speed control . . . . . seems odd to me

[ShootingArts]

We hash out a handful of subjects over and over on here but it seems that one that is rarely mentioned is one of the most important, speed control. With speed control we can use far less extreme draw, follow, and side. When we use less of these things and rely on speed and natural angles we make far fewer "unforced" errors.

When I played very strong pool my speed control was almost unmatched. Since I came back to pool and found fast tables after a few decades away from the game my speed control has been lousy and everything else is substandard too. I can't help thinking that speed control would keep me out of most of the trouble I get myself into on a table.

Hu

 

[Saggy]

Speed Control is certainly a very difficult thing to Master, especially when you have to jump from table to table during a tournament.

 

[skor]

I can't help thinking that speed control would keep me out of most of the trouble I get myself into on a table.

Hu

true to probably all aspects of life....

 

[jason]

We hash out a handful of subjects over and over on here but it seems that one that is rarely mentioned is one of the most important, speed control. With speed control we can use far less extreme draw, follow, and side. When we use less of these things and rely on speed and natural angles we make far fewer "unforced" errors.

When I played very strong pool my speed control was almost unmatched. Since I came back to pool and found fast tables after a few decades away from the game my speed control has been lousy and everything else is substandard too. I can't help thinking that speed control would keep me out of most of the trouble I get myself into on a table.

Hu

Speed is the one variable of pool that is most difficult to control. When playing a high level, it can be the number one difference in a set. Yes, pocketing balls is extremely important, but sooner or later it will catch up with you without speed control. The more you get out of line, the difficulty of shot making increases. The more difficult the shot, the more important the speed control for the next...usually that is. That's why we try to minimize speed by playing better patterns and into the line instead of across it.

 

[thomba02]

Speed is the one variable of pool that is most difficult to control. When playing a high level, it can be the number one difference in a set. Yes, pocketing balls is extremely important, but sooner or later it will catch up with you without speed control. The more you get out of line, the difficulty of shot making increases. The more difficult the shot, the more important the speed control for the next...usually that is. That's why we try to minimize speed by playing better patterns and into the line instead of across it.

agreed.

speed control is the most difficult part of the game...tough to teach because it relies totally on your own muscle memory.

 

[SJDinPHX]

True for sure !

We hash out a handful of subjects over and over on here but it seems that one that is rarely mentioned is one of the most important, speed control. With speed control we can use far less extreme draw, follow, and side. When we use less of these things and rely on speed and natural angles we make far fewer "unforced" errors.

When I played very strong pool my speed control was almost unmatched. Since I came back to pool and found fast tables after a few decades away from the game my speed control has been lousy and everything else is substandard too. I can't help thinking that speed control would keep me out of most of the trouble I get myself into on a table.

Hu

Truer words were never spoken, Hu. You can take all the lessons, and subscribe to all the "aiming systems", but if you never develope speed control, you will never reach the top level in pool. The quicker you learn to adjust to the speed of any given table, the sooner you may overcome someone who might shoot a lot straighter (or in the case of one pocket move better) than you do. Adjusting to varying cue ball weights is also important in judging speed control.

Dick

 

[av84fun]

We hash out a handful of subjects over and over on here but it seems that one that is rarely mentioned is one of the most important, speed control. With speed control we can use far less extreme draw, follow, and side. When we use less of these things and rely on speed and natural angles we make far fewer "unforced" errors.

When I played very strong pool my speed control was almost unmatched. Since I came back to pool and found fast tables after a few decades away from the game my speed control has been lousy and everything else is substandard too. I can't help thinking that speed control would keep me out of most of the trouble I get myself into on a table.

Hu

1. Place an OB in front of the right side pocket about a thumb width off the rail (if there was a rail).

2. Place the CB 1 thumb witdh off the rail, 2 diamonds up (on the foot string).

3. Your mission is to use center ball, pocket the OB and have the CB roll up to the first diamond past the side. That is your "1 speed." As long as any part of the CB is on the line you have succeeded. Shoot several to get the feel.

4. Now set up the same shot but use a half tip of high and roll the CB 2 diamonds instead of one. That is a "2 speed. Shoot several and then alternate between 1 and 2.

5. Same thing but roll the CB to the 3rd diamond up table. That's "3 Speed."

6. Same thing but place the OB a half inch left for the 4 Speed so you don't scratch.

When you get proficient at that, move the OB out 1 ball width and you will see that your 1 speed will carry the CB 2 diamonds and 2 speed will carry it 3 etc....of course, because you are not hitting the OB full in the face.

Assuming you are proficient at using spin to be able to achieve more CB roll with less effort, you will find that your 1-4 speeds will work for a significant percentage of shots...but I practice 5 and 6 speeds too...in which you carry the CB to the end rail and back out 1 diamond for a 5 speed and 2 diamonds for a six. Give yourself 2 ball width tolerances for those shots.

I think in terms of those speeds on all forward traveling shots but remember, when you are cutting, you will most often use your 1 and 2 speeds but will get 3 and 4 CB travel assuming roughly centerball CB contact and much more CB travel if you are spinning the CB off a rail...SO...you just have to calibrate the effect of spin off a rail for yourself.

For me a 2-3 speed with a tip or so of spin gives me a full table of CB travel.

I've posted this before and got good feedback.

Regards,
Jim

 

[SJDinPHX]

1. Place an OB in front of the right side pocket about a thumb width off the rail (if there was a rail).

2. Place the CB 1 thumb witdh off the rail, 2 diamonds up (on the foot string).

3. Your mission is to use center ball, pocket the OB and have the CB roll up to the first diamond past the side. That is your "1 speed." As long as any part of the CB is on the line you have succeeded. Shoot several to get the feel.

4. Now set up the same shot but use a half tip of high and roll the CB 2 diamonds instead of one. That is a "2 speed. Shoot several and then alternate between 1 and 2.

5. Same thing but roll the CB to the 3rd diamond up table. That's "3 Speed."

6. Same thing but place the OB a half inch left for the 4 Speed so you don't scratch.

When you get proficient at that, move the OB out 1 ball width and you will see that your 1 speed will carry the CB 2 diamonds and 2 speed will carry it 3 etc....of course, because you are not hitting the OB full in the face.

Assuming you are proficient at using spin to be able to achieve more CB roll with less effort, you will find that your 1-4 speeds will work for a significant percentage of shots...but I practice 5 and 6 speeds too...in which you carry the CB to the end rail and back out 1 diamond for a 5 speed and 2 diamonds for a six. Give yourself 2 ball width tolerances for those shots.

I think in terms of those speeds on all forward traveling shots but remember, when you are cutting, you will most often use your 1 and 2 speeds but will get 3 and 4 CB travel assuming roughly centerball CB contact and much more CB travel if you are spinning the CB off a rail...SO...you just have to calibrate the effect of spin off a rail for yourself.

For me a 2-3 speed with a tip or so of spin gives me a full table of CB travel.

I've posted this before and got good feedback.

Regards,
Jim

Jim your drill makes sense to me, and I'm sure it may be helpful to an intermediate player, However, you are not given the time to experiment on a strange table in a tournament situation. I admit some people may benifit from drills and practice. ( I never practice, myself) I'm sure you're aware that a large % of aspiring pool players never really achieve true "speed control" This is not to say they shouldn't try, but I wonder, if they work on those skills on their home (or pet) table, are they being prepared for the "real world". Speed control cannot be taught. It is an inherent gift all the top players are blessed with. Thats just the way it is. IMO

Dick

Dick

 

[Scott Lee]

Actually, it's extemely easy to teach...once you've developed a dependable, repeatable stroke! :grin:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

agreed.

speed control is the most difficult part of the game...tough to teach because it relies totally on your own muscle memory.

 

[Scott Lee]

Pool lessons that don't include some method of achieving a repeatable stroke, and developing speed control, are, imo, of very limited value. I teach both of those things to every student I meet.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

You can take all the lessons, and subscribe to all the "aiming systems", but if you never develope speed control, you will never reach the top level in pool. The quicker you learn to adjust to the speed of any given table, the sooner you may overcome someone who might shoot a lot straighter (or in the case of one pocket move better) than you do. Adjusting to varying cue ball weights is also important in judging speed control.

Dick

 

[Koopa]

I see a lot of players that can make balls consistently and have a decent idea when it comes to playing shape, but have terrible speed control. Maintaining good speed and taking it from one type of table to another is tough no matter what anyone says and is something that "I" think can only be understood by playing lots and lots of pool.

 

[av84fun]

Jim your drill makes sense to me, and I'm sure it may be helpful to an intermediate player, However, you are not given the time to experiment on a strange table in a tournament situation. I admit some people may benifit from drills and practice. ( I never practice, myself) I'm sure you're aware that a large % of aspiring pool players never really achieve true "speed control" This is not to say they shouldn't try, but I wonder, if they work on those skills on their home (or pet) table, are they being prepared for the "real world". Speed control cannot be taught. It is an inherent gift all the top players are blessed with. Thats just the way it is. IMO

Dick

Dick

With respect, speed control not only can be taught but IS being taught by most top instructors by various means.

In addition, I have rarely been in or watched a tournament where the players are not given a chance to at least shoot a rack of balls before the match...if they want to and have NEVER been to a pro event where practice on the match table is disallowed.

Many players in league or weekly tournaments don't but that is their problem. I just go to the table and start shooting balls and have never been told to stop.

And IMHO, when players DO run a few balls the FIRST thing they do is check the speed.

If you have some objective standard...like mine or others that different players use, we can tell after 2 or 3 shots how that speed is vs. our "standard" and can readily adjust.

So a few shots to calibrate cloth speed and a few more to get a fix on cushion speed and you can acquire a real advantage over a player who just screws his cue together and starts trying to figure it out during the match.

Regards,
Jim

 

[av84fun]

Pool lessons that don't include some method of achieving a repeatable stroke, and developing speed control, are, imo, of very limited value. I teach both of those things to every student I meet.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Including to ME! And THANKS!!

I seem to recall showing you the speed drill I posted above and the repeating stroke you helped to teach me is, of course, the only way to make such a drill or some similar one work.

Regards,
Jim

 

[SJDinPHX]

With respect, speed control not only can be taught but IS being taught by most top instructors by various means.

In addition, I have rarely been in or watched a tournament where the players are not given a chance to at least shoot a rack of balls before the match...if they want to and have NEVER been to a pro event where practice on the match table is disallowed.

Many players in league or weekly tournaments don't but that is their problem. I just go to the table and start shooting balls and have never been told to stop.

And IMHO, when players DO run a few balls the FIRST thing they do is check the speed.

If you have some objective standard...like mine or others that different players use, we can tell after 2 or 3 shots how that speed is vs. our "standard" and can readily adjust.

So a few shots to calibrate cloth speed and a few more to get a fix on cushion speed and you can acquire a real advantage over a player who just screws his cue together and starts trying to figure it out during the match.

Regards,
Jim

Jim, You make some good points, But I will still wager that, after a good instructor teaches proper stance, bridge, repetitive stroke, etc., their level of frustration goes up when they come to speed contol. I guess I'm trying to say, it has to be the hardest thing to "teach".

Dick

PS Jim and Scott, I'm not talking about general area speed control, I'm talking about pinpoint accuracy. Teaching that is a real chore.

 

[pooltchr]

PS Jim and Scott, I'm not talking about general area speed control, I'm talking about pinpoint accuracy. Teaching that is a real chore.

Teaching speed control is easy. The hard part is just like everything else...you have to practice. The more you practice, the more accurate you become. My students rarely have pinpoint accuracy with speed control in the class...but some who I see several months later are much better. You can learn speed control in a reletively short time...getting really good at it takes a while.
Steve

 

[skor]

Teaching speed control is easy. The hard part is just like everything else...you have to practice. The more you practice, the more accurate you become. My students rarely have pinpoint accuracy with speed control in the class...but some who I see several months later are much better. You can learn speed control in a reletively short time...getting really good at it takes a while.
Steve

I think that one aspect has been neglected here and is very important. Different playing conditions and table conditions will have an effect on the table speed so even if you can pinpoint your position on your home table it'll take some getting used to when coming to a tournament or league or just a different table at the local pool room. Even the top players sometimes loose position when playing on an unknown table or when playing on the TV table that is usually faster.

It is important to practice speed control but what's more important is to take form the practice the knowledge of what's need to be done in order to control the speed of the shot rather then being able to move the CB one diamond on a specific table.

 

[ShootingArts]

thanks to all, this thread is what I hoped for

Thanks to all, this thread is what I hoped for. Hopefully more to come. I am talking about pinpoint control, not somewhere in the right neighborhood. When I gambled a lot I played the most brutal "accidental" safeties imaginable. These require better control of a cue ball than running out and even running out requires better control than I often have now.

Generally, I agree that we should approach the next shot so that the exact shape is least important but sometimes that isn't possible, usually because speed control issues put me on the wrong side of an earlier ball so my cue ball path is crossing the proper shape instead of at a much longer angle.

It is vital to get the speed of the table and cue ball down in a hurry. Jim's shots are one quick test, how about some less obvious ones? Three rails to test the banking angles gives some idea of speed and is so common that people don't think much about anyone doing it, what else doesn't draw much attention and is perhaps a better test of speed?

Any more suggested drills or practice techniques?

Hu

 

[Scott Lee]

skor...Great point! The method of learning speed control, that we teach, allows the student to QUICKLY adjust to any playing conditions...within just a few minutes, rather than having to play several games. We teach our students how to change up their swing speed, using the exact same stroke length, in very small micro-adjustments of cue velocity. That way, they can adjust to other table sizes, cloth and cushion conditions, humidity, or any other factors, quite easily.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I think that one aspect has been neglected here and is very important. Different playing conditions and table conditions will have an effect on the table speed so even if you can pinpoint your position on your home table it'll take some getting used to when coming to a tournament or league or just a different table at the local pool room. Even the top players sometimes loose position when playing on an unknown table or when playing on the TV table that is usually faster.

It is important to practice speed control but what's more important is to take form the practice the knowledge of what's need to be done in order to control the speed of the shot rather then being able to move the CB one diamond on a specific table.

 

[Jaden]

That's why it's important....

Jim your drill makes sense to me, and I'm sure it may be helpful to an intermediate player, However, you are not given the time to experiment on a strange table in a tournament situation. I admit some people may benifit from drills and practice. ( I never practice, myself) I'm sure you're aware that a large % of aspiring pool players never really achieve true "speed control" This is not to say they shouldn't try, but I wonder, if they work on those skills on their home (or pet) table, are they being prepared for the "real world". Speed control cannot be taught. It is an inherent gift all the top players are blessed with. Thats just the way it is. IMO

Dick

Dick

This is exactly why it's important to learn the differences between tables cloths etc... and practice on as many different tables as is possible. This helps you to develop a feel for the way different balls cloths humidity conditions etc. react and gives you a feel for the speed control. You have to pay attention to what you are playing on when you play. You have to be able to recognize the different conditions quickly so that you can automatically adjust.

The thing that I have found differs the most between different types of tables and cloths is how the rails react. If you can't quickly adapt to how rails react and bounce differently on different tables it makes high level play difficult.

Jaden

 

[SJDinPHX]

Very commercial !!

skor...Great point! The method of learning speed control, that we teach, allows the student to QUICKLY adjust to any playing conditions...within just a few minutes, rather than having to play several games. We teach our students how to change up their swing speed, using the exact same stroke length, in very small micro-adjustments of cue velocity. That way, they can adjust to other table sizes, cloth and cushion conditions, humidity, or any other factors, quite easily.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott, I cannot believe you listed all those things as being taught "quite easily". If you can take a novice, or even a "B" player, and teach him those attributes "easily", You must be the greatest instuctor on the planet!
You are making some pretty solid player's sound like they don't have a clue about speed control. Please give me (us) some credit. JMHO.

Dick