Sponsoring a player... That works how?????

The Renfro

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
I have this up on facebook in the "8 and Out" group but I know many of you don't do the book of faces......

OK need some input... from anyone and everyone in the industry... As some of you know I have a small company that makes tips and rack templates... We are adding cosmetic grade chalk and several other items...
I intend to start sponsoring a player and event here and there and am tryng to wrap my head around things.....

From a sponsoring players point of view I do not want to hand a player 250 tips in a bag and have them put my Patch on their shirt.. I think there should be more than that involved but I understand that makes them push my product... The issue is they show up at tournament with 2-3 other of my sponsored pros there are 750-1000 tips for sale and none of them will make much to help with their costs.... And if I have a booth you can pretty much figure it's going to be bad for all of us..... Shouldn't there be product given for on the road... and cash given for tournaments where they will be in competition with any of the other pros you sponsor??

I was given a price of $500 bucks to get my patch on a player for a single big event awhile back.. I passed at the time as we are still small but I had to wonder if that was standard for world class players in an Open event? Would a regular pro get half that? How about a guy everyone knows but everyone knows they are dead money most of the time??

I know everything is about return on investment and there likely is never going to be the right amount of return, if any, but it seems like the right thing to do at some point...

*****THURSDAY NIGHT UPDATE****
Appreciating the feedback so far from all of you... We are growing and as such it's time for us to do some things to garner notice... I will be doing as may tourneys this year as possible... I will also be doing a $100 8 and out Bonus for the Accu-Stats Make it Happen 1-Pocket event... I am considering a $100 Golden Break for the US Open.. Which will get me some time on the PPV and on the airing in Asia.. That's pretty useless for here in the states since noone will see the fottage on ESPN Star........

Have been talking to Ray Hansen​.. Need todo something there I think.. And I have been talking to Inside English and Looking into Billiards Digest....

This is all new ground and I intend to share the journey on here and elsewhere so the next schmuck knows what he is getting into.......

One thing on the agenda is getting our Accu-Racks out to promotors... If you are doing a tourney or tour we will give those to you for free... Beyond that maybe there will be some added cash in the future... Just too early to see it all when I close my eyes.....
 
$500 to wear a patch that no one watching a stream or in the audience can see.

Buy a ring side banner. If yer close to the tourney, set up your booth.

But, I can't believe that you also don't have to supply cues. Just kidding Chris.

Other than being a nice guy and wanting to help players out, there are probably many different ways of skinning a cat cheaper.

If you're just a small guy starting out, even at $500 per tourney, you've already crossed the Point of No Return on your product.

But yes, giving someone a bag of tips, having them sell them for expense money and to speak well of your product. Thats cool.

If you find a player that would rather have a Bag of Money instead, go to the next player.
 
The Renfro said:
One thing on the agenda is getting our Accu-Racks out to promotors... If you are doing a tourney or tour we will give those to you for free... Beyond that maybe there will be some added cash in the future... Just too early to see it all when I close my eyes.....
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Chris,

Your idea should spark some interesting comments. CSI currently is the prime promoter of American "pro" pool. Interestingly, they also promote the Magic Rack. Should create some "which is the better rack" questions. Perhaps a test or two by our resident "doctor of poolology" is in the future.

Lyn
 
I think it's good that a company (you) in the industry figures out ways to sponsor players. There have been threads about just letting pro pool die and concentrate on the amateurs. This is a mistake. It's a micro approach to a macro problem. The industry will benefit from a strong pro presence.

With that said, It should be a partnership between the company and sponsored player. I personally don't think it has to be a top player that you sponsor but someone you would be proud to have sponsor your product and has potential and desire to become a top player. The player should honestly like and use your tips and products. Promote your products whenever they have the chance, etc.

As far as compensation, I think that sponsoring the player for a probationary period would be beneficial for both parties. It could be a set amount say $500 and/or product sponsorship of 100 tips. The probationary period could be for a certain time frame such as 3 months or a number of regional/pro events such as 5. You get the drift. After the probationary period, both parties can look at the business relationship and ROI then decide if it should continue and change the terms if necessary.

Good luck with your endeavors.
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
$500 to wear a patch that no one watching a stream or in the audience can see.

Buy a ring side banner. If yer close to the tourney, set up your booth.

But, I can't believe that you also don't have to supply cues. Just kidding Chris.

Other than being a nice guy and wanting to help players out, there are probably many different ways of skinning a cat cheaper.

If you're just a small guy starting out, even at $500 per tourney, you've already crossed the Point of No Return on your product.

But yes, giving someone a bag of tips, having them sell them for expense money and to speak well of your product. Thats cool.

If you find a player that would rather have a Bag of Money instead, go to the next player.
Click to expand...

I agree with Blue on the patches. They really can't even be read for the most part. Ask yourself this- what patches were the top three players that you watched the most in the last tourney you watched wearing? If you can't answer that, you know now the effectiveness of the patches.

You might get more response from the league operators or league top players than from the pros that most players don't even watch. ?? Much larger audience.
 
Chris, I don't see much of a return by advertising your product through professional players. Sad statement but true imho. I don't know your numbers but I think some patience is in order. Accept some modest growth from what you do here and word of mouth. Your products are excellent, I think you may be surprised how the momentum will pick up.

As far as the tips go, put together a nice flyer and send some samples to every cue maker and cue repair shop you can find. I think your money would be spent better that way. With the rack templates, I think the key would be getting some of the large distributors such as Seyberts and ozone billiards to stock your product. Obviously, the same will be true for your chalk.

The other thing that might work is selling through some independent manufacturers reps. They usually work for straight commission.
 
let me know when you start giving out bags of five hundred tips

Let me know when you start giving out bags of five hundred tips. I'll be buying for ten cents on the dollar or less and competing with you at fifty cents on the dollar.

You want to know about sponsoring pro players? Why don't you post that question on the cue builders forums? They can tell you a lot about sponsoring players!

Terry gave you the straight skinny, have some banners printed and move them place to place. Do your golden break thing, but cap it at a maximum per event. That will get you some air time although highly debatable what that air time is worth. Maybe only golden breaks in the semi's and finals count.

Nice to give back but get some return for what you are giving. Getting a few pennies back on every dollar spent will just make you the latest in a long line of suckers.

Edit: At least shoot for getting back fifty cents for every dollar spent as a guideline.

Hu
 
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Renfro, I was offered a similar deal as your patch at 500 for a pro to advertise Wisconsin billiard supply. I think we would be better off advertising for each other. I sell cues you sell tips and chalk, let's work something out. PM me
 
Neil said:
I agree with Blue on the patches. They really can't even be read for the most part. Ask yourself this- what patches were the top three players that you watched the most in the last tourney you watched wearing? If you can't answer that, you know now the effectiveness of the patches.

You might get more response from the league operators or league top players than from the pros that most players don't even watch. ?? Much larger audience.
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Neil I definitely hear you guys on this... That's what has me having a hard time about this... I actually know the patches on most of the players but I don't know if I would have until I started thinking about sponsorship in a different way.... but the point it well taken... I am thinking maybe a shirt patch may only be a plus on Shanelle Loraine as far as how many people see it....
 
Shooter08 said:
Renfro, I was offered a similar deal as your patch at 500 for a pro to advertise Wisconsin billiard supply. I think we would be better off advertising for each other. I sell cues you sell tips and chalk, let's work something out. PM me
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Might be the way to go.. Still weighing everything and making a plan...
 
ShootingArts said:
Let me know when you start giving out bags of five hundred tips. I'll be buying for ten cents on the dollar or less and competing with you at fifty cents on the dollar.

You want to know about sponsoring pro players? Why don't you post that question on the cue builders forums? They can tell you a lot about sponsoring players!

Terry gave you the straight skinny, have some banners printed and move them place to place. Do your golden break thing, but cap it at a maximum per event. That will get you some air time although highly debatable what that air time is worth. Maybe only golden breaks in the semi's and finals count.

Nice to give back but get some return for what you are giving. Getting a few pennies back on every dollar spent will just make you the latest in a long line of suckers.

Edit: At least shoot for getting back fifty cents for every dollar spent as a guideline.

Hu
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Hu I hear you very loud and clear.... I had the kid from Finland ask me about sponsorship and he told me what he was given by one of his sponsors.... He showed up thinking he got the good end of the stick but noone wanted it because several others showed up with the same stick which would lead to the whole 10 cents on the dollar thing being a possible outcome.....

As far as being the latest in a long line of suckers.... Yeah... Thinking I am already there... Niche market... No Public outlet... and a bad image in the USA... That's the ticket for starting a company and making it LOL

The thing is I put made on the USA on my chalk... It kind of irks me that Professional pool is in the States that it is in right now in this country... I know we are small and I know it's probably a bad investment but I just can't help from wanting to do "something".... But the right something is what this is about.... the Golden Break and 8 and Out are good for us but I cannot steer that to be good for who I want.. It's going to be random.....

Keep the thoughts and ideas coming... I would like to think we aren't going anywhere for quite awhile... God Willing..

Chris
 
We sell what we play with. Magic chalk even though we are a kamui dealer. I shoot w a Runde; we sell Schon, Pechauer, Jacoby, and Viking.
 
Chris. After being on Az for a few years, I have read many instances where the Pros value themselves at a much higher level than what they are worth in todays market, or yesterdays for that matter.

I will never forget the story that Ray Poitras, of Four Bears Tourney told.

A pro wanted full sponsorship, that was accommodations, entry fee etc. Ray asked him what they would receive in return. Lessons, demonstrations? The Pro said, "NOTHING".

I thought, Really!

Ringside Banners. Might cost you a bit more, maybe not. The commentators often thank sponsors on air, several times during matches for the entire tournament. That is far more exposure than one patch for 5.

Myself, I believe that a younger go getter type player would do you more justice.

You could get them to wear a nice collared shirt, with Outsville on it.

They may be happy to flog some tips and chalk. What if you gave them enuff chalk and tips to buy them their daily nut for the length of the tourney. Plus a little more.

They could sell, one piece of chalk and one tip for a set price. Sell 5 or 6 packages, and that pays for their daily food plus a little.

Most players wouldn't switch an unknown tip out on their main player during play. They would be more inclined to try a new tip out later. Chalk, they would try that out in their next match.

Younger players would be more appreciative of your help and consider you doing them a favor. Pros see it as them doing you a favor.

How many times would you see a sponsored Pro at the TV Table. Maybe once. Unless you are at the tourney yourself, how would you even know that they were wearing your patch. You have to baby sit some of these guys.

You give a guy $500 to wear a patch. You would be better off buying $500 worth of Outsville case stickers and passing them out.

Now you would have 250 patches or more being shown where ever the cases go.

The Pros 500 dollar patch comes off after the tourney, if they even wear it at all.

You need to consider how much value and exposure you are going to get out of your advertising dollars.

BTW. When you get the Case Stickers made, I will gladly put one on for all the typing here. I have an nice AZB Case patch. I have had countless people tell me, "That is a nice case patch", and ask me what it is about. I tell em, AZ Billiards, check it out on the web.
 
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Blue Hog ridr said:
$500 to wear a patch that no one watching a stream or in the audience can see.

Buy a ring side banner. If yer close to the tourney, set up your booth.

But, I can't believe that you also don't have to supply cues. Just kidding Chris.

Other than being a nice guy and wanting to help players out, there are probably many different ways of skinning a cat cheaper.

If you're just a small guy starting out, even at $500 per tourney, you've already crossed the Point of No Return on your product.

But yes, giving someone a bag of tips, having them sell them for expense money and to speak well of your product. Thats cool.

If you find a player that would rather have a Bag of Money instead, go to the next player.
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Wise words!
 
As far as patches go follow the example of the NHRA and give product to winners that display your patch.
 
In my opinion, sponsoring pros will only get you so far in the billiards market. Fact is, the majority of players are amateurs. Most amateurs don't even know who today's pros are. Go to any amateur league function, and ask how many people know who Shane Van Boening is. You may get a handful who do. Then pick any other name from the 'Top 10' list, and see if they know the name.

The same could be said for spending advertising dollars on a live stream. How many viewers does the average stream get? 800-1200? That's not very many people. How many of those viewers do you think are regulars here? I would guess: the majority.

The true fans of billiards come to this site. You are well known here, and have a solid reputation. If you want to target this market, you could advertise more with AZ Billiards.

If you really want to grow, I would suggest advertising with some of the amateur leagues. APA, TAP, and NAPA all come to mind. I also think that you should make it a point to have a booth set up at every available trade show/expo. The Super Billiards Expo brings in thousands of pool players, all who love seeing/testing new products. Best of all, the venue also hosts a huge TAP tournament, where you can really push your product to the masses with the most appeal.

Good luck
 
Amateur leagues do have direct contact with more rank and file pool players than anything I can think of. I play both BCA and APA, both leagues I have converter 50% of the people on my teams to your tips. Some very solid players and some bangers, but other than the cue guy that has to learn to put the tips on correctly, people love them.

Somehow just getting them into the hands of people for them to try should increase sales. But how many of the "league" player even go to pro events? Here on the west coast, the Jay Swanson Memorial is this weekend. If you had some pro with a bag of tips at the Jay Swanson Memorial, how many people would even be interested? I know a few people that will be using your tips will be there, but "Joe Shmoe" or "Mr. Top Pro" using your tips will not convert many if any of the other 150 people in the event.
 
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mcsock said:
Amateur leagues do have direct contact with more rank and file pool players than anything I can think of. I play both BCA and APA, both leagues I have converter 50% of the people on my teams to your tips. Some very solid players and some bangers, but other than the cue guy that has to learn to put the tips on correctly, people love them.

Somehow just getting them into the hands of people for them to try should increase sales. But how many of the "league" player even go to pro events? Here on the west coast, the Jay Swanson Memorial is this weekend. If you had some pro with a bag of tips at the Jay Swanson Memorial, how many people would even be interested? I know a few people that will be using your tips will be there, but "Joe Shmoe" or "Mr. Top Pro" using your tips will not convert many if any of the other 150 people in the event.
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Points well taken from all of you... Am hearing League on 8 and Out as well from several industry members... Now to look at the Patch idea, Thanks Blue... and the NHRA idea...

If it worked for bracket racers around the country at the 1/4 and 1/8 mile tracks I could see it being a firm basis here... I know the program has been pretty much abandoned at this point but for years it was bread and butter for the weekend warriors.... Thanks for that reminder.... Thanks for the reminder xplor... I grew up at dragstrips and round tracks here in East Tennessee and really hadn't thought about the old product program in years...

Chris
 
Why not sponsor a team for a State Tournament. There are lots of league players that probably never heard of you. And the cost is not prohibitive.

There will be a "Magic Chalk" team this year at the IL ACS tournament in March. No patch needed, cause the back of shirt is gonna have Magic Chalk scrawled across the back in the biggest letters they make :thumbup:

Gonna try and find a "Magic Girl" to walk around and let folks try out the chalk. Already found one cue maker to sell the chalk at his booth during the 5-day tourney.
 
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