Fran,
I agree it's doubt, lack of trust, that feeds slow play. As to your 'on the clock' & improvement, do you mean, in time to shoot or level of proficiency that improves?
Best Regards,
Soooooo, I'm a slow player.........
- Thread starter fathomblue
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Fran,
I agree it's doubt, lack of trust, that feeds slow play. As to your 'on the clock' & improvement, do you mean, in time to shoot or level of proficiency that improves?
Best Regards,
Did I misunderstand? I thought you meant that you would stand at the table while he is shooting, waiting for your turn. I'm not accusing you of sharking. My point was more to not showing an 'Achilese Heel' of disdain for slow play as it gives perhaps an equal ability opponent amunition to get you out of your game.
Regards,
i was saying if i notice the player is purposely trying to play really slow against me as a strategy, I will give him safety after safety after safety and drag each game out as long as I possibly can. I am pretty smart when it comes to safety play also
Since Sean was wondering, the reason I started the topic name as, "Soooooo....",.....is because I was saying the word "so"......slowly. On a topic about slow play.
It's supposed to be a bit of a joke. Sometimes things don't come across the way they should on a message board.
It's supposed to be a bit of a joke. Sometimes things don't come across the way they should on a message board.
you seem to have some nice cue's there! whats up with that lol :wink:
Please post a picture of yourself so I can avoid you at all costs!
Slow play makes me crazy, even in 1P.
When I encounter a snail in the pool room I automatically think they are doing it deliberately to get under my skin, which makes me agitated.
Of course I realize this may not be you, and clearly the game does not come as easily to you as to others, which is fair. But I still want to avoid playing you unless we clash in a tournament!
No offense.
You can't help but play at your pace, and I can't help the fact that I have no patience with slow players. Too many opponents out there to have to tolerate that.
Good luck on your journey, slow as it may be.
Pick it up a little bit.
@ Fathomblue.....
You're hurting yourself by playing slow.
you should only need the amount of time to make the right shot selection, decide on how to execute it and then get down on the shot and shoot when you're comfortable.
This should take on average 20 seconds. I understand that when you have problem balls to work out this might take a bit longer.
Any time you take beyond that is time for you to let doubt into your mind and second guess yourself. The more time you take before shooting also adds to the pressure you might feel to shoot a shot(any shot).
Be confident, be decisive, make a plan and execute it.
@ Fathomblue.....
You're hurting yourself by playing slow.
you should only need the amount of time to make the right shot selection, decide on how to execute it and then get down on the shot and shoot when you're comfortable.
This should take on average 20 seconds. I understand that when you have problem balls to work out this might take a bit longer.
Any time you take beyond that is time for you to let doubt into your mind and second guess yourself. The more time you take before shooting also adds to the pressure you might feel to shoot a shot(any shot).
Be confident, be decisive, make a plan and execute it.
Well, I'm extremely lucky to play in a pool room that has a BCA Instructor (Bob Nunley, who has posted in this thread) and Gary Johnson, a very good cuemaker. Gary is probably pretty unknown throughout the country, but people around here turn to him for an excellent-hitting custom cue.
Let the record show that Gary is the guy I probably drive the craziest with my slow pace of play. :sorry: I'm lucky that he's a nice guy and is still willing to do cue work for me. Altho, in fairness to me, Gary hates 1-pocket, Bank Pool or anything pool-related that takes more than 10 seconds. He steps to the plate, hits 'em and runs out, or misses and sits down. With that said, he's a very good player.
As for my cues..........the first "nice" cue I ever bought was the Meucci 333-5 in my signature. I NEVER, EVER felt comfortable with that thing. I played with it for a couple of years till I quit the game. When I started back last year, after a 15-year hiatus, I was still using it. Finally, one day Bob and Gary each picked up my cue to demonstrate some shots for me and within 2 minutes I thought they were going to break it over my head. They cursed the Meucci and said it was trash. Lol. Anyway, Gary and I got together on a custom and he's made me a nice player that I'm in love with. I used to consciously think about the cue in my hand, but not anymore. Heck, I'd never really shot with anyone else's cue, so I didn't know what I was missing.
I came across the Dufferin breaker several months ago by mere good fortune. Picked it up for a song and it breaks well. Now I need to continue practicing my break for better results, but I sure can't fault the cue. I did notice the other day that the ferrule has developed a crack, so it's days may be numbered. It would make a nice back-up breaker or one to take to a bar. I've talked to Gary about building me a custom breaker, but we're still up in the air on it.
I had an inexpensive jump cue for a few months that I learned the basics with, but when I saw the chance to have Steve Lomax build me a custom jumper, I went for it. I love it.
When I decided to put my heart into the game last year, getting good equipment was at the top of my list. I wanted cues that I could get extremely comfortable with and allow them to grow old with me. Once I get a nice breaker, I'll be there.
As for something else Bob talked about, let me explain it like this.......
The first time I picked up a cue and decided to do more than bang the balls around, I was 17 or 18. I thought it would be "cool" to be good. I bought a cheap, crappy table (the same one I have today, but I've re-done it and it's decent for a budget home table). I got a Dufferin cue at Wal-Mart to shoot with (it really was a solid cue, to be honest) and started hitting balls for a few months. I bought Ray Martin's "99 Critical Shots...", plus a couple of Robert Byrne's book and practiced offensive shots.
With all that said, I never had a lesson up to that point. No one ever talked to me about my stroke. I never really played defense. I obviously tried to play shape, but it was mostly achieved thru luck. I eventually got married and gave up the game for 15 long years.
So, when things changed in my life (moved back to Arkansas after a divorce, got a new job, etc. etc.), I rededicated myself to pool. I needed an outlet in my life. I always felt like something was missing, but I couldn't ever put a finger on it. Then one day, for whatever reason, it hit me that I missed pool. Plain and simple. But this time around, I was lucky enough to get to know people a room that were willing to share things on so many facets of the game that I never even thought about.
If you really wanted to frame it this way.....this is the 2nd year of the rest of my life (in pool). Might was well toss those couple of years away from long ago. They're nothing but a hazy memory of playing bangers in bars anyway.
Within in the past 12 months:
1. I've gotten a handful of lessons from BCA Instructor Bob Nunley.
2. Gotten a lesson from pro Adam Smith. Then actually played a short set against him for fun. Adam is very nice and gave me some drills to check my stroke with. Also worked on my mental things and my expectations as far as what I wanted out of the game of pool.
3. Played a very good amateur, Robert Frost, in 1-pocket at the Southern Classic in Tunica. It was the first match I've ever played in a BIG tournament. Nerve-wracking to say the least. Especially when I had exactly less than 5 games of 1-pocket in my life under my belt. I entered at the last minute for the experience and to support the tournament, as it was in it's first year.
4. Played Charlie Mora in 9-ball at the Southern Classic. I lost 7-5. Played the best pool of my life and it was the most fun I've ever had in a match. Charlie just missed cashing at the U.S. Open as of yesterday. He's a strong player.
5. Played Jeremy Sossei in the loser's bracket of 9-ball at the Southern Classic. He pounded me 7-1. No shame in that. He's a monster and he just cashed at this year's U.S. Open. I was just honored to share a table with him, not to mention steal a game while I was there.
6. Got a quick, quick mini-lesson from John Brumback. And what I got out of him was like gold. I also picked his brain for 10 days in Tunica and still occasionally talk to him when I have questions. He's a guy I want to spend a day with just letting him mold me into a better player. Someday soon, I will. He pounded it into my head to look, act and think like a pro. Study what they do and why.
7. Met Geno Albrecht for a good 30+ minute lesson over aiming and eye position. Very good stuff.
8. Just got one of those "gangbang" lessons that Bob referred to from both Johnny Archer and Nick Varner. Had a complete blast. I was even able to play Scotch Doubles with Nick as my partner as against Johnny and another local. Ended up playing the Scorpion the next day in a game of 8-ball and actually won after I ran the last 7 balls out. I was a bit light-headed when that happened. Lol.
9. Got a great lesson from an ex-road player that prefers not to be mentioned. He helped me with what I'm actually aiming at, not to mention banking. I'd like to work with him some more, but I rarely see the guy.
10. Gotten some tips and feedback from the best player in our room. He's a pretty good amateur and has been Arkansas state champion several times.
And there's probably more. But, needless to say.........YES, I have A LOT of stuff swirling in my head. But, I love to learn. I've loved everything I've done pool-related, since I've started back. Maybe it's been too much, too soon.....but at some point, I'm hoping if I keep practicing, my mind will begin to quiet down a bit and allow my sub-conscious to tell my body the right things to do. At that point, I hope I can REALLY start to enjoy the game.
Right now........I enjoy it, but it feels like work. And as someone said above, after a couple of tough matches in a row, I'm mentally and physically exhausted.
It's like a whirlwind of pool swirling around in my skull. And I would understand if the majority of you guys never want to play me. I understand. I do. I can't begrudge you.
I'm doing my best to get better, so that someday the game will come more "naturally" and subconsciously to me. So that if someone turns me down for a game, it's because of my skill, not my pace. :wink:
Should I consciously try to speed up my play a bit and hope I can adjust to it? Should I put myself on an internal shot clock? Is this normal when an amateur changes so many things about their game? Should I keep on keepin' on and let my pace be what it is?
Or am I "that guy" that you all dread playing?
Any comments would be appreciated.
You should do whatever you want, and how you want. Just remember the consequences of that decision. There are also consequences to playing faster.
I feel like I have a lot of patience, but in pool I don't. I hate watching C players take a minute and a half to make a ball six inches from the pocket. And then watch them do it again for every other shot.
There's a really good player at my hall that always asks for a game, and I always oblige because he's a good player. But dammit if I don't think about how long each game will take every time he asks, and lots of times I shoot balls on an adjacent table because really, I want to practice for that minute you're figuring out the shot you're going to miss. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but my mind works in other ways. I see more efficiency in practicing my own game while the other player figures out his.
Ultimately, it comes down to the benefits for you. Are you winning because slow playing helps you focus better? Then do it. Do you find yourself more comfortable shooting by slow playing? Then do it. Watch the Landon Shuffet and Earl Strickland 10-Ball match. Landon plays very methodically and slow, but his incredible shot making and position playing make it a thing of beauty. And in the end, if you're beating one of the best players in the game with slow play, does it really matter?
Lol, may I ask why you've had this sudden change of heart?
Sorry I can't address every individual response I've had on here. Kinda tough when part of this I'm reading on my phone and other parts I'm just sneaking a peak while at work.
I am reading every post and taking to heart all the suggestions, tho. Thanks again to everyone.
In regards to the original post, I believe that slow play, while effective for some players, has some real disadvantages. This is all subjective however, so take it for what it is.
I believe that if you take two players of equal skill, where player A is a slow, methodical player and player B is a more natural, rhythmic player, the faster player will have the advantage. Why? Simply because they burn less time and energy in order to score. During the course of a match, a fast player might get a great break, and run out in under a minute. Maybe they get a couple rolls and some good run out opportunities, and all of a sudden they're up 3 games before you even know what happened. Say they break dry, and now in comes the slow player. They lap the table, studying, analyzing, and trying to take into account every possible outcome. Maybe they make a few balls, get a little out of line, analyze the situation some more, play a safety, get back to the table, analyze some more, put their entire heart and soul into every simple shot, and ten minutes later they finally slide a single bead over to their side. Even if the players are of equal skill, I'm betting on the faster guy.
I was watching a match a while back with John Schmidt commentating, and he said something to the general effect of "If a shot is easy, treat it like it's easy. Don't waste your energy on the simple stuff. You're never going to run high numbers if you're agonizing over every ball." I think there is a lot of truth in that.
So I guess in general my advice would be to do what you have to do in order to play your best game... Just don't turn a hill into a mountain! Trust your instincts, have faith in your alignment, swing that cue straight, and simply allow yourself to do what you know how to do.
Edit to add: This may sound kinda silly, but it's something to think about. Let's say you practice for one hour, and you shoot one shot every forty seconds. Another player practices for one hour and shoots a shot every 20 seconds. Over the course of one hour, they've hit twice as many balls. Who's more likely to improve more quickly?
I believe that if you take two players of equal skill, where player A is a slow, methodical player and player B is a more natural, rhythmic player, the faster player will have the advantage. Why? Simply because they burn less time and energy in order to score. During the course of a match, a fast player might get a great break, and run out in under a minute. Maybe they get a couple rolls and some good run out opportunities, and all of a sudden they're up 3 games before you even know what happened. Say they break dry, and now in comes the slow player. They lap the table, studying, analyzing, and trying to take into account every possible outcome. Maybe they make a few balls, get a little out of line, analyze the situation some more, play a safety, get back to the table, analyze some more, put their entire heart and soul into every simple shot, and ten minutes later they finally slide a single bead over to their side. Even if the players are of equal skill, I'm betting on the faster guy.
I was watching a match a while back with John Schmidt commentating, and he said something to the general effect of "If a shot is easy, treat it like it's easy. Don't waste your energy on the simple stuff. You're never going to run high numbers if you're agonizing over every ball." I think there is a lot of truth in that.
So I guess in general my advice would be to do what you have to do in order to play your best game... Just don't turn a hill into a mountain! Trust your instincts, have faith in your alignment, swing that cue straight, and simply allow yourself to do what you know how to do.
Edit to add: This may sound kinda silly, but it's something to think about. Let's say you practice for one hour, and you shoot one shot every forty seconds. Another player practices for one hour and shoots a shot every 20 seconds. Over the course of one hour, they've hit twice as many balls. Who's more likely to improve more quickly?
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Sammy, Justin is doing everything he can to improve and it will come. The slow play... well, if he can get that right brain kicking, that will go away. Even if it doesn't and he gets it down to 20 or 30 seconds per shot, so what... I can live with it.
Three of us were playing last night. All of us, along with Justin, will be in Lafayette in a couple of weeks. The four travelling together. We talked about Justin (sorry, buddy, but you know us... if you don't want to be the topic of conversation, you better show up!). Seriously, nothing bad. We talked about his speed of play a little, but more than that we talked about his enthusiasm for the game and his willingness to do whatever he has to in order to bring his game to the next level. We ALL like Justin, but more importantly, we respect that undying enthusiasm for pool that he has.
He will get there... we'll drill it into him until he plays like WE want him to (that was typed with a laugh, so please don't take it seriously) :smile:
Bob
It's a small room that I play in, but a good room. It's obviously pretty tough being the lowest rated player and underdog there 99% of the time, but it forces me to scratch and claw for every game.
Everyone gets along pretty well. Lots of interesting pool history and memorabilia is hanging on the walls and ceiling all around us. No indoor smoking. No drinking. No video games. Just pool.
Just the way I like it. Now, about the Olhausens we play on.............ugh.
Everyone gets along pretty well. Lots of interesting pool history and memorabilia is hanging on the walls and ceiling all around us. No indoor smoking. No drinking. No video games. Just pool.
Just the way I like it. Now, about the Olhausens we play on.............ugh.
UPDATE! We went to our local pool room tonight and Justin stepped up his speed... in more ways than one. I don't think he noticed it as much, but he was making more balls and getting better position than he normally does. Me and the stop watch on my cell phone went to work again (the instructor in me couldn't help it!) and on one 7 ball run he had, his average from the time the cue ball quit rolling until the time he hit his next shot was about between 10 and 12 seconds... MUCH BETTER! I think as he adjusts he'll get even better. He's taking some of the conscious thought out of the process and just letting that old right brain go to work.
Fun night, as is ANY night playing pool... no tournament, just a bunch of friends playing cheap pool heads up followed by a session of blind draw scotch doubles. Justin and I drew each other on the last game, the one that we call the "Championship Game" and took down two master players... he shot well, and I hope he realizes that everyone else in the room noticed that his game picked up when he found a rhythm that took him from ball to ball a LOT faster!
Congrats, Justin... your old gray bearded instructor was very proud of the way you played tonight, and your new pace... loved it!
Bob
Fun night, as is ANY night playing pool... no tournament, just a bunch of friends playing cheap pool heads up followed by a session of blind draw scotch doubles. Justin and I drew each other on the last game, the one that we call the "Championship Game" and took down two master players... he shot well, and I hope he realizes that everyone else in the room noticed that his game picked up when he found a rhythm that took him from ball to ball a LOT faster!
Congrats, Justin... your old gray bearded instructor was very proud of the way you played tonight, and your new pace... loved it!
Bob
TheThaiger
Banned
Don't sweat it. Some people don't get jokes on messageboards - except their own, of course...
As Bob said, things went well last night. My pace of my play was much, much quicker.
To be honest, at first, I didn't know if it was going to work out. I was shooting ok, but at times it felt like we were all just bangin' balls around. And I don't like bangers. But, I ended up settling in and it turned out ok. I ran a few racks of 10-ball down to the 10, but couldn't finish. Just mental stuff.
I think what bothered me at first was it felt like the mental stimulation of lookin at the table and solving the puzzle was gone. Auto-pilot is a very tough thing to (un)wrap my mind around.
Hopefully I'll keep progressing and my skill "speed" will start to match my pace.
To be honest, at first, I didn't know if it was going to work out. I was shooting ok, but at times it felt like we were all just bangin' balls around. And I don't like bangers. But, I ended up settling in and it turned out ok. I ran a few racks of 10-ball down to the 10, but couldn't finish. Just mental stuff.
I think what bothered me at first was it felt like the mental stimulation of lookin at the table and solving the puzzle was gone. Auto-pilot is a very tough thing to (un)wrap my mind around.
Hopefully I'll keep progressing and my skill "speed" will start to match my pace.