some random league musings

L

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i had a kinda interesting night at league tonight. i thought i would share it with you.

DISCLAIMER ; i aint complaining or bi***ing. all too often people come on here complaining of all kind of reasons they dont play leagues or certain leagues anyway. i just thought it might be interesting to have a thread to share some experiences you have had with out all the bashing that happens all too often on here.

i have been playing my sun night division ever since i joined apa 2 1/2 years ago so i know most evertbody and every body gets along good. well we had a new team that has been playing for awhile in another division join us.

we faced them to night and well.... lets just say it was interesting.

1st off when it got time to start i told him i was ready to begin. he stated all his players were not there. i said neither are all of mine but we both got enough to start. he had a look on his face like he did not like it but did not say anything. i won the coin flip and elected to throw 1st. this is double jeapordy btw.

the 1st 8 and 9 ball match went uneventful with them winning 8 and us 9. they throw out a 4 in 9 ball and i elect to play him. i want to let you know that i was lowered to a 4 the start of this session. still a 6 in 8 ball though. :D

i gotta say my opponent is in the top 3 of the best 4's i have ever faced. he played so many safes and 2 way shots it was unreal. thankfuly my kicking game has improved a lot this last year. if i had never been lowered to a 4 i could not have beat him, just eaked out a win 31-29, we won 8 ball.

now it gets interesting. during the 9 ball match my player missed a shot and left his opponent hooked. after a time out their captain coaches his player in a 2 rail kick. their player makes contact with the frozen ball and my player says bih, right ? their captain says no that was a legal hit. my player says but the ball was froze, their captain says no one called a froze ball so the shot goes to the shooter. i tell my player he is right , go ahead and shoot.

we get past that ok and move on. well their captain is a 5 in 8 ball and i throw a 5. halway through the match their captain makes a foul by hitting my players ball1st. my player says bih, right. he says no, it was a good hit. my player says no , it was obvious you hit my ball 1st. he says you did not call for an observer so the shot goes to me, that is the rule.

again i say you are right , i know the rules also but we are used to players calling fouls on theirselves in this division with the biggest grin i could muster . his eyes were shooting daggers at me :grin:.

now the last 9 ball match was just friggin unbelievable. i throw out a 4 and they throw out a 2 so they wont go over handicap. my 4 jumps out to 16-4. WOULD YOU BELIEVE MY 4 LOST TO THEIR 2 BY A SCORE OF 19- 23 ????? UN FRIGGIN BELIEVABLE !!!!

well the night ended with us winning 8 ball 3-2 and tying in 9 ball 50-50.

that was my league night. i think it would be interesting to hear about some of yours.
 
lorider said:
that was my league night. i think it would be interesting to hear about some of yours.
Click to expand...

Haha, that sounds familiar. As much as people complain about the handicap game, it's fun trying to come up with the perfect matchup for any given player. "well he's a four but he just got bumped down and he's really a five. We should put up joe. Andy won't play early because he says he needs to warm up, and we can't play joe later because he's always drunk by 9 o'clock."

OK, here's my last 9b league night -

Get there about 15 minutes before start, like always. Some of my teammates are late due to work (or whatever), some are already playing 8b. One's got band practice til nine. It's a little frustrating but often we begin the evening with only one or two people who can actually play right away.

We can play either me or our 3. We do some quick math... it has to be her. I recently got bumped up to an 8. If I play, we need a 2 to play also to make the 23 limit. But our 2 is the girlfriend of our 6 and they're both out of state somewhere. It means I can't play tonight, which is fine. I had the same issue as a 7. I play maybe once a month.

Our 3 is smart and listens well and 2-ways a lot of shots. Theirs just shoots really straight for her rank. Ours gets creamed. We're off to a rough start.

Now they put up. Shit, it's the league operator... he's a 7. This is the first time my new handicap has really boned us. I'm the automatic choice usually because I've beaten him every time we played except (I think) once. He shoots well, but I think something about my personality or demeanor puts him on tilt. But tonight I can't play him. I'm stuck teaching someone how to score... this guy has played league forever and tried to pull the "I don't do scoring" routine. Now he seems to be almost playing dumb on purpose.

"I put the mark here?"
"No, over here, this is the opponent's score."
"OK I put down three marks?"
"No, just one. Put it through the third dot."
[puts a mark way to the left of the dot, making it unclear if the third point was scored]
"Well, you wanna try to put it through this dot here, so we know the player got 3"
[puts a fourth mark on the page, missing the dot to the right]
"OK, he made two more while we were talking, we already have 4 marks, let's put the 5th one right through the five. No, I mean, right through the number 5..."

I have to nudge him to mark literally every point and inning. For over 100 pocketed balls (and probably another 100 missed ones).

Our band practice guy has arrived, he's a strong 4, plays as a 5 in 8b. He seems intimidated and gets steamrolled. We've probably lost this week. Our scores are something like 17-3, 15-5.

Our next guy is an ideal league player. He's a 4 but has the brains of a 6. Might get bumped to a 5 at any time. Composed under pressure and also willing to take on the captain chores, or score, or have "A Talk" with people who aren't pulling their weight. Beats their 4? to death and now that 17-3 score has been cleanly wiped out. Maybe there's hope.

Then we play the 'I don't score' guy. He's a great ballmaker, but older and set in his ways. A nice guy, but not a smart player. He just doesn't know how to play shape. I don't even know if he can draw. But he can roll balls in at various speeds and make thin cuts. It's enough to get out of a rack of 8b, sometimes. He's a 5 or 6 in that game. But in 9b, I'd be surprised if he ever passes 4. He gets wrecked against a solid 5 that I know little about. We can write off winning this night.

Our final match also involves people I know little about. This is my first night watching a new teammate shoot, and he's pretty much a legit 2, maybe 3 on a good night. The other team's 2 is a big friendly asian dude I've never met, and he's got a good attitude and great fundamentals. With a little smart coaching from the LO, he thrashes our guy.

Time to pack up and go - but my former teammate begs for a game, then another friend who plays only 8b in league also wants some games. He's drunk but I humor him for three racks. Now it's really time to go. Some nights we do denny's or something afterwards but this isn't one of those nights.
 
lorider said:
we get past that ok and move on. well their captain is a 5 in 8 ball and i throw a 5. halway through the match their captain makes a foul by hitting my players ball1st. my player says bih, right. he says no, it was a good hit. my player says no , it was obvious you hit my ball 1st. he says you did not call for an observer so the shot goes to me, that is the rule.
Click to expand...

This is the part I don't get; maybe you left something out. The other guy hits your player's ball first and because he didn't call for an observer. Was the other guy basically saying that you need to call for an observer on every shot or never get ball in hand?
 
Okay...I'll play.

I play in a VNEA league here and we have a pretty stacked 4 man team. We are well out in front of the next closest team. So, to keep things mildly interesting we all throw in 10 bucks a man every night. The winner gets the 40 bucks. Pretty much every week you have to get a 40 (you get 10 points for each win & you play only 4 racks). So, it usually comes down to ball count, meaning how many balls you have given up (to go along with your 40).

Well a few weeks back, my first rack ended quickly with my opponent making the 8 on the break. To make matters worse, it was their weakest player. When you lose your first rack it really sucks! This is always followed by "There's always next week!" and a bunch of laughs.

Now 2 weeks ago, I'm well out in front going in to the last rack. All I have to do is win it. I was playing against a much weaker opponent so I shouldn't have had any trouble winning the rack. So what do I do? I dog an easy shot and my much weaker opponent runs out on me. All my team mates are laughing and shaking their heads at me. Only to watch this guy make the eight and slow roll the cue ball right into the pocket behind it! I left with the cash that night!

Last week was fun too. We had a guy out in front all night. He put the eight in on the break twice! His other rack he ran out after a dry break. So he's sitting there with a 30 and having only given up something like 2 balls. All he has to do is win the rack and he’s 40 dollars richer (or 30?). His opponent breaks dry and leaves him a bit of a tough table. He could just play for the win and play it safe but we were all watching him and we could tell he wanted to go for it. But we noticed one problem....the eight was wired for the corner off of a carom and we didn't think he saw it. So what's he do? He tries to open up the table and that eight ball caroms off the 15 and flies straight into the corner pocket. The room was silent for what seemed like a minute. After everyone had a chance to catch their breath we all said, "There's always next week." The 40 bucks was still sitting there looking for a home.

I was just sort of managing to get through my racks that night but I got to step to the table after my opponent's dry break. If I could get out I would get to leave with the dough. Well, I managed to get out and I did get the dough, although I was feeling rather generous later on, so I didn't actually manage to make it home with it. :)

Leagues can be fun.
 
lorider said:
i had a kinda interesting night at league tonight. i thought i would share it with you.

DISCLAIMER ; i aint complaining or bi***ing. all too often people come on here complaining of all kind of reasons they dont play leagues or certain leagues anyway. i just thought it might be interesting to have a thread to share some experiences you have had with out all the bashing that happens all too often on here.

i have been playing my sun night division ever since i joined apa 2 1/2 years ago so i know most evertbody and every body gets along good. well we had a new team that has been playing for awhile in another division join us.

we faced them to night and well.... lets just say it was interesting.

1st off when it got time to start i told him i was ready to begin. he stated all his players were not there. i said neither are all of mine but we both got enough to start. he had a look on his face like he did not like it but did not say anything. i won the coin flip and elected to throw 1st. this is double jeapordy btw.

the 1st 8 and 9 ball match went uneventful with them winning 8 and us 9. they throw out a 4 in 9 ball and i elect to play him. i want to let you know that i was lowered to a 4 the start of this session. still a 6 in 8 ball though. :D

i gotta say my opponent is in the top 3 of the best 4's i have ever faced. he played so many safes and 2 way shots it was unreal. thankfuly my kicking game has improved a lot this last year. if i had never been lowered to a 4 i could not have beat him, just eaked out a win 31-29, we won 8 ball.

now it gets interesting. during the 9 ball match my player missed a shot and left his opponent hooked. after a time out their captain coaches his player in a 2 rail kick. their player makes contact with the frozen ball and my player says bih, right ? their captain says no that was a legal hit. my player says but the ball was froze, their captain says no one called a froze ball so the shot goes to the shooter. i tell my player he is right , go ahead and shoot.

we get past that ok and move on. well their captain is a 5 in 8 ball and i throw a 5. halway through the match their captain makes a foul by hitting my players ball1st. my player says bih, right. he says no, it was a good hit. my player says no , it was obvious you hit my ball 1st. he says you did not call for an observer so the shot goes to me, that is the rule.

again i say you are right , i know the rules also but we are used to players calling fouls on theirselves in this division with the biggest grin i could muster . his eyes were shooting daggers at me :grin:.

now the last 9 ball match was just friggin unbelievable. i throw out a 4 and they throw out a 2 so they wont go over handicap. my 4 jumps out to 16-4. WOULD YOU BELIEVE MY 4 LOST TO THEIR 2 BY A SCORE OF 19- 23 ????? UN FRIGGIN BELIEVABLE !!!!

well the night ended with us winning 8 ball 3-2 and tying in 9 ball 50-50.

that was my league night. i think it would be interesting to hear about some of yours.
Click to expand...



APA rules clearly say the call goes to the shooter unless a 3rd party is watching. Obviously you aren't going to get somebody to watch a shot where you don't anticipate a foul.

To handle that situation you need to submit a unsportsman like conduct complain to the local APA office. The LO needs to be aware of this in case the guy pulls the same number.
 
TheNewSharkster said:
APA rules clearly say the call goes to the shooter unless a 3rd party is watching. Obviously you aren't going to get somebody to watch a shot where you don't anticipate a foul.

To handle that situation you need to submit a unsportsman like conduct complain to the local APA office. The LO needs to be aware of this in case the guy pulls the same number.
Click to expand...

This. There's not that many people playing that will be that blatant of an A-hole. When you run into one, give it right back. At that point, I would have asked to pause the match, found a friendly 3rd party, explain what happened and ask them to watch the remainder of the match. I'd have even bought their drinks to motivate them to watch. Then you inform the LO and let Captains of other teams know of this cheating POS.
 
lorider said:
i had a kinda interesting night at league tonight. i thought i would share it with you.

DISCLAIMER ; i aint complaining or bi***ing. all too often people come on here complaining of all kind of reasons they dont play leagues or certain leagues anyway. i just thought it might be interesting to have a thread to share some experiences you have had with out all the bashing that happens all too often on here.

i have been playing my sun night division ever since i joined apa 2 1/2 years ago so i know most evertbody and every body gets along good. well we had a new team that has been playing for awhile in another division join us.

we faced them to night and well.... lets just say it was interesting.

1st off when it got time to start i told him i was ready to begin. he stated all his players were not there. i said neither are all of mine but we both got enough to start. he had a look on his face like he did not like it but did not say anything. i won the coin flip and elected to throw 1st. this is double jeapordy btw.

the 1st 8 and 9 ball match went uneventful with them winning 8 and us 9. they throw out a 4 in 9 ball and i elect to play him. i want to let you know that i was lowered to a 4 the start of this session. still a 6 in 8 ball though. :D

i gotta say my opponent is in the top 3 of the best 4's i have ever faced. he played so many safes and 2 way shots it was unreal. thankfuly my kicking game has improved a lot this last year. if i had never been lowered to a 4 i could not have beat him, just eaked out a win 31-29, we won 8 ball.

now it gets interesting. during the 9 ball match my player missed a shot and left his opponent hooked. after a time out their captain coaches his player in a 2 rail kick. their player makes contact with the frozen ball and my player says bih, right ? their captain says no that was a legal hit. my player says but the ball was froze, their captain says no one called a froze ball so the shot goes to the shooter. i tell my player he is right , go ahead and shoot.

we get past that ok and move on. well their captain is a 5 in 8 ball and i throw a 5. halway through the match their captain makes a foul by hitting my players ball1st. my player says bih, right. he says no, it was a good hit. my player says no , it was obvious you hit my ball 1st. he says you did not call for an observer so the shot goes to me, that is the rule.

again i say you are right , i know the rules also but we are used to players calling fouls on theirselves in this division with the biggest grin i could muster . his eyes were shooting daggers at me :grin:.

now the last 9 ball match was just friggin unbelievable. i throw out a 4 and they throw out a 2 so they wont go over handicap. my 4 jumps out to 16-4. WOULD YOU BELIEVE MY 4 LOST TO THEIR 2 BY A SCORE OF 19- 23 ????? UN FRIGGIN BELIEVABLE !!!!

well the night ended with us winning 8 ball 3-2 and tying in 9 ball 50-50.

that was my league night. i think it would be interesting to hear about some of yours.
Click to expand...

If you have that situation, quickly grab the cueball and start shooting the next shot. Don't acknowledge their argument.
 
ChrisBanks said:
Now what is your problem?
Click to expand...

You're hijacking someone else's thread by posting what you did. This thread is for people to share their league experiences, not for you to post another one of your stupid little moves (a move that you know would be ruled AGAINST YOU!).

Starting your own lame threads for controversy is one thing, but leave others' alone.

<----My last post in this thread no matter how retarded ChrisBanks gets.
 
easy-e said:
You're hijacking someone else's thread by posting what you did. This thread is for people to share their league experiences, not for you to post another one of your stupid little moves (a move that you know would be ruled AGAINST YOU!).

Starting your own lame threads for controversy is one thing, but leave others' alone.

<----My last post in this thread no matter how retarded ChrisBanks gets.
Click to expand...

If it was an obvious foul then you need to pick up the cueball immediately and hold it in your hand. This way you control the game. Your opponent can't take the cueball and prevent you from shooting. Now, you can place the cueball down and immediately start shooting. This is the only solution to someone who is trying to cheat like this.
 
ChrisBanks said:
If it was an obvious foul then you need to pick up the cueball immediately and hold it in your hand. This way you control the game. Your opponent can't take the cueball and prevent you from shooting. Now, you can place the cueball down and immediately start shooting. This is the only solution to someone who is trying to cheat like this.
Click to expand...


This is not good advice at all. This is from the APA 8ball rules:

If any of the following fouls are committed, the penalty is ball-in-hand for the incoming player. Make certain you have ball-in-hand
before you touch the cue ball. Confirm it with your
opponent before touching the cue ball.

Causing even the slightest movement or altering the course of the cue
ball, even accidentally, is a foul. Even dropping the chalk on the cue ball
is a foul.

http://www.poolplayers.com/documents/2012-Team-Manual-FINAL_LR.PDF
 
ChrisBanks said:
I'm talking about where the opponent has clearly fouled but refuses to admit it. So you immediately pick up the cueball. And I think anyone who plays knows this move.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately APA rules are structured so the person shooting has the last word on whether the hit was legal or not. If a 3rd party is not watching and the opponent disagrees you cannot pick up the cue ball. If you do you have committed a foul by touching the cue ball and they get BIH right back.
 
TheNewSharkster said:
This is not good advice at all. This is from the APA 8ball rules:

If any of the following fouls are committed, the penalty is ball-in-hand for the incoming player. Make certain you have ball-in-hand
before you touch the cue ball. Confirm it with your
opponent before touching the cue ball.

Causing even the slightest movement or altering the course of the cue
ball, even accidentally, is a foul. Even dropping the chalk on the cue ball
is a foul.

http://www.poolplayers.com/documents/2012-Team-Manual-FINAL_LR.PDF
Click to expand...

If your opponent is trying to outwardly cheat by saying no foul has been committed, you just grab the cueball, mainly so he cannot keep shooting, Now you have control of the situation. Sometimes I feel like I'm on a different planet in this forum. Because in reality everyone knows this move, it's not new.
 
ChrisBanks said:
If your opponent is trying to outwardly cheat by saying no foul has been committed, you just grab the cueball, mainly so he cannot keep shooting, Now you have control of the situation. Sometimes I feel like I'm on a different planet in this forum. Because in reality everyone knows this move, it's not new.
Click to expand...


What if the opponent honestly thought it was legal? At what point can you say they are cheating? Maybe they saw it differently. Maybe they were cheating. Either way at the end of the day you cannot pick up the cue ball if your opponent doesn't agree they fouled. If you do they now have BIH.

The only defense is submitting a complaint to the LO.
 
TheNewSharkster said:
What if the opponent honestly thought it was legal? At what point can you say they are cheating? Maybe they saw it differently. Maybe they were cheating. Either way at the end of the day you cannot pick up the cue ball if your opponent doesn't agree they fouled. If you do they now have BIH.

The only defense is submitting a complaint to the LO.
Click to expand...

If they see things so differently that they can't distinguish an obvious foul from a good hit, then their is no value in their opinion.

Take my word and pick up the cueball next time. That is the most effective move in this situation.
 
ChrisBanks said:
If they see things so differently that they can't distinguish an obvious foul from a good hit, then their is no value in their opinion.

Take my word and pick up the cueball next time. That is the most effective move in this situation.
Click to expand...


Take your word on it? Maybe you can pull that number in some leagues but in APA this situation is clearly defined in the rules. If you do that you are just giving your opponent BIH which is worse than you shooting without BIH.
 
I wonder if Chris Banks Health insurance provider would drop him if they read these forums.
 
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