Southwest Taper?
- Thread starter Jeff
- Start date
> Hopefully someone that actually owns one can chime in here,and correct me if I'm wrong. When David Kersenbrock taught Jerry Franklin how to make cues,the butts were tapered the exact same way as David's cues were,basically the long,Coke bottle taper I mentioned in the other thread. The shafts had no straight section,instead having a taper of roughly .040 in the first 16-20 inches,or roughly .002 per inch straight back. If they've changed since then,I have no idea. I can tell you from personal experience the older ones are MUCH stiffer than anything they've made in the last 10 years,especially a pre-date Jerry or Kersenbrock. Southwest actually offers a long "pro" taper,a "stiff" taper,and one in between. Tommy D.
Tommy-D said:
I have to say, there is so little information with any basis in fact in this post, I wonder why you even bothered to write it?
> Oh really? This is exactly what I was told by a regular here,who has never given me bad info before,when I asked pretty much the same question trying to figure out why Kersenbrocks and early SW's played the way they do,and why the newer ones don't play the same. I've also had several in-depth conversations with Al Lawrence,who I'm sure you know about the same general theme. Tommy D.
Consider these FACTS for a minute.
Before Jerry ever considered making cues, Mike, his nephew, worked for Kersenbrock after school and weekends making cues. When Jerry started SW Cues, Mike came to work for him, working alongside him making cues. So Mike was making SW cues from day one--in fact, even before day one. And Mike is still making SW cues.
Laurie played an active role in the making of SW Cues from the very beginning. She purchased the woods, she stored the woods, she scheduled the woods for turnings, etc. Moreover, she knows every detail of the making of SW Cues.
Now, with this understanding of FACTS, do you honestly think, after Jerry's passing, Laurie and Mike decided--'Hey, let's quit making our cues the way we always have. Let's make them hit poorer. Let's make them less stiff. Let's use poorer woods. Let's just go ahead and rush the turnings.' And do you think Laurie suddenly forgot how to buy, sort and schedule turnings of their woods? Do you think that after 15 years of success, she and Mike suddenly decided to change all that they had learned together with Jerry and make poorer cues?
I've known Laurie for 20 years. I know nothing that would be in anyway detrimental to the crafting of their cues has changed. I know Laurie wouldn't change a thing, if for no other reason than for her love of Jerry and her respect for his legacy.
So, Tommy, get your facts straight before you go spreading unfounded, stupid rumors.
Before Jerry ever considered making cues, Mike, his nephew, worked for Kersenbrock after school and weekends making cues. When Jerry started SW Cues, Mike came to work for him, working alongside him making cues. So Mike was making SW cues from day one--in fact, even before day one. And Mike is still making SW cues.
Laurie played an active role in the making of SW Cues from the very beginning. She purchased the woods, she stored the woods, she scheduled the woods for turnings, etc. Moreover, she knows every detail of the making of SW Cues.
Now, with this understanding of FACTS, do you honestly think, after Jerry's passing, Laurie and Mike decided--'Hey, let's quit making our cues the way we always have. Let's make them hit poorer. Let's make them less stiff. Let's use poorer woods. Let's just go ahead and rush the turnings.' And do you think Laurie suddenly forgot how to buy, sort and schedule turnings of their woods? Do you think that after 15 years of success, she and Mike suddenly decided to change all that they had learned together with Jerry and make poorer cues?
I've known Laurie for 20 years. I know nothing that would be in anyway detrimental to the crafting of their cues has changed. I know Laurie wouldn't change a thing, if for no other reason than for her love of Jerry and her respect for his legacy.
So, Tommy, get your facts straight before you go spreading unfounded, stupid rumors.
tedkaufman said:
You want to debate facts with the man, and then go off on a tirade where you read things into his post that he didn't say? Wow, you either are the world's first verifiable psychic or you don't have a leg to stand on and are just pulling things out of your arse.
While I can't debate the truth or fallacy of his statements, I kept my mouth shut when I didn't know the truth of the matter. You stepped off into the sh** without your waders.
tedkaufman said:
He didn't say anything about whether they changed the cues, he even says, "If they've changed since then,I have no idea." WHAT ARE YOU READING? He did say the hit was stiffer several years ago as opposed to now, and ask ANY respectable cuemaker, or for that matter, anyone who has worked with wood for more than 10 years, and they will tell you the quality of most hardwoods has declined significantly. COULD that be the reason the hit was stiffer back then than now? I don't know, and apparently neither does Tommy. I would ask you, but you don't even know what you're reading.
If you have anything to debate what the man actually said, please enlighten us that are ignorant of the matter, I know I love the knowledge I get from this board. But don't post up a bunch of crap just to let everyone hear your head roar.
shakes said:
You make no valid point. You offer no facts. You can't seem to convey a cogent thought. So please crawl back under your rock and shut up.
tedkaufman said:
I don't know if SW has changed their Taper or not and it's apparent that you don't either. Tommy-D stated that the taper has changed over the years and now you go off and say that SW wouldn't change their taper because of tradition. Thing is, you don't know one way or the other as you have not asked Laurie but are just assuming and assumptions, my friend, are not facts.
Dick
SW has offered 3 different tapers for at least 20 years--or since I ordered my first SW. They offer them as options. They also offer things like different wood selections.
> If my info is in any way WRONG,then so be it,I stand corrected. This is a verbatim quote from a well-known collector/broker,that offered exactly what I posted when I asked him exactly WHY the older ones hit so much better,automatically assuming that yes,in fact the wood was older/denser,possibly causing a stiffer cue as an end result. To come out and accuse me of posting something just to be posting something,or trying to stir up a "rumor" that their cues are now built in an inferior manner is just absurd. Those of you that had something to offer,or politely correct me,thanks. Tommy D.
hmmmmmm
I've talked to a lot of cuemakers over the last 5-10 years and it's not really even a debatable subject that the quality of shaft wood is just not as good as it was 20 years ago on the whole. Way many more cuemakers and rock maple is a limited natural resource. Logically, if that is the case, then that may be the reason if nothing else has changed. Not suggesting that they use bad shaftwood....just perhaps not as 'select' as was once used ???
I've talked to a lot of cuemakers over the last 5-10 years and it's not really even a debatable subject that the quality of shaft wood is just not as good as it was 20 years ago on the whole. Way many more cuemakers and rock maple is a limited natural resource. Logically, if that is the case, then that may be the reason if nothing else has changed. Not suggesting that they use bad shaftwood....just perhaps not as 'select' as was once used ???
What good does the hostility do here? FWIW, South West makes 3 tapers: Standard, Standard-Pro, and Pro. I found the standard SW shaft too stiff for me to play effectively with the 2005 purpleheart SW I had. I bought a 3rd shaft and had the original shafts re-tapered by Mike at SW to "standard-pro" specs and I loved the way the cue played from then on. I no longer own that cue. My point here is that SW offers 3 shaft tapers. I cannot say how long this has been the case. I also believe their cue quality is as good as its ever been right now. I have nothing but respect for the SW people because of their dedication. I am dumbfounded that essentially 2 skilled guys and a helper and Laurie can produce upwards of 120 pointed cues a year. The waiting list must be close to 10 years now!
Martin
Martin
rhncue said:
jazznpool said:
Nice input, Martin...........Thanks for putting a light on in the dark!
cueaddicts said:
It's conceivable that shaftwood isn't as good as it was 20 yrs ago, however, SW still CAREFULLY inspects and culls incoming stock upon receipt. I wouldn't be surprised
if other cue makers didn't buy some of the "culled" inventory. Additional stock is also "culled" during the lengthy "turning" process and these may also find their way to other makers. At the end of the day SW isn't apologizing to ANYONE relative to the quality of their shafts.The reason some feel the cues of today don't hit like the early cues probably is a by product of the differant shaft tapers that are offered AND the fact that more cues , as a rule, are being delivered with smaller diameter shafts than two decades ago. Pool has become more of a finesse game as cloth has gotten faster. If you bolt a new 13 1/4 mm standard taper shaft on a SW butt it WILL hit like the cannons of yesteryear.
As always everything I say is nothing more than my humble opinion.
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It's conceivable that shaftwood isn't as good as it was 20 yrs ago, however, SW still CAREFULLY inspects and culls incoming stock upon receipt
Imo, you can cull all you want for straightness and color but the tone of the old growth shafts are/were still better/higher pitch than the young growth shafts. They would have been stiffer too.
JoeyInCali said:
Quit hogging them all!
Spread the goodness amongest us.............