostly serious note. Bartrum can't beat the 80's mccready. Here we go again.......
Click to expand...

he most certainly can beat him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You $#@$#%^@$%^#$%@#$^@%#$% nit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:d:d:d

so there! Take that
 
Is this what you're asking for? Same equipment, same time frame, we won't ever know.

"You see the balls roll funny."
 
The 70's Toupee Jay would definitely beat the 2000's Jay Helfert. :wink:
I know that for a fact!
 
Todays Diamonds vs. Yesterdays Gold Crowns

I just had to add in here on the Equipment issue...

These Diamond tables of today are very tough to play with the pro cut pockets and deep shelf there too...

Yesterdays Gold Crowns I believe were a bit softer equipment and a bit less demanding on good aim to pocket balls...

I have spoken about this exact topic with many pros and most all agree that todays Diamond Table Champs would most definately defeat the Gold Crown Champs of yesteryear...

On these Diamonds...you just cannot hit the long rail on the way to the pocket and expect the ball to go in...I am sure most of you know what I am talking about...you can use pocket speed and get away with a very small amout of inaccuracy but no way near as much inaccuracy of of aim on the Gold Crowns of the times in the past...

If you want to really know answers to things like these questions...Ask the pros...they know and have so much insight when questions come up like this...

thanks again,

Mr. J.
 
My Dad can beat up all you guyses dads! :)

on another note....to put the Pros up on some kind of pedistal, and say they don't post because of flame wars is silly IMO. They are just regular people like you and me. There are guys like John Schmidt, Grady, Freddie, Shawn Putnam, Earth Quake...etc that post all the time.

I've been a Master Plumber for 15 years, and I post as a Professional on a home improvement site that helps out joe home owner. I do it for fun, and to help people out. Flame wars happen there also, BUT....I don't choose to take part. Helping folks out far out weighs any wacker trying fight.

G.
 
of course

inside_english said:
...would 90's Buddy Hall beat Shane of today?
How about Alex of today matching up against Irving Crane in HIS prime?
Or Earl of the 80s/90s against Minnesota Fats?

Actually, I don't care about any of the above comparisons. It is just a statement as to the ridiculousness of some threads...or to be more accurate, how some threads may start off as innocent inquiries or conversation-starters only to devolve into a hate-fest.

I saw a post by Corvette-somebody asking about Bartram and McCready and it grew into 14 pages of name-calling, threats, arguments, snide remarks, and so on. Even if the OP had no intention of starting a fight, there were those who claim to know his true intentions and jacked him up anyway!


I think any player from 40 years ago would get heisted playing alex with the 7... and i mean heisted!! But what do i know. Just watch some old videos, i think its obvious.
Yeah, I read all 14 pages...it was like that train wreck you can't stop yourself from watching. There was a morbid curiosity as to how low they would go, and only a very few called the thread for what it became.

So...you gotta ask yourself, is it really worth it sometimes...the forum battles, I mean? No one really "wins"...nothing is ever proven except that sometimes the pen is mightier than the pool stick.

Ironically, I may get flamed for this benign post...:)

Psstt! Ever notice how most pros don't bother posting and getting into the muck with the rest of us? Wonder why!
Click to expand...


I think any player from 40 years ago would get heisted playing alex with the 7... and i mean heisted!!! But what do i know. Just watch some old videos and i think it's obvious.
 
Changes in: Cues, cloth, climate, competition, countries, cameras

make for serious Concerns and Conundrums in Corrupt Comparisons
 
Mr. J said:
I just had to add in here on the Equipment issue...

These Diamond tables of today are very tough to play with the pro cut pockets and deep shelf there too...

Yesterdays Gold Crowns I believe were a bit softer equipment and a bit less demanding on good aim to pocket balls...

I have spoken about this exact topic with many pros and most all agree that todays Diamond Table Champs would most definately defeat the Gold Crown Champs of yesteryear...

On these Diamonds...you just cannot hit the long rail on the way to the pocket and expect the ball to go in...I am sure most of you know what I am talking about...you can use pocket speed and get away with a very small amout of inaccuracy but no way near as much inaccuracy of of aim on the Gold Crowns of the times in the past...

If you want to really know answers to things like these questions...Ask the pros...they know and have so much insight when questions come up like this...

thanks again,

Mr. J.
Click to expand...

I think a triple shimmed gold crown with good cloth is about as tough as a pro cut diamond with good cloth. double shimmed gold crown are bucket tables!
 
Mr. J said:
I just had to add in here on the Equipment issue...

These Diamond tables of today are very tough to play with the pro cut pockets and deep shelf there too...

Yesterdays Gold Crowns I believe were a bit softer equipment and a bit less demanding on good aim to pocket balls...

I have spoken about this exact topic with many pros and most all agree that todays Diamond Table Champs would most definately defeat the Gold Crown Champs of yesteryear...

On these Diamonds...you just cannot hit the long rail on the way to the pocket and expect the ball to go in...I am sure most of you know what I am talking about...you can use pocket speed and get away with a very small amout of inaccuracy but no way near as much inaccuracy of of aim on the Gold Crowns of the times in the past...

If you want to really know answers to things like these questions...Ask the pros...they know and have so much insight when questions come up like this...

thanks again,

Mr. J.
Click to expand...

Don't forget that the old timers played on very slow, nappy cloth. In many cases, this meant that the balls had to be hit harder to produce the same shape, and that caused additional misses. The pros you want to talk to about the equipment difference are those that played in both the slow, nappy cloth era and the Simonis 860 generation. Pocket size is only part of the equation.
 
donny mills said:
I think any player from 40 years ago would get heisted playing alex with the 7... and i mean heisted!!! But what do i know. Just watch some old videos and i think it's obvious.
Click to expand...


Perhaps, but there are still many who feel that Luther Lassiter was the best nine ball player that ever lived. Even more feel that Lassiter was the best ball pocketer of all time. One thing is for sure --- if Lassiter in his prime matched up with Alex in his prime, I'd want a front row seat.
 
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donny mills said:
I think any player from 40 years ago would get heisted playing alex with the 7... and i mean heisted!!! But what do i know. Just watch some old videos and i think it's obvious.
Click to expand...

If they played "roll out" pool on the old Stevens cloth, there are about ten guys who I seriously doubt Alex could beat EVEN. Starting with Lassiter, Ed Kelly, Richie Florence, George Rood, Bernie Schwartz, Greg Stevens, Eddie Taylor, Don Willis, Cornbread Red, Denny Searcy and Don Watson.

Nine Ball was a very different game back then when we were playing push out on any shot, and spot all balls. You had to "know" how to play the game, just like One Pocket. Alex and most contemporary players would be baffled by the intricacies of this game. There were decisions to be made on most every rack. And you couldn't escape with a jump cue. In fact, you didn't need one, you could just roll out for a long rail bank or extreme cut shot.

After Alex passed a few of these shots back to Red and watched him fire them in, he wouldn't be sure what to do. He would walk out shaking his head. 9-ball today is a far different game then it was in the 1960's. You couldn't get lucky and beat someone back then. You had to be the better player. Everyone runs out today when they get BIH on the five ball. In the old days, the four ball (after a scratch) would get re-spotted and maybe there were now balls in the way. And you had to shoot from behind the line.

How would you like to play Buddy some this way? Or Keith? Might not be as much fun as you think. Even for Alex. Back then, the seven ball meant something. It was a real spot! I played top players with the seven. Now I'd need the five and the break to play the same guy with today's rules.

This has been a free public service message. :thumbup2:
 
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I Wholeheartedly believe that you have players who rise to the top in any generation who are going to be about as good as the next generation. You even have Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods, and Sam Snead before both of them.

My guess is that the guys today could play with any of them, given the level of competition, and the guys from generations ago could play with the guys today. You rise to the level of competition, and the players nowadays could hold their own, rest assured.
 
jay helfert said:
If they played "roll out" pool on the old Stevens cloth, there are about ten guys who I seriously doubt Alex could beat EVEN. Starting with Lassiter, Ed Kelly, Richie Florence, George Rood, Bernie Schwartz, Greg Stevens, Eddie Taylor, Don Willis, Cornbread Red, Denny Searcy and Don Watson.....How would you like to play Buddy some this way? Or Keith? Might not be as much fun as you think. Even for Alex.
Click to expand...

The problem is this, Jay. If today's superstars played "roll out" on slow cloth for a year or two, on a purely tactical basis, they would surely play it as well as the old masters you mention. Yes, "rollout," which I, too, grew up with is a shotmakers game, but as a shotmaker, I feel that only Lassiter could one-up the best of today's crop, and not by much.
 
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