Edit::
Wait a minute...you started as a 4 and were trying to hold 3....while killing your teams monster 6?
Holy bejebus!! Really?
Oh hell,I'm lost for words..F it.Good luck.
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Some things ive noticed about my game, now that im playing in the APA regularly
- Thread starter RunoutalloverU
- Start date
Edit::
Wait a minute...you started as a 4 and were trying to hold 3....while killing your teams monster 6?
Holy bejebus!! Really?
Oh hell,I'm lost for words..F it.Good luck.
RunoutalloverU said:
Playing a safety is within the rules and is in keeping with the spirit of the game.
Now, I've never played APA so correct me if I'm wrong, is it true that called safeties are recorded and missed shots that result in a safe are not recorded? Am I also correct that recorded safeties factor into determining your SL ranking? If those cases are true then calling a shot and deliberately missing is cheating and against the spirit and intentions of the rule.
The fact that your teammates are telling you "this is what you need to do" doesn't in any way make it right. You are getting an advantage over other players because you are violating the rules, this is simply wrong.
If your teammates told you to go move a ball when no one was watching, would that somehow not be cheating? I don't see any difference between deliberately moving a ball when no one is looking and deliberately playing in such a way as to keep your rating lower then it should be. Both violate the rules and both give you an unfair advantage over your opponent.
I?m not trying to preach or flame here, but I strongly disagree with your analogy that what your doing is somehow in line with playing a safety.
Actually, what you are doing is CHEATING.RunoutalloverU said:
You may not want to face up to it. You may justify your own position, ad infinitem (as is typical of people in general, not necessarily you) in this case. You may not want to admit wrong.
True, there are other factors (as is always the case)... But looking solely at what you are doing, is CHEATING.
If you shoot a shot without a full effort to make the shot, then it should be recorded as a safety. Marking it as a defensive shot is appropriate. Doing anything else, would be CHEATING.
Cheaters will often justify their position by arguing grey area to conflate and confuse the issue as much as they can. Or another typical response is well everyone else is doing it.... It's of no matter. All in all it's clear cut.
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RunoutalloverU said:
Missing on purpose is not cheating. However it should be marked as a defensive/safety shot. Anytime you don't try and pocket a ball. This is even on kick shots.
I like how you say that your SL6 can't beat you. Anybody is beatable in an APA race.
I am a SL7 and really don't care what rating a guy is that I am playing. I play well enough to outrun a SL or two off. APA 8 ball on a bar table is
too clustered and to think that even the top guys are going to run out.
Even if you were a 7 hiding at a SL4 at times it wont matter. A couple weeks ago I beat another 7 5-0 in three innnings. He had one open chance at the table. Not every week is that way but even if clustered I believe I can adapt and out move a lower rated player.
When you played the 6 as a 4 did you try to win????
LOVE these posts.
Bar table eight ball APA style at SL5 and below usually involves a guy committing a failed runout, game after game. Many SL6 shooters shoot no better than your SL5s, but know how to close, how to win. These are the guys who are tough to beat, and we know who they are.
If you can use some of basic principles (Phil Cappelle's Play your Best Eight Ball comes to mind) people are describing, you can beat a large portion of eight ball players with a little forethought and planning, regardless of their shooting ability, to a point, of course.
As was said, your typical eight ball break on a bar table has two or three clusters, shadow balls, or blocked pockets. Even top flight pros can't break out of all of these consistently, every time. Even the top guys will duck for cover and play a safe rather than risk a low percentage cluster break.
This is why I LOVE eight ball; there is so much to think about, so many paths, patterns, and the outcome is almost always in question until the eight ball is sank.
IMO there is nothing better than watching two master technicians on a bar table shooting eight ball, IMO.
Bar table eight ball APA style at SL5 and below usually involves a guy committing a failed runout, game after game. Many SL6 shooters shoot no better than your SL5s, but know how to close, how to win. These are the guys who are tough to beat, and we know who they are.
If you can use some of basic principles (Phil Cappelle's Play your Best Eight Ball comes to mind) people are describing, you can beat a large portion of eight ball players with a little forethought and planning, regardless of their shooting ability, to a point, of course.
As was said, your typical eight ball break on a bar table has two or three clusters, shadow balls, or blocked pockets. Even top flight pros can't break out of all of these consistently, every time. Even the top guys will duck for cover and play a safe rather than risk a low percentage cluster break.
This is why I LOVE eight ball; there is so much to think about, so many paths, patterns, and the outcome is almost always in question until the eight ball is sank.
IMO there is nothing better than watching two master technicians on a bar table shooting eight ball, IMO.
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RunoutalloverU said:
Definitely cheating!! First off safeties are marked and go against your innings so if you don't mark every safety then it's cheating... Ex. If you win in 10 innings but have 5 safeties then you really won in 5 innings because the 5 safeties were missed on purpose. If you don't mark the safeties or miss on purpose then you won in 10 innings and it looks like you played worse then what you actually did. So if your team mate keeping score isn't marking the safeties then he is cheating also.
RunoutalloverU said:
I think you have kind of described the difference between a weak SL7 and a strong SL7.
A weak SL7 tends to miss the mark of B&R. A strong SL7 will see the trouble balls and find a way to break those balls up while pocketing a ball (similiar to str8 pool-secondary breaks), and run it out.
I think the guilt you feel is due to you holding back your game. In doing this, you are holding back the progression of your game. If you want to become a better player, then you have to strive to play your best, every time.
I love to watch an opponent run out to the last ball and leave no shot. My favorite saying upon coming to the table in this situation is, "I hope you don't expect to ever see that ball again
I like to refer to this situation as "8 ball suicide." You are exactly right, a good player will never let him see his ball again.
I like to refer to this situation as "8 ball suicide." You are exactly right, a good player will never let him see his ball again.
You are cheating!
When reading the first couple of paragraphs in your post asking for assistance with your 8 ball, I was ready to give you a couple of things that I teach to my students that I get paid 45 an hour teach. That's what we do on this forum.
Until I got to the last paragraph.
I'm sure that Tonya Harding's friends thought it was good "strategy" to go hit Nancy Kerrigan in the leg. We all agree it was wrong for Tonya to try to "gain an advantage" in this way. It is cheating! If your team members told you to go jump in front of a car, would ya? Really...
Even in time outs, the opinion from your coach is just a suggestion, not a cold order. In the end it is still your match, and you should play it that way. You should really find another team to play on. The poster before me hit on the head when he wrote that you are only holding back your own game, your own progression. It is too bad that you like to win in this way, I feel badly for you.
You are lying. You are being dishonest. And you are ok with that?
girlwon1 <----- APA 7 and 9
When reading the first couple of paragraphs in your post asking for assistance with your 8 ball, I was ready to give you a couple of things that I teach to my students that I get paid 45 an hour teach. That's what we do on this forum.
Until I got to the last paragraph.
I'm sure that Tonya Harding's friends thought it was good "strategy" to go hit Nancy Kerrigan in the leg. We all agree it was wrong for Tonya to try to "gain an advantage" in this way. It is cheating! If your team members told you to go jump in front of a car, would ya? Really...
Even in time outs, the opinion from your coach is just a suggestion, not a cold order. In the end it is still your match, and you should play it that way. You should really find another team to play on. The poster before me hit on the head when he wrote that you are only holding back your own game, your own progression. It is too bad that you like to win in this way, I feel badly for you.
You are lying. You are being dishonest. And you are ok with that?
girlwon1 <----- APA 7 and 9
As far as I'm concerned, I'm going to run out every rack of 8-ball I play. Within reason -- for example, I'm not going to try to run out a poor break.
"No", I don't run out every rack of 8-ball. Not even close. But I see opportunities all over the table and I feel it comes down to my execution if I'm not successful. I actually enjoy breaking out clusters. I will play defense, but I almost always see a way to run out a rack.
On the flipside, it's probably this singlemindedness that prevents me from winning more games.
"No", I don't run out every rack of 8-ball. Not even close. But I see opportunities all over the table and I feel it comes down to my execution if I'm not successful. I actually enjoy breaking out clusters. I will play defense, but I almost always see a way to run out a rack.
On the flipside, it's probably this singlemindedness that prevents me from winning more games.
Derek said:
Since this is a forum about pool, mainly, a forum for those who wish to improve their game, skills, practice techniques, and general overall knowledge, I would say this kind of thinking is going backward.
But, rejoice, you are the majority of league shooters who show up every night and who frequent bar table eight ball in a tavern; who cares, have fun! You may even run a few racks you may have missed if you played overly cautious.
Positive encouraging signs...
Good to see that there are so many people with enough honor and honesty in this thread to speak out against low life activity/cheating. That's what will make pool better for at least the recreational and/or league pool players. I think continually bringing honor and integrity to the game will be beneficial for pool's future.
Good to see that there are so many people with enough honor and honesty in this thread to speak out against low life activity/cheating. That's what will make pool better for at least the recreational and/or league pool players. I think continually bringing honor and integrity to the game will be beneficial for pool's future.
rlw said:
Being capable of running and executing a run are two very different things. My problem is mental, lapse of focus and at times poor judgement. I do record any intentional miss ie moving a ball in front of a pocket, and safe shots. I critique each lose to try and identify where it went wrong, and try to learn from the mistake and not repeat it.
My goal is to move up to an sl5 this session (had the same goal last session) We have a ton of 4's in the league and very few 7's. I would be considered a strong 4. I try to win matches without handicap coming into play. A 3-1 win is much more satisfying than a 3-4 win. The 3-4 might be a win for the team, but it is a personal defeat because my opponent won more games than me. That spells loss in my book and it isn't satisfying personally to be declared the winner of something I didn't win.
Banger
frankncali said:
We didn't play APA of course! There have been a 6 or 7 occasions where we have played some medium length races usually to 10. And ive won them all handily.
Gregg said:
excellent post, your right about pros not being able to break out every cluster every time.
ok ok I get it. I didn't know that they marked down safeties and a whole separate category. So now that makes everything pretty clear. Im just going to go out and try to win from now on. Im still trying, as my little sheet says to, "learn the language" of the APA.
And now I can start to get some of those cool break and run pins!
And now I can start to get some of those cool break and run pins!
RunoutalloverU said:
That sounds great. I am glad that you chose to read the posts here and have changed your mind to play more honestly. You will have a better time I promise you!
When I come back to class, I will respond about your first two paragraphs. I hope I will be apart of those who have already responded that will help you in your 8 ball strategy!
Regards,
girlwon1
