Some questions in pool that bugs me

[precisepotting]

Some of the issues that bugs me when watching pool games are:

1. Whenever I watch the Filipino players play in their pool halls, they will be surrounded by bystanders. Once a while, one of the "bystander" will come up and mark something on the table below the cue ball and the object ball in the game of 9 or 10 ball. What is this marking all about?

2. It always bugged me why the referee had to call frozen ball, either to the rail or between CB and OB. I have figured it out after such a long time in this game. As I understand, frozen ball between two balls requires you to play the CB into the OB or away depending on the rule being played. My question is, in tournament play, is the rule to always play the CB into OB otherwise it is a foul stroke?

3. I used to understand that there is safety call for shots being played. Is it for 8 or 9 ball? This time and day, I do not see this safety call being used anymore. Is it out of fashion or has it been taken out of the rule book?

4. How do referee decide which object ball is hit first (determining whether it is foul) when two balls are closed together and especially when the shot played is with a strong stroke. Gut feel?

5. If I understand the rule of the game correctly, the timing is discontinued if the referee is cleaning the cue ball. So, is it unsportsmanlike if you ask the referee to clean the CB after you make the break shot for an 8 ball game. Sometimes, you need more time to decide which is a better suit to play and it takes more time.

6. When CB and OB are very close together (less than a few millimeter apart), the likelihood of push shot (or double contact) is very high. How do the referee determine if that is a clean or foul shot? Gut feel?

7. In 9 ball, if it is a legal break and no ball is potted, the turn goes to the next player. The player can opt to go for the shot or to do a push out (which must be called). If it is an illegal break, then the turn goes to the next player. If he refuses to take that turn, then the player who breaks will have to either play or push out. In the Semi-Final between Pang Xiao Ting and Liu Shasha, the incoming player did not hear the referee says illegal break, hence she played a push out and was penalized. She protested saying that the referee didn't say and it is the referee who must make it clear to her (since legal or illegal is all sighted by the referee who was standing). Any thoughts on this?

8. I always thought scoop ball is a foul shot if we make it jumped over an object ball, giving ball in hand. Is that correct? If it is just a scoop shot because you dig to low (trying to do a draw shot), is that a shot resulting in a ball in hand?

Sorry to have asked so many questions. It would clear up many of the stuff that irks me when I watch televised pool.

Thanking all in advance.

 

[JoseV]

Some of the issues that bugs me when watching pool games are:

1. Whenever I watch the Filipino players play in their pool halls, they will be surrounded by bystanders. Once a while, one of the "bystander" will come up and mark something on the table below the cue ball and the object ball in the game of 9 or 10 ball. What is this marking all about?

2. It always bugged me why the referee had to call frozen ball, either to the rail or between CB and OB. I have figured it out after such a long time in this game. As I understand, frozen ball between two balls requires you to play the CB into the OB or away depending on the rule being played. My question is, in tournament play, is the rule to always play the CB into OB otherwise it is a foul stroke?

3. I used to understand that there is safety call for shots being played. Is it for 8 or 9 ball? This time and day, I do not see this safety call being used anymore. Is it out of fashion or has it been taken out of the rule book?

4. How do referee decide which object ball is hit first (determining whether it is foul) when two balls are closed together and especially when the shot played is with a strong stroke. Gut feel?

5. If I understand the rule of the game correctly, the timing is discontinued if the referee is cleaning the cue ball. So, is it unsportsmanlike if you ask the referee to clean the CB after you make the break shot for an 8 ball game. Sometimes, you need more time to decide which is a better suit to play and it takes more time.

6. When CB and OB are very close together (less than a few millimeter apart), the likelihood of push shot (or double contact) is very high. How do the referee determine if that is a clean or foul shot? Gut feel?

7. In 9 ball, if it is a legal break and no ball is potted, the turn goes to the next player. The player can opt to go for the shot or to do a push out (which must be called). If it is an illegal break, then the turn goes to the next player. If he refuses to take that turn, then the player who breaks will have to either play or push out. In the Semi-Final between Pang Xiao Ting and Liu Shasha, the incoming player did not hear the referee says illegal break, hence she played a push out and was penalized. She protested saying that the referee didn't say and it is the referee who must make it clear to her (since legal or illegal is all sighted by the referee who was standing). Any thoughts on this?

8. I always thought scoop ball is a foul shot if we make it jumped over an object ball, giving ball in hand. Is that correct? If it is just a scoop shot because you dig to low (trying to do a draw shot), is that a shot resulting in a ball in hand?

Sorry to have asked so many questions. It would clear up many of the stuff that irks me when I watch televised pool.

Thanking all in advance.

I think i saw the same Video you did about the Filipino players, I think its baby powder they are using to mark the ball in case of accidental touching/bumping of the balls not in play in that moment

 

[jsp]

Some of the issues that bugs me when watching pool games are:

1. Whenever I watch the Filipino players play in their pool halls, they will be surrounded by bystanders. Once a while, one of the "bystander" will come up and mark something on the table below the cue ball and the object ball in the game of 9 or 10 ball. What is this marking all about?

As JoseV responded, this is to mark the location of balls in case they are inadvertently moved during the act of shooting. Gambling matches in the Philippines generally don't play "foul on all balls".

2. It always bugged me why the referee had to call frozen ball, either to the rail or between CB and OB. I have figured it out after such a long time in this game. As I understand, frozen ball between two balls requires you to play the CB into the OB or away depending on the rule being played. My question is, in tournament play, is the rule to always play the CB into OB otherwise it is a foul stroke?

If the CB is frozen to the OB, then the shooter is allowed to stroke through the CB/OB and it wouldn't be ruled a double hit. If the OB is frozen on the rail, then after the CB contacts the OB then another rail contact must occur (the OB contacts the rail or another OB contacts a rail) or it's a foul.

3. I used to understand that there is safety call for shots being played. Is it for 8 or 9 ball? This time and day, I do not see this safety call being used anymore. Is it out of fashion or has it been taken out of the rule book?

In 8 ball safety shots can be called in which you forfeit your turn on the table regardless of whether a ball is legally pocketed. The conventional thinking is that when playing a safety in 8 ball it is generally better to leave your OB hanging in the pocket instead of pocketing it, in which case there would be no need to call a safety.

In call shot rotation games (usually 10 ball), there are some versions of the rules where a safety must be called if you intentionally plan to not pocket a ball. If you don't call a safety (or you call a safety and you pocket a ball on a legal shot) the incoming player has the option to play the shot or pass it back to you. This is meant to prevent the penalization of the incoming player who gets hooked after a missed pot by the opponent.

4. How do referee decide which object ball is hit first (determining whether it is foul) when two balls are closed together and especially when the shot played is with a strong stroke. Gut feel?

Many times a good ref can determine what OB was hit first by the action of the balls afterwards, particularly the direction of the CB after contact. If the CB hits this OB first, the CB would go in this general direction after impact. If the CB hits the other OB first, the CB would go in another direction after impact. But there are still many cases where the referee has to simply judge on gut feel (whether he thinks he saw one OB get hit first).

5. If I understand the rule of the game correctly, the timing is discontinued if the referee is cleaning the cue ball. So, is it unsportsmanlike if you ask the referee to clean the CB after you make the break shot for an 8 ball game. Sometimes, you need more time to decide which is a better suit to play and it takes more time.

I agree there can be times that asking for the CB to be cleaned can be considered unsportsmanlike. I don't think there are any hard rules written, but these situations are handled solely on the discretion of the referee.

6. When CB and OB are very close together (less than a few millimeter apart), the likelihood of push shot (or double contact) is very high. How do the referee determine if that is a clean or foul shot? Gut feel?

A good referee can tell by the action of the CB. Generally if the CB immediately scoots forward after impact, then it's a double hit.

(There are some ridiculous rules [such as the DCC] that states that during such cases where the CB/OB are at close proximity, as long as the cue is elevated at 45 degrees then the shot should be considered legal even though a double hit occurred.)

7. In 9 ball, if it is a legal break and no ball is potted, the turn goes to the next player. The player can opt to go for the shot or to do a push out (which must be called). If it is an illegal break, then the turn goes to the next player. If he refuses to take that turn, then the player who breaks will have to either play or push out. In the Semi-Final between Pang Xiao Ting and Liu Shasha, the incoming player did not hear the referee says illegal break, hence she played a push out and was penalized. She protested saying that the referee didn't say and it is the referee who must make it clear to her (since legal or illegal is all sighted by the referee who was standing). Any thoughts on this?

If the referee clearly didn't vocalize that an illegal break occurred, then my opinion is that the incoming player shouldn't be penalized.

8. I always thought scoop ball is a foul shot if we make it jumped over an object ball, giving ball in hand. Is that correct? If it is just a scoop shot because you dig to low (trying to do a draw shot), is that a shot resulting in a ball in hand?

My understanding is that it is a foul only if it is an intentional scoop shot. If you do it inadvertently, such as any other unintentional miscue, then it is not a foul. Yes, I understand the inconsistency with this.

Sorry to have asked so many questions. It would clear up many of the stuff that irks me when I watch televised pool.

Thanking all in advance.

Good questions. (Can you tell that I'd rather not get started with work right away this morning?)

 

[hang-the-9]

Some of the issues that bugs me when watching pool games are:

1. Whenever I watch the Filipino players play in their pool halls, they will be surrounded by bystanders. Once a while, one of the "bystander" will come up and mark something on the table below the cue ball and the object ball in the game of 9 or 10 ball. What is this marking all about?

2. It always bugged me why the referee had to call frozen ball, either to the rail or between CB and OB. I have figured it out after such a long time in this game. As I understand, frozen ball between two balls requires you to play the CB into the OB or away depending on the rule being played. My question is, in tournament play, is the rule to always play the CB into OB otherwise it is a foul stroke?

3. I used to understand that there is safety call for shots being played. Is it for 8 or 9 ball? This time and day, I do not see this safety call being used anymore. Is it out of fashion or has it been taken out of the rule book?

4. How do referee decide which object ball is hit first (determining whether it is foul) when two balls are closed together and especially when the shot played is with a strong stroke. Gut feel?

5. If I understand the rule of the game correctly, the timing is discontinued if the referee is cleaning the cue ball. So, is it unsportsmanlike if you ask the referee to clean the CB after you make the break shot for an 8 ball game. Sometimes, you need more time to decide which is a better suit to play and it takes more time.

6. When CB and OB are very close together (less than a few millimeter apart), the likelihood of push shot (or double contact) is very high. How do the referee determine if that is a clean or foul shot? Gut feel?

7. In 9 ball, if it is a legal break and no ball is potted, the turn goes to the next player. The player can opt to go for the shot or to do a push out (which must be called). If it is an illegal break, then the turn goes to the next player. If he refuses to take that turn, then the player who breaks will have to either play or push out. In the Semi-Final between Pang Xiao Ting and Liu Shasha, the incoming player did not hear the referee says illegal break, hence she played a push out and was penalized. She protested saying that the referee didn't say and it is the referee who must make it clear to her (since legal or illegal is all sighted by the referee who was standing). Any thoughts on this?

8. I always thought scoop ball is a foul shot if we make it jumped over an object ball, giving ball in hand. Is that correct? If it is just a scoop shot because you dig to low (trying to do a draw shot), is that a shot resulting in a ball in hand?

Sorry to have asked so many questions. It would clear up many of the stuff that irks me when I watch televised pool.

Thanking all in advance.

2 Yes a ref or someone has to call the balls frozen otherwise if there is a foul shot it is too late to protest since there was no call made. On two frozen balls, you can shoot in a normal stroke straight at them, you still can't double-hit the cueball.

3 You only need to call a safe in 8 ball since in 8 ball world rules you can pocket a ball while calling safe and give up your turn. If you don't call a safe and pocket a ball you continue shooting. Calling a safe in 9 ball is useless since you either make a ball and keep shooting or miss and sit.

4 Not gut feel, by looking and seeing how the balls react off the contact if they can't tell for sure what was hit first. If they can't tell, the call goes to the shooter.

5 I do not think the time stops if you ask the ref to clean the ball, but it would depend on the rules. And yes if time stops it can be used as a "secret timeout".

6 Again not gut feel, people know how a ball reacts on a double hit or a push shot, every decent player needs to know this. If the balls are very close together, and the cueball passes the line of the other ball, it's pretty much guaranteed it was a foul.

7 Yes the ref should have made it clear it was an illegal break, but if they did say so, the player has to be paying attention to the game and the calls made. The ref should have said it was an illegal break when they saw the other player trying to play a shot, the protest was correct.

8 A miscue during draw is not ball in hand. The only foul that may be called there is if the ferrule hit the cueball but I have never seen that called as a foul during a miscue since usually the result of a miscue is not good for the shooter anyway and is often a ball in hand anyway.

 

[Poolplaya9]

Some of the issues that bugs me when watching pool games are:

1. Whenever I watch the Filipino players play in their pool halls, they will be surrounded by bystanders. Once a while, one of the "bystander" will come up and mark something on the table below the cue ball and the object ball in the game of 9 or 10 ball. What is this marking all about?

2. It always bugged me why the referee had to call frozen ball, either to the rail or between CB and OB. I have figured it out after such a long time in this game. As I understand, frozen ball between two balls requires you to play the CB into the OB or away depending on the rule being played. My question is, in tournament play, is the rule to always play the CB into OB otherwise it is a foul stroke?

3. I used to understand that there is safety call for shots being played. Is it for 8 or 9 ball? This time and day, I do not see this safety call being used anymore. Is it out of fashion or has it been taken out of the rule book?

4. How do referee decide which object ball is hit first (determining whether it is foul) when two balls are closed together and especially when the shot played is with a strong stroke. Gut feel?

5. If I understand the rule of the game correctly, the timing is discontinued if the referee is cleaning the cue ball. So, is it unsportsmanlike if you ask the referee to clean the CB after you make the break shot for an 8 ball game. Sometimes, you need more time to decide which is a better suit to play and it takes more time.

6. When CB and OB are very close together (less than a few millimeter apart), the likelihood of push shot (or double contact) is very high. How do the referee determine if that is a clean or foul shot? Gut feel?

7. In 9 ball, if it is a legal break and no ball is potted, the turn goes to the next player. The player can opt to go for the shot or to do a push out (which must be called). If it is an illegal break, then the turn goes to the next player. If he refuses to take that turn, then the player who breaks will have to either play or push out. In the Semi-Final between Pang Xiao Ting and Liu Shasha, the incoming player did not hear the referee says illegal break, hence she played a push out and was penalized. She protested saying that the referee didn't say and it is the referee who must make it clear to her (since legal or illegal is all sighted by the referee who was standing). Any thoughts on this?

8. I always thought scoop ball is a foul shot if we make it jumped over an object ball, giving ball in hand. Is that correct? If it is just a scoop shot because you dig to low (trying to do a draw shot), is that a shot resulting in a ball in hand?

Sorry to have asked so many questions. It would clear up many of the stuff that irks me when I watch televised pool.

Thanking all in advance.

1. This is something peculiar to Filipino pool that I think only they do. If there is any chance that a ball could be accidentally disturbed, they place a mark next to the ball before the shot so that if it does get accidentally moved they can put it back in the exact same spot.

2. If I understand what you are asking correctly, in all the popular "American" pool games such as 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball, one pocket, bank pool, straight pool, etc, the cue ball must be shot into an appropriate object ball, and then as a result of that collision a ball, any ball, must be driven into a rail. Failure to meet this requirement is a foul and the penalty for the foul varies by game (sometimes loss of turn and ball in hand for opponent, sometimes just loss of turn and loss of point/s but no ball in hand for opponent, etc). In cases where an object ball is already frozen to the rail, just hitting that ball does not count as getting your rail contact. Either some other ball or cue ball has to hit a rail as a result, or the frozen object ball has to be driven into a different rail than the one if was frozen to. If the player shooting was not made aware that a ball was frozen before his shot then that ball is treated as if it was not frozen for that shot. It is only considered frozen if it is called frozen prior to the shot.

When the cue ball is already frozen to the object ball you want to hit, most rule sets including the ones the pros most often play under say that you can shoot directly into said object ball and it is not a foul, but some rule sets may vary from this.

This site/quiz is awesome for explaining the various rules and how they apply:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/pool_rules_quiz.html

3. This one also varies a bit by rule set, as well as by the game being played in some cases. For some games in some rule sets there essentially is no option to call a safety, and in other games or rule sets there is. I will let someone else who is more familiar with all various current rules for all major games under all the various major rule sets answer this.

4. When shooting into two object balls at nearly the same time, if it cannot be determined which ball was hit first, as long as one of them was a legal object ball then the shot is considered good and the shooter is given the benefit of the doubt just as they do in baseball where "the tie goes to the runner". However, you can almost always determine which ball was hit first based on the direction and speeds the cue ball and object balls go after contact. These links will help you learn how to determine which ball was hit first:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWC7mlj14X4
http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2009/nov09.pdf

5. If you are calling time out for the ball to be cleaned just because you want more time to analyze the table, yes the referee could consider this to be unsportsmanlike behavior and assess a penalty if they felt confident this is what you were doing and if they were so inclined. My guess is that you would get a warning before they assessed a penalty though. You are not allowed to use a "clean the ball time out" solely for other purposes if the ball didn't even really need to be cleaned.

6. As mentioned in #2, if they are frozen it is not a foul under most rule sets to shoot directly into the object ball. If there is any space at all between the two balls however as you were mentioning, a judgement must then be made as to whether or not a foul occurred. Sometimes you can see or hear a double hit foul but you can always determine what happened much more accurately by knowing how to read the reaction of the balls as far as which direction they went, and at what speeds. Dr. Daves site has some really, really good information on how to tell good hits from fouls at these links (and look around the rest of his site for all kinds of other good information on any question you would ever have related to pool):

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/fouls.html
http://billiards.colostate.edu/pool_rules_quiz.html

7. I did not see this match, nor do I know what the official rule is in each rule set, if there is even a rule that precisely covers this exact circumstance. My guess as to what the rule is, or at least what it should be, is that the referee must make sure that the incoming player heard the call by getting an acknowledgment from the player that they heard it, similar to the way the you must inform a player when they are on two fouls (if playing under three foul rules) and must get acknowledgement from them that they heard you. If you didn't get confirmation from the player that they heard the call then I think it should be treated as if the call was never made to them. Hopefully somebody else can confirm what various rule sets actually say about this.

8. Again, various rule sets vary on this but for most of the major rule sets if you intentionally do a scoop jump shot to jump over an interfering ball then it is a foul, but if you do an unintentional scoop shot such as when you are trying to draw the ball it generally is not a foul. There may be rule sets that vary from this but I believe this is most typical.

 

[GB Basher]

7. You can only have an illegal break if a ball is potted. If no balls are potted it is a dry break. So it is the responsibility of the incoming player to see how may balls are on the table.

 

[precisepotting]

It has been enlightening. Thanks guys for taking the time to type in your detailed explanation. Very much appreciated.

Still has question over point 1 and 2.

1. What does it meant by disturbing the ball? In a game of pool, all balls have the possibility of being disturbed. You meant if another ball collided into it, it will be placed back to where the white chalked is marked? Or could it be they are betting these marked balls will be disturbed hence they marked the position??

2. I am aware that playing into the CB towards the OB is acceptable for frozen ball. My question is, how about playing away since they are already in contact. Must the CB contact another OB or just have to play off the rail (for the touch rail rule). Maybe my earlier question was badly phrased.

Once again, thanks for helping me clear these.

 

[Poolplaya9]

It has been enlightening. Thanks guys for taking the time to type in your detailed explanation. Very much appreciated.

Still has question over point 1 and 2.

1. What does it meant by disturbing the ball? In a game of pool, all balls have the possibility of being disturbed. You meant if another ball collided into it, it will be placed back to where the white chalked is marked? Or could it be they are betting these marked balls will be disturbed hence they marked the position??

2. I am aware that playing into the CB towards the OB is acceptable for frozen ball. My question is, how about playing away since they are already in contact. Must the CB contact another OB or just have to play off the rail (for the touch rail rule). Maybe my earlier question was badly phrased.

Once again, thanks for helping me clear these.

1. It is for when a ball gets accidentally disturbed by a hand, arm, hair, shirt, cue stick, etc.

2. I understand what you are asking now. The cue ball already touching an object ball before the shot does not count as your object ball contact for your shot. You must either shoot into the object ball you are frozen to, and then something must hit a rail, or if you choose to shoot away from the frozen object ball you must shoot at another legal object ball and drive something to a rail.

 

[Black-Balled]

Holy fukc.

Is this guy really selling...SELLING POOL INSTRUCTION?

 

[AtLarge]

7. You can only have an illegal break if a ball is potted. If no balls are potted it is a dry break. So it is the responsibility of the incoming player to see how may balls are on the table.

A dry break can be illegal (non-satisfactory) under a three-point rule. The non-breaker has the option to accept the table as is or hand it back to the breaker.

 

[precisepotting]

1. It is for when a ball gets accidentally disturbed by a hand, arm, hair, shirt, cue stick, etc.

2. I understand what you are asking now. The cue ball already touching an object ball before the shot does not count as your object ball contact for your shot. You must either shoot into the object ball you are frozen to, and then something must hit a rail, or if you choose to shoot away from the frozen object ball you must shoot at another legal object ball and drive something to a rail.

Thanks Poolplaya9. For point 1, if the ball is disturbed, won't it be ball in hand and the disturbed ball remain where it finally ended up and not respotted back to its original location?

 

[precisepotting]

Holy fukc.

Is this guy really selling...SELLING POOL INSTRUCTION?

Nope, not selling. Giving away for free. Not instruction, just a new playing style that is primarily to do with side-spin.

 

[Poolplaya9]

Thanks Poolplaya9. For point 1, if the ball is disturbed, won't it be ball in hand and the disturbed ball remain where it finally ended up and not respotted back to its original location?

Once again, it all depends on things like which rule set you are talking about, whether a match has a ref or not, etc. Sometimes it is a foul, sometimes it is not. Sometimes it gets moved back, sometimes it doesn't, and sometimes it is your opponents option to put it back or leave it where it landed. Sometimes it is a foul only if you accidentally move the cue ball, but it is not a foul if you accidentally move an object ball. Sometimes it is a foul if you accidentally move an object ball. Sometimes it is not a foul if you only accidentally move just one object ball, but it is a foul if you accidentally move two or more object balls. Sometimes even if it were not a foul to accidentally move one object ball, it becomes a foul if it crosses the line of the cue ball on the shot. Etc.

I have no idea which exact cue ball and object ball fouls rule the Filipinos in the videos you are referring to are playing by but one thing seems obvious since they are marking ball locations in case it is accidentally moved, and that is that they are going to replace the ball back to the same spot, at least some of the time. Sometimes you can only figure out which rules they are using by watching what they do and how they handle certain situations.

 

[Poolplaya9]

Nope, not selling. Giving away for free. Not instruction, just a new playing style that is primarily to do with side-spin.

With all due respect, the last thing a brand new beginner in anything should be doing is teaching that which they are just starting to learn themselves, in this case anything to do with pool. Please give this some serious consideration as you are almost certainly misleading and misinforming people and causing them harm even though I'm sure you can't see it and don't realize it right now. It isn't fair to the people you are hurting without even realizing it. If you care about people at all leave the instruction--any pool instruction including new "styles" and techniques--to someone who has the expertise.

 

[precisepotting]

With all due respect, the last thing a brand new beginner in anything should be doing is teaching that which they are just starting to learn themselves, in this case anything to do with pool. Please give this some serious consideration as you are almost certainly misleading and misinforming people and causing them harm even though I'm sure you can't see it and don't realize it right now. It isn't fair to the people you are hurting without even realizing it. If you care about people at all leave the instruction--any pool instruction including new "styles" and techniques--to someone who has the expertise.

I am not exactly a novice and I tend to win most of my games these days. My manual is more on understanding the physics of the game.and on how to use it to your benefit.

If you have read my manual, then you probably would be surprised at a few things in it. For amateurs or above average players (probably not many readers here are in these categories), they will probably picked up a trick or two in this manual.

If we find anything useful, I thought it would be useful to share. If the reader decides it is rubbish, then it is . If they find it useful, then it is useful. Each his own.

 

[Poolplaya9]

If the reader decides it is rubbish, then it is . If they find it useful, then it is useful.

I get what you are saying here but don't exactly agree. Some people will find that the sugar pills being hawked on Ebay as a cancer cure/treatment are useful, but that doesn't change the reality and fact that they are still rubbish. Perception does not equal reality.

To be fair I haven't read your instructional manual, and am only judging your pool prowess and knowledge by what appears to be your [lack of] knowledge based on the questions you ask, and the implications those questions make about how much time you have actually [not] spent around pool.

Where can one get the free download of your instructional manual?

 

[precisepotting]

PM me your email address and I will send it to you. Free of Charge.

Alternatively, you can email to me at precisionpotting@gmail.com.