Southwest cues - reasons for their popularity

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One other thing to add to this discussion, which is purely my opinion:

I think SW’s are the smartest cues to buy to hold value and store $. Barry’s & Gus’s are next only because the price point is much higher on them. All 3 are equally “safe” bets.

There are other cue makers out there that are probably equally safe, I just don’t know the market well enough to mention them.

I have lots of Tads because I like them, they haven’t went up much in value-and that’s ok, I’m not in it for the $.

But if I was in it for the $. I’d buy mostly SW’s to hold or flip. They are rock solid and will be for a very long time.

This is just my opinion and I’m not always right. But I’m confident enough to put my $ where my mouth Is, I have lots of SW’s.

Best
Fatboy😃
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
I've owned two SW cues built by Jerry Franklin in the mid 80's. I've also owned a real George Balabushka. Sold that one for $2500 back in the 80's to a guy in Chicago. But, I love Ned Morris cues. Their "hit" and his workmanship is the best I've known. And, I'm sure there are other cue makers that would feel the same.
 
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greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
I ordered my first SW on July 1 1986- I remember the exact date because it was my dads birthday and I felt bad I was buying something for myself on his Bday. I went to the shop, knocked on the door met Jerry. Rest is history.

Anyways I paid 350$ for a 60” macasser ebony & tulip wood cue. 2 shafts.

Was delivered in April 87 for $374. FedEx was $24 back then lol.

I still have that cue.

I’ve hit balls with 100-150 SW’s over the years. Lots of people would bring them to the pool room after picking up their new cue and play. Living in vegas being at the pool room all day everyday I saw lots of SW’s. They mostly all played great. A few were a bit stiff.

The supply demand thing is why they cost what they do. I own a bunch, none are for sale. Lots of people I know own them and ain’t selling.

After Jerry passed the production numbers dropped, then the internet came along and that blew up sales. Lots of flippers put their name “on the list” because there is $0 deposit. So it’s a total free roll to make a short score.

Big long list, lower production numbers = higher price on the open market. Simple as that.

Are they worth what they are selling for? Yes because they are selling for what the market is at.

Are they really worth that much if there was a a unlimited supply of them like manufactured cues? No, they aren’t worth $7500. They are great cues but not $7500 great. However since they hold their value it’s a safe place to park some $. Possibly one of the “smartest” cues to buy as a store of value.

So what are they worth not considering the market & reasons for their actual value? This is my opinion only and is purely speculative-in todays world they are worth $3500 in terms of the “cue” only not the “market”.

My 2¢

Fatboy😃


Collectible commodities and the retail cost of produced goods are not required to correlate in a free market.

For players high end cues aren’t really worth a dam in regards to inherent utility.

For collectors the price doesn’t give a dam about the products inherent utility.

In a free open market there’s no rules to make that coincide with one another.

If it were all about utility inlays would not exist. The plain 4pt, standard 2-4 vignaux and the merry widow would be the only cues available.

If a player wants just utility buy a cuetek. If they want ornately gorgeous buy high end.

For the free market haters there’s always Russia, I’m sure they have house cues there. Lol
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
Went on the list in mid 2006, have no idea when I will get call, 4 or 6 months ago was maybe 18 months.

Never got price lock, no idea of cost today, 2006 I was think 2500-2800.

Laurie has more on list then can be done in 10 years.

Supply n demand drive prices.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Collectible commodities and the retail cost of produced goods are not required to correlate in a free market.

For players high end cues aren’t really worth a dam in regards to inherent utility.

For collectors the price doesn’t give a dam about the products inherent utility.

In a free open market there’s no rules to make that coincide with one another.

If it were all about utility inlays would not exist. The plain 4pt, standard 2-4 vignaux and the merry widow would be the only cues available.

If a player wants just utility buy a cuetek. If they want ornately gorgeous buy high end.

For the free market haters there’s always Russia, I’m sure they have house cues there. Lol
My Black Boar plays pretty sporty.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
My Black Boar plays pretty sporty.
Oh no doubt. Of course I in no way mean high end cues not being worth it in utility to mean they don’t or can’t have a superior hit and playability…..because most def do

Playability costs up to 2-3k or so…..the other tens of thousands of dollars spent is the decor to said utilitarian device.

Which kind of makes me chuckle as I’m thinking of Harvey Martin whom was famous for not embellishing his cues with inlay….his idea was it effected integrity of the build, and I can totally respect that no problem.

Yet Harvey’s most famous cue has a long tennon for the handle area that has a removable segmented ivory sleeve that becomes the grip area, I believe it came with 2 the other being Birdseye sleeve. Then the buttcap screws on to hold it all in place.

I wonder how much begging the customer had to do to get him to make something that would seem to be against his beliefs of cue construction.

Interesting
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
Oh no doubt. Of course I in no way mean high end cues not being worth it in utility to mean they don’t or can’t have a superior hit and playability…..because most def do

Playability costs up to 2-3k or so…..the other tens of thousands of dollars spent is the decor to said utilitarian device.

Which kind of makes me chuckle as I’m thinking of Harvey Martin whom was famous for not embellishing his cues with inlay….his idea was it effected integrity of the build, and I can totally respect that no problem.

Yet Harvey’s most famous cue has a long tennon for the handle area that has a removable segmented ivory sleeve that becomes the grip area, I believe it came with 2 the other being Birdseye sleeve. Then the buttcap screws on to hold it all in place.

I wonder how much begging the customer had to do to get him to make something that would seem to be against his beliefs of cue construction.

Interesting


Well this playability is a personal thing, and being honest you do not need a 2-3K to play well.

Skill is the magic that make a Cue a magic wand.

Will say it again, and Mike Howerton Aka AZHOUSEPROPRO know who won his Desert Classic Tour consistently, took home all the goodies every year.

DH is guys initials, McDermott with LePro was his Arrow.

His skill made it happen not arrow. Pretty Cues are like Cars. Yugo will get you to work and back, Ferrari will do same thing in style.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Well this playability is a personal thing, and being honest you do not need a 2-3K to play well.

Skill is the magic that make a Cue a magic wand.

Will say it again, and Mike Howerton Aka AZHOUSEPROPRO know who won his Desert Classic Tour consistently, took home all the goodies every year.

DH is guys initials, McDermott with LePro was his Arrow.

His skill made it happen not arrow. Pretty Cues are like Cars. Yugo will get you to work and back, Ferrari will do same thing in style.
No you def don’t need a few thousand in a cue for it to play great.

But the makers that are getting 2k for a nice 4pt 4 veneer cue with basic ring work are making a great product and getting paid solid “wage” for their meticulous labor.

A cue takes anywhere from roughly 12 hrs all the way up to 100 hours of labor depending on the complexity. In my opinion a skilled maker should be making 40-75$ an hour like any other technical specialist trade working for themselves…or they are giving their work away. 20$ on down isn’t even touching the overhead. This doesn’t include waiting periods for drying and curing of adhesives and finishes etc.

What I’m getting at is a quality maker charging 2k for a 4pt 4veneer cue with rings and high end figured and seasoned tone woods, couple shafts…..both maker and player are getting treated well cost wise. If someone wants a 500$ cue personally I think they should just stick with a production cue….and there isn’t one thing wrong with either choice.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
No you def don’t need a few thousand in a cue for it to play great.

But the makers that are getting 2k for a nice 4pt 4 veneer cue with basic ring work are making a great product and getting paid solid “wage” for their meticulous labor.

A cue takes anywhere from roughly 12 hrs all the way up to 100 hours of labor depending on the complexity. In my opinion a skilled maker should be making 40-75$ an hour like any other technical specialist trade working for themselves…or they are giving their work away. 20$ on down isn’t even touching the overhead. This doesn’t include waiting periods for drying and curing of adhesives and finishes etc.

What I’m getting at is a quality maker charging 2k for a 4pt 4veneer cue with rings and high end figured and seasoned tone woods, couple shafts…..both maker and player are getting treated well cost wise. If someone wants a 500$ cue personally I think they should just stick with a production cue….and there isn’t one thing wrong with either choice.


Think a lot of guys n gals who are just recreation players, drive nice cars, have nice cue n cases. Because they have good jobs, or money in bank.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Oh no doubt. Of course I in no way mean high end cues not being worth it in utility to mean they don’t or can’t have a superior hit and playability…..because most def do

Playability costs up to 2-3k or so…..the other tens of thousands of dollars spent is the decor to said utilitarian device.

Which kind of makes me chuckle as I’m thinking of Harvey Martin whom was famous for not embellishing his cues with inlay….his idea was it effected integrity of the build, and I can totally respect that no problem.

Yet Harvey’s most famous cue has a long tennon for the handle area that has a removable segmented ivory sleeve that becomes the grip area, I believe it came with 2 the other being Birdseye sleeve. Then the buttcap screws on to hold it all in place.

I wonder how much begging the customer had to do to get him to make something that would seem to be against his beliefs of cue construction.

Interesting
Thr Boar is the exception to the rule. Your post is correct. It’s the functionality becomes art spectrum. And as one increases the other decreases as a rule


I’ve hit balls with lots of Harvy martins and never owned one. The segmented ivory handle one (made with cue balls) was super heavy 27oz I recall. It was cool looking but not playable at all.

My very best
Fatboy 😃😃
 

Rtoron

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I had a South West once. Hit like a McDermott. I didn't see anything special about the cue. I never wanted another one.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
I had a South West once. Hit like a McDermott. I didn't see anything special about the cue. I never wanted another one.


Hit is like Hot, personal taste. Stuff I eat and say no big , would send others to emergency room with mouth to ass on fire.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hit is like Hot, personal taste. Stuff I eat and say no big , would send others to emergency room with mouth to ass on fire.
I like hot food too. It makes it exciting!

And that’s a great example. Everyone’s different and what makes a cue feel good is personal preference. And to complicate things sometimes taste changes over time.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
I like hot food too. It makes it exciting!

And that’s a great example. Everyone’s different and what makes a cue feel good is personal preference. And to complicate things sometimes taste changes over time.


Thing is people talk about “hit”,or “feel”. No way to measure, it is a personal interpretation.

Show me you hit meter,to measure hit, I am, and others would like the experience.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
That’s 1000% right.


If flipping true, and right. Everyone likes different stuff, reason Hiram Walkers Ten High is not only bourbon sold.

People drink 10 High & love, personally it is good to put in rag to start fire only.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If flipping true, and right. Everyone likes different stuff, reason Hiram Walkers Ten High is not only bourbon sold.

People drink 10 High & love, personally it is good to put in rag to start fire only.
Funny you say that. My mom and dad who were born in 27 & 23 weren’t big drinkers. But they used to always say 10 High was the worst thing ever. They would use it as a comparison in conversation. “That’s as bad as 10 High”. I haven’t heard that in years, I never tried 10 High, it must have been horrible.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
Funny you say that. My mom and dad who were born in 27 & 23 weren’t big drinkers. But they used to always say 10 High was the worst thing ever. They would use it as a comparison in conversation. “That’s as bad as 10 High”. I haven’t heard that in years, I never tried 10 High, it must have been horrible.


Ten High is liquid crap that burns like 180 alcohol on bad burn.

Old girl friend parents use to buy the 1.75 Ml bottle by case, ice, seven up, or tonic water made it drinkss as ble.

If you can not drink Bourbon straight without puking it’s not good bourbon.

Ten High is not good anything, but cheap booze for drinks.
 

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ten High is liquid crap that burns like 180 alcohol on bad burn.

Old girl friend parents use to buy the 1.75 Ml bottle by case, ice, seven up, or tonic water made it drinkss as ble.

If you can not drink Bourbon straight without puking it’s not good bourbon.

Ten High is not good anything, but cheap booze for drinks.
That exactly what my parents used to say, “cheap booze”.

I never tried it,

I rarely drink, but I like bourbon neat once or twice a year is good with me.

Fatboy <———can hold his liquor, but doesn’t like drinking
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
That exactly what my parents used to say, “cheap booze”.

I never tried it,

I rarely drink, but I like bourbon neat once or twice a year is good with me.

Fatboy <———can hold his liquor, but doesn’t like drinking


Well the Ex girls friend parentD live 10 High & Miller Light, I brought my own drinks to their home.

Let’s say I hated 10 High & miller Light, with those you either got lighter fluid, or beer that tasted watered down.
 
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