Someone explain Black Boar prices to me.

[JCIN]

I have owned many high end cues. I have hit balls with two Black Boars both older cues, quality cues but nothing special to me. I understand the whole "It's worth what someone will pay for it" deal.

I have looked at the Black Boar site and in my opinion it is the slickest and most well designed site in the pool world. Somebody is either very good or spent some money to get that done. It is nice.

I am not knocking any of the work. It is good stuff. Like I said I remember when Black Boar was on par with Scruggs or Mottey. I was just curious how his prices reached the stratosphere. Remember, I am guy who paid $2K for a plain Prewitt with no inlays and felt it was well worth it. I understand quality and workmanship has a premium.

What I don't get is things like a Searing Sneaky Pete(which looked like a nice Dufferin conversion) with prices of $2K plus and plain cues for $3K+ cause it has BB instead of G or JW. But hey the whole no supply thing has worked for DPK so I guess there is a precedent.

Personally I feel Prewitt's pointed cues and all of Haley's work is right there with Black Boar. Maybe they are under priced ?

Thanks to everyone for there opinions and information and for taking the original post in the spirit in which it was intended. Best wishes to Black Boar now and in the future.

 

[JCIN]

when they are used properly I believe they expand the players realm of what is possible within the laws of physics in the game of billiards.

CS

Just saw this.

Laying it on a little thick aren't you.

Somebody get John to do his "Paint a 100 cues black" speech.

I agree with the cue as art argument, I agree with fine craftsmanship deserving a premium.

But you lose me at:

"when they are used properly I believe they expand the players realm of what is possible within the laws of physics in the game of billiards."

That is damn good ad copy though.

 

[jay helfert]

Just saw this.

Laying it on a little thick aren't you.

Somebody get John to do his "Paint a 100 cues black" speech.

I agree with the cue as art argument, I agree with fine craftsmanship deserving a premium.

But you lose me at:

"when they are used properly I believe they expand the players realm of what is possible within the laws of physics in the game of billiards."

That is damn good ad copy though.

I liked that line too. I have a funny feeling that to use them "properly" you must first play like Busty.

 

[JCIN]

I liked that line too. I have a funny feeling that to use them "properly" you must first play like Busty.

Maybe thats the secret. Tony puts a little bit of Busty's tears in the finish of each cue.

Bustamante won his first pro event using a Black Boar that was loaned to him by Dieter Eisele, a cue dealer in Germany. According to Dieter, Bustamante was almost in tears when he acquired the Bear Cues (Made by Falcon) sponsorship and had to give back the Black Boar.

 

[JAM]

Allen plays w/ a Black Boar Jenny........A sweet stick it is!

That's right. I had forgotten that. Allen does have a custom-made Black Boar cue that was made to his specifications and the way he hits 'em.

Tony had made cues for several pro players. He usually sits down with them and watches them hit balls and then determines where to place the balance and other specificiations that suit the player's style of play.

Suyen Rhee (sp), local WPBA player in my area, also uses a custom-made Black Boar cue, as I recall.

At a Joss tourney held at Drexeline Billiards in Pennsylvania, I snapped a picture of Allen Hopkins' Black Boar. The other cue in the picture is Allen's break cue. I can't remember the name of it, but Allen said he's had this break cue for MANY years.

JAM

 

[JAM]

Here's a better shot of Allen Hopkins' Black Boar cue. I still can't remember the name of the break cue he uses, but it's very old. Allen swears by this break cue!

JAM

 

[JAM]

BTW, at Drexeline Billiards, Allen Hopkins, playing with is Black Boar cue, came in second place in a tough field of contenders, to include Jose Parica, Karen Corr, Shawn Wilkie, Dennis Hatch, Joe DiPietro, Pooky, just to name a few!

Oh, the memories! I love this trophy, a grand first place for my horse!

In sum, it ain't the cue that makes the player. It's the player that makes the cue work right!

JAM

 

[JCIN]

Here's a better shot of Allen Hopkins' Black Boar cue. I still can't remember the name of the break cue he uses, but it's very old. Allen swears by this break cue!

JAM

Looks like Allen threw some tennis racquet tape on that bad boy.

 

[JAM]

Looks like Allen threw some tennis racquet tape on that bad boy.

You know, I was checking that out, too! It looks like thick white corduroy.

Kind of a no-stick grip wrap!

JAM

 

[John Barton]

That break cue of Allen's is a Huebler. Huebler was probably the first company to offer a break/jump cue.

 

[alpine9430]

Looks like Allen threw some tennis racquet tape on that bad boy.

I was thinking the same thing just before I saw your post.
Good eye!

Myron

 

[Scaramouche]

Close-ups of Hopkins' cue (if this works)

 

[JAM]

That break cue of Allen's is a Huebler. Huebler was probably the first company to offer a break/jump cue.

Wow, what a good eye! You are quite the pool cue aficionado!

JAM

 

[JAM]

Close-ups of Hopkins' cue (if this works)

Is that a different Hopkins' cue than the Black Boar? It doesn't look like the same design to my eye!

JAM

 

[Matt_24]

I think you're right JAM.

I heard Bus Driver Ronnie sold his BB cue. Guess he got an offer he couldn't refuse.

 

[Murray Tucker]

I am curious. How the hell did these cues get where they are. The catalog cues I have seen are pretty pedestrian. Nothing revolutionary there. The "New" cues ,which if what has been posted here is correct, go from around $8K to $25K+ and while interesting seem wildly overpriced.

I can see that for a legend like Bushka or Boti maybe even a Gina. But when did Tony Scianella (sp) become a living legend on par with these guys? I am not knocking Tony at all I think he makes a quality cue. I also think he has the best marketing of any cuemaker ever.

I am genuinely curious. I have fooled with custom cues on and off for about 10 years. I remember when Black Boar was just another cue. Now they are magic. What happened? Is it just a case of tapping into the "Mine is bigger than yours" demographic?

That would be like trying to explain Martin Guitar pricing. I mean why would anyone buy one when you can get a Esteban for three easy payments of 49.99 right?

Look at the cue as a instrument. Fine instruments, much like fine timepieces and cars, bring a premium price.

 

[DawgAndy]

Yup, cues are very reasonably priced for the work and materials involved when compare to stringed instruments. There aren't many for under 1k.
It's very simple, if the price is too high don't buy.

Andy

 

[Snap9]

Now from my small base of knowledge comes this tidbit of information.

BB's are sold exclusively to 2 dealers. One of these dealers is more of a collector than a dealer and is located in the US. The other dealer is "Lucky" which if I remember correctly is based in Asia somewhere. The US dealer/collector rarely sells his stable of cues whereas the Asian dealers sells, sells and sells. The other few remaining BB's are made for pros and some of Tony's friends.

This is a great way to increase the price of any product anywhere. Very limited supply coming from a very small distribution market. Sad part is that the only real dealer you can buy from with just paying the over-inflated price is overseas. The other sad part is most of the BB's contain IVORY even though it procured within the US makes these cues almost impossible to get back to the US. Shipping IVORY in cues out of the US is easy, but ultimately rediculous to get back to the US.

All the above information leads to the very high market prices.

Now I have hit with a few BB's and the hit is good, but no different in my opinion than some 20-30 other cuemakers' products. To me all you are doing is buying a name. Ofcourse, this holds true with many other top-tier makers producing cues in the 3K++ area.

 

[Matt_24]

Craig,

The credit/story you're giving is slightly vague.

So - from what I've just read the only work Tony did on the original cues was design the inlays. His son created them on CAD and then wrapped and finished them? His brother Raymond did something right? It doesn't say on the website.

Why is Tony Sr. getting all of the credit in the original post but he didn't really do anything on the 1st gen of cues from what I've read. Perhaps the website (which is very entertaining to browse by the way, good job) needs to be a little more specific?

Seems as though you should give Tim Scruggs/Bill McDaniels/Mike Cochran much more credit anytime you mention the first catalogue of Black Boar cues. I guess then I have to ask, would a Tim Scruggs cue equivalent in design and inlay bring the same prices as these 1st gen Black Boars?

I'm just trying to clarify things for myself. I'm a bit confused.

Thanks,

 

[Matt_24]

When you look at how the cues are made + assembled and the incredible attention to detail, quality of materials and engineering that goes into these cues, coupled with how well they hold up over time and how well they play- to me it is no suprise that Tonys cues have risen in value, I believe they are all diamonds in the rough. The website I created shows, in great detail how these cues are made and tells of some of his engineering and balancing. His older cues have pretty much doubled in value and some of the newer cues have tripled and even quadrupled in value. Cues basicly fall into 3 catagories
4pt, 6pt and 8pt - the reason for this is because of the level of detail, quality and engineering grew over the years as Tony was making cues.
This is also indicitive by the number of cues he is able to build in a year.

My best observations in the values of BB cues is basicly:
4pt=$2,500+
6pt=$4,000+
8pt=$7,000+ for older 8 pointers
8pt=$14,000+ for the newer 8 pointers

These values are not just my interpretation, but High end cue collectors all over the world are realizing how rare his cues are since I posted the actual quanities of cues he made over the years.

Thanks
Craig

I must say, that is the BEST cuemaker website on the internet in my opinion. Countless photos, pictures, stories, etc to peruse. I will wholeheartedly agree with JCIN - Tony's marketing is the best! Good business for sure. Just a few unanswered questions from me (in my previous post) that perhaps need some slight clarification.