Speculation Only - THE MOVE ??????????

M

MikeJanis

Banned
Go to the score card with Ralph Soquet at the top.

OK, now this is where the hustler comes out in me, PLEASE FORGIVE ME IF IT OFFENDS YOU .

At 1st glance it appears that San Souci and Mccready are out of the running. However, if Keith and George make a monetary arrangement and Keith wins 0 games George will be GUARANTEED to get in the next round.

Again it's just speculation but the scenario would go like this.

G = George
K = Keith

K to G - hey G if you give me 1/2 of the difference of the next round I'll let you slide in the back door by not winning any games. The $ difference is a total of $6800 more.

So far each player is guaranteed $6,200 but if this deal was made as in the scenario above K & G would both be guaranteed an additional $3,400 for a grand total of $9,600 each. It even gets better if K says to G - I also want 1/2 any winnings if you go any further than the next round. If G does get to the next round it's worth an additional $3,500 to each player for a total of $13,100. This agreement would go on for as far as G gets.

THATS was the MOVE in the OLD DAYS !!!!!!!


DENO, I have a question. Is there anything in place to prevent this from happening.


AGAIN, its only speculation but back in the day it would have already been a done deal.
 
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It's pretty sad. I was thinking something along the same lines. I guess that being around this game and it's upper level players for 20 plus years can tarnish the way a person looks at things. Maybe there's a way to combat this.
 
Just more speculation.

My line on Williams -v- Putnam is
Williams wins with a score of 8 - 5.

If this happens they will both be tied with 3 wins each and tied in the GLI at 6.2. Also, if Soquet beats Owen 8-0 (very unlikely) Soquet will have three wins and his GLI will be 6.2.

What is the scenario for that 3 way tie. Also, dont forget George slipped in the back door via the MOVE post and his GLI is now 5.6 and he's guaranteed to get to the next round.

What happens in the 3 way tie between Putnam, Soquet and Williams ??????

Mj
 
In fairness to the IPT, it's hard to legislate all this, but the IPT has an important weapon at its disposal --- the invitational events. I'm sure perceived improprieties could weigh against a player's chances of being invited to future IPT invitational events.

The days of show up and play are suddenly behind us. The IPT, by having some events where participation is by invitation only, will place unprecedented pressure on its members to maintain a professional demeanor and to conduct themselves with integrity. When it comes to impropriety, the IPT might well be "one strike and you're out" as far as the invitationals are concerned. If so, that will be good for our sport.
 
Check the rules

MikeJanis said:
Just more speculation.

My line on Williams -v- Putnam is
Williams wins with a score of 8 - 5.

If this happens they will both be tied with 3 wins each and tied in the GLI at 6.2. Also, if Soquet beats Owen 8-0 (very unlikely) Soquet will have three wins and his GLI will be 6.2.

What is the scenario for that 3 way tie. Also, dont forget George slipped in the back door via the MOVE post and his GLI is now 5.6 and he's guaranteed to get to the next round.

What happens in the 3 way tie between Putnam, Soquet and Williams ??????

Mj
Click to expand...

The next tiebreaker is number of break then runouts then after that number of 8 balls on break.
 
MikeJanis said:
AGAIN, its only speculation but back in the day it would have already been a done deal.
Click to expand...


Mike Janis inadvertantly hits the nail on the head! C'mon, Mike... you know better than to even ask that question. You know as well as I do what the answer is. Guaranteed money, savers, you don't really think anybody would actually do that in the IPT, do you? :D
 
Blackjack said:
Mike Janis inadvertantly hits the nail on the head! C'mon, Mike... you know better than to even ask that question. You know as well as I do what the answer is. Guaranteed money, savers, you don't really think anybody would actually do that in the IPT, do you? :D
Click to expand...


Appearantly they DIDN't or they just forgot to do the math.

What I was truly amazed about is how the GLI affected the win ties. More importantly and astonding to me is the fact that those ties basically hinged on winning 1 game of 8-ball.

This is absolutely the bestest scoring format possible. I LOVE IT !

Mj
 
Mike,

I see one huge flaw in that scenario. While I agree that most players are interested only in the 'now', keep in mind that they better be looking to the future. Namely, the fact that only the top 100 money earners keep their tour cards. No matter who gets what amount of cash in that deal, the only cash that counts is what is posted as winnings. So if G wins $20,000, even if he gives up half to K, G is going down in the books as winning $20,000, while G is listed as $6200 (or whatever the payouts will be in the next one.) I don't see anyone intentionally trying to make a deal to lose big. They would be fighting to see who would go on. Everyone is going out there to win as much money as possible to be tallied up and hopefully, make the top 100 to keep their tour cards. Especially given all the benefits of being on the tour in the next few years!!!
 
sjm said:
In fairness to the IPT, it's hard to legislate all this, but the IPT has an important weapon at its disposal --- the invitational events. I'm sure perceived improprieties could weigh against a player's chances of being invited to future IPT invitational events.

The days of show up and play are suddenly behind us. The IPT, by having some events where participation is by invitation only, will place unprecedented pressure on its members to maintain a professional demeanor and to conduct themselves with integrity. When it comes to impropriety, the IPT might well be "one strike and you're out" as far as the invitationals are concerned. If so, that will be good for our sport.
Click to expand...


This is a most EXCELLENT post. You have amazing powers of observation.

Your observations and speculations should be taken to heart by all the IPT players and IPT Directors.


For some reason this post reminds of a song......
Here's a clip "wide staring eyes and a strong urge to fly"

I'll give a Nickel to anyone that can tell me the;
Group, Singer, Song Name, Album it's on and from what year.
 
Doesn't make sense

rackmsuckr said:
Mike,

I see one huge flaw in that scenario. While I agree that most players are interested only in the 'now', keep in mind that they better be looking to the future. Namely, the fact that only the top 100 money earners keep their tour cards. No matter who gets what amount of cash in that deal, the only cash that counts is what is posted as winnings. So if G wins $20,000, even if he gives up half to K, G is going down in the books as winning $20,000, while G is listed as $6200 (or whatever the payouts will be in the next one.) I don't see anyone intentionally trying to make a deal to lose big. They would be fighting to see who would go on. Everyone is going out there to win as much money as possible to be tallied up and hopefully, make the top 100 to keep their tour cards. Especially given all the benefits of being on the tour in the next few years!!!
Click to expand...

You mean this money won goes toward the year end. Since this is an invitational I would not think that would be the case. Not very fair to everyone else. That is quite a lead all 43 will have.
 
rackmsuckr said:
Mike,

I see one huge flaw in that scenario. While I agree that most players are interested only in the 'now', keep in mind that they better be looking to the future. Namely, the fact that only the top 100 money earners keep their tour cards. No matter who gets what amount of cash in that deal, the only cash that counts is what is posted as winnings. So if G wins $20,000, even if he gives up half to K, G is going down in the books as winning $20,000, while G is listed as $6200 (or whatever the payouts will be in the next one.) I don't see anyone intentionally trying to make a deal to lose big. They would be fighting to see who would go on. Everyone is going out there to win as much money as possible to be tallied up and hopefully, make the top 100 to keep their tour cards. Especially given all the benefits of being on the tour in the next few years!!!
Click to expand...

No real flaw Linda, none at all. In fact, if your scenario is true it would be even better for K to make the offer and include a percentage of say 5-10% of G's winnings next year if the win turns out to help get G there.

Also, as it stood both players had something to gain and nothing to lose.
 
I wasn't really counting the invitational. The tour starts in January, so this one doesn't count for the total $'s.
 
Well

rackmsuckr said:
I wasn't really counting the invitational. The tour starts in January, so this one doesn't count for the total $'s.
Click to expand...

What was your point then? The invitational means nothing for the future and the top 100 as you state. So why not make the deal if they could figure it out, which I doubt.
 
My POINT is that they would be fighting to see who would get the money listed under their name. For the 100 that keep their tour cards they are guaranteed a minimum of $100,000 in 2007. And some of that will come from intangibles that would be hard to whack up (or easy to hide from said partner). See Colin's post from the meeting.

If they figure it out for this one, more power to them.
 
Please spell it out, I am old

rackmsuckr said:
My POINT is that they would be fighting to see who would get the money listed under their name. For the 100 that keep their tour cards they are guaranteed a minimum of $100,000 in 2007. And some of that will come from intangibles that would be hard to whack up (or easy to hide from said partner). See Colin's post from the meeting.

If they figure it out for this one, more power to them.
Click to expand...

Mike put out a scenario that included a deal to advance so both could make money. You state not likely because the money goes under one name and it is important for top 100. Then you say these winning do not count toward this years tour winnings. I call you on it, then you say they would fight to get money listed under their name. Who cares if this money does not count toward anything? Please clear up my confusion. Confirm again, this tournament does not go toward top 100. If not that is the point, a deal would not be out of the question then. Where did I go wrong?
 
nfty9er said:
Mike put out a scenario that included a deal to advance so both could make money. You state not likely because the money goes under one name and it is important for top 100. Then you say these winning do not count toward this years tour winnings. I call you on it, then you say they would fight to get money listed under their name. Who cares if this money does not count toward anything? Please clear up my confusion. Confirm again, this tournament does not go toward top 100. If not that is the point, a deal would not be out of the question then. Where did I go wrong?
Click to expand...


I'm thnking along the same lines. The points and money for this event really don't matter, its a gimme. The only thing I can figure from Linda's response is that this is not something she would ever do, but I know most of the guys playing in this thing, and believe me, they do it all the time. They "take care of each other" and it happens at every tournament including this one. A lot of these guys don't really care about points right now. As time goes on, points will become a factor, but I don't think it will stop this (deals,savers) from happening. They are a part of the game.
 
This ain't nothing

Blackjack said:
I'm thnking along the same lines. The points and money for this event really don't matter, its a gimme. The only thing I can figure from Linda's response is that this is not something she would ever do, but I know most of the guys playing in this thing, and believe me, they do it all the time. They "take care of each other" and it happens at every tournament including this one. A lot of these guys don't really care about points right now. As time goes on, points will become a factor, but I don't think it will stop this (deals,savers) from happening. They are a part of the game.
Click to expand...

Wait til next month when 150 are playing. WOW-Good luck keeping up. But I love it anyway
 
Too easy.

"This is a collect call from Mr. Floyd to Mrs. Floyd. Oh, he hung up!"


For some reason this post reminds of a song......
Here's a clip "wide staring eyes and a strong urge to fly"

I'll give a Nickel to anyone that can tell me the;
Group, Singer, Song Name, Album it's on and from what year.[/QUOTE]
 
MikeJanis said:
Again it's just speculation but the scenario would go like this.

G = George
K = Keith

K to G - hey G if you give me 1/2 of the difference of the next round I'll let you slide in the back door by not winning any games. The $ difference is a total of $6800 more.

So far each player is guaranteed $6,200 but if this deal was made as in the scenario above K & G would both be guaranteed an additional $3,400 for a grand total of $9,600 each. It even gets better if K says to G - I also want 1/2 any winnings if you go any further than the next round. If G does get to the next round it's worth an additional $3,500 to each player for a total of $13,100. This agreement would go on for as far as G gets.
Click to expand...

Not saying that they would think of this as they would probably be thinking of the "now", but let's say this does happen, and they agree that "K" gets half of whatever prize money after the first round the "G" makes. Against all odds, "G" makes it to the finals and loses to Sigel. He has made $100,000 for second place. Subtract the 6200 for the initial payout, and he has to split $93,800. He gives "K" $46,900. Now Mr. Trudeau hands him a W9 tax form for $100,000, and he only made $50K. Again, I know this is a far fetched scenario, but at that level anyone can have a good day and beat anyone, IMO. Does "G" or anyone else want to take that chance? I know I wouldn't.

~Shakes
 
For some reason this post reminds of a song......
Here's a clip "wide staring eyes and a strong urge to fly"

I'll give a Nickel to anyone that can tell me the;
Group, Singer, Song Name, Album it's on and from what year.
Click to expand...

Pink Floyd, Nobody Home, The Wall.... 1980 I think?

Chris
 
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