Sportsmanship poll Redone: opponent is @ to shoot wrong ball -you sayin sumthin?

Do you tell your opponent when he's shooting the wrong ball?

  • Yes, when playing for fun or cheap

    Votes: 122 79.2%
  • No, when playing for fun or cheap

    Votes: 12 7.8%
  • Yes, when playing for $$$

    Votes: 60 39.0%
  • No, when playing for $$$

    Votes: 59 38.3%
  • Yes, when playing in a tourney

    Votes: 78 50.6%
  • No, when playing in a tourney

    Votes: 54 35.1%

  • Total voters
    154
This situation occurred in a recent tournament

This exact situation occurred during a recent 8-ball tournament. My opponent shot at the 8-ball before making his last ball. I had wondered why he played shape the way he did on the prior ball. I didn't tell him he was shooting at the wrong ball and afterwards, he commented to others that my innaction was bad sportsmanship. Although I did feel bad for him, I don't regret not telling him.

There are many things I have seen my opponents do in a game that I think are a mistake, but it isn't my responsibility to correct or warn them.
 
I wouldn't feel right if I didn't say something.

Yeah, you'll say something after the fact like you did to me last week?

When I do it, I don't get mad at my opponent for not telling me. I get mad at myself for not looking at the table carefully enough.

Ultimately, you should be responsible for your own actions. Let your opponent do something stupid and he will learn from it.
 
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KoolKat9Lives,

Sorry about adding this to your poll thread... but I am curious and have a question for all those players that said YES...


If you didn't catch your opponents mistake in time... would you let them keep shooting if they made the wrong ball? or if they missed, would you still take your turn at the table without ball in hand?

If you are gracious enough to feel good about telling them before they shoot... why not be gracious enough afterwards... ????
 
KoolKat9Lives,

Sorry about adding this to your poll thread... but I am curious and have a question for all those players that said YES...


If you didn't catch your opponents mistake in time... would you let them keep shooting if they made the wrong ball? or if they missed, would you still take your turn at the table without ball in hand?

If you are gracious enough to feel good about telling them before they shoot... why not be gracious enough afterwards... ????

In almost every situation I have been in with this, the opponent always insists on me taking ball in hand. They feel like an idiot for screwing up and I feel like a jerk for not noticing them in time to stop them. About the only time my opponent ever really accepts a second chance at it is after they miscue on the break. I 99% of the time let them take another shot at it. The 1% represents either the guys who refuse & insist I break, or the asshole who has been jerking my chain the entire match trying to get an edge. And the asshole thing is pretty rare, only happened to me once. I was so pissed at the guy for his unsportsman like conduct that when he miscued on the break, I took it away from him and I broke. Otherwise, yeah, I am pretty laid back & seriously want to win only if I play well enough. Winning by technicalities never felt good to me.
 
Before you vote, ask yourself if you would want your son (or daughter) to ask you "Daddy, why didnt you tell that man he was shooting at the wrong ball."

then vote.

money/tourneys are not that important. Ask the people who have won them.
 
Yes for fun, and yes in a tournament. As for money, depends upon how much. Get over 50, and no I wouldn't. I'd fully expect him to do the same.
 
I have to say that no matter how you responded to the question, or how you may feel about this kind of thing- It is NOT really a sportsmanship issue.

You are under no obligation to tell your opponent he is about to commit a foul. You may choose to, and that would be great, but not doing so is not poor sportsmanship in my book. You are not breaking any rules, you are not being disruptive or abusive, and you are not interfering with your opponent in any way.

To everyone who feels strongly that you should tell your opponent, and not doing do is somehow dishonest, I have a question for you. Taking this exact same logic a bit further, should you ALSO inform your opponent if you see him lining up a shot that will almost surely result in a scratch? What if you see him COMPLETELY misjudge his line on a kick shot where he is hooked? You are looking at him lining up, and you are CERTAIN that he WILL NOT even come close to making his intended hit, and will foul. You have plenty of time to see this, and let him know. Do you?

Even a little bit further- You know your opponent isn't highly skilled. He gets ball in hand. He has to run the 8 and the 9. The 8 is sitting against the short rail in the middle of the rail ,and the 9 is far up table. He takes his ball in hand and places his cue ball frozen to the same rail that the 8 is sitting on. You know that this is an error, as he is practically guaranteed to not make the 8 and get shape on the 9. It would be much simpler to just give himself a slight angle on the 8 and get natural shape. This is the better option that is well within his ability to do and will give him almost a sure victory, as opposed to a certain loss. Should you also offer this advice?

Why are these situations different in terms of honesty? You are an observer, you have time to inform your opponent of a costly mistake that very well could determine the winner. You have a bit of knowledge that your opponent does not seem to have and would benefit greatly if you told them. Where do you make the distinction?

Do you feel that it is your job to inform your opponent whenever they are about to make a possible game losing error?


For the record, I HAVE told my opponent many times that he was about to shoot the wrong ball. I have informed my opponents in tournaments, money games and for fun. There have also been times when I have intentionally NOT told them so. For me, it is a case by case basis.

I do not feel it is up to me to inform my opponent. I sometimes decide to let them know anyway. It is solely at my discretion, but I NEVER would feel it is unsportsmanlike not to. I also would never be upset with any of my opponents for not informing me that I was about to shoot the wrong ball. It is the shooters responsibilty in ALL cases.

A very easy way to prove this is the fact that in ANY match that is presided over by an official ref, the ref WILL sit there and watch the player line up on the wrong ball and not say a word. The ref is the one who makes calls against unsportsmanlike conduct, and he is not saying a word. Why do you think that is? Because it is completely up to the shooter to know which ball he is shooting!
 
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There's been a few sportsmanship threads lately and I thought a poll might be timely. You can choose more than one option, please choose 3.

I'd like to preface the poll by stating the following:

assume you are playing someone that you respect, not some butthead you wouldn't give the time of day to.

You forgot the option for yes unless he's an A$$hole.
 
I have to say that no matter how you responded to the question, or how you may feel about this kind of thing- It is NOT really a sportsmanship issue.

Bad attitudes & not shaking an opponents hand after the match aren't breaking the rules. But are they what defines a guy being a bad sport, as in unsportsman like conduct? And for the other scenarios, they address a player's skill level. That's completely different. I don't think I would want to type up a big post to define the difference but I can see it & that's good enough for me.
 
I will point it out to most everyone I play against ... except for few total a**holes in League and at some of the local Tournaments.

They can all kiss my A**.
 
Bad attitudes & not shaking an opponents hand after the match aren't breaking the rules. But are they what defines a guy being a bad sport, as in unsportsman like conduct? And for the other scenarios, they address a player's skill level. That's completely different. I don't think I would want to type up a big post to define the difference but I can see it & that's good enough for me.



Ok, so then a ref is being unsportsmanlike when he does not inform a player he is lining up on the wrong ball?

And knowing what ball you are shooting at is also a skill based situation. You need to have the skill of counting, AND the skill of paying attention. The difference is that darn near everyone has the ability to count (at least to 9!) and, I would go out on a limb and say that a player who has not worked on his ability to focus during a match probably does not deserve to win any matches or events where any highly skilled players are involved! We all make mistakes, and we all pay for those mistakes! I do not expect to get rewarded or let off the hook for poor play, and poor strategy, why should I think I should get a free pass for not even knowing what my next ball is?

In all of the other examples I gave it is not necessarily a skill level situation. It is a lack of knowledge that could be corrected simply by a statement as an explanation. How many players do not have the SKILL to hit the rail at a specific point? They may lack the knowledge and experience to FIND the correct contact point, but they have the skill required to make the cue ball hit that spot. If they are lining up a shot with a center ball hit that the tangent line is going straight into the pocket, I am pretty sure that they have the skill to hit that same shot with a higher or lower hit, or to change the speed of the shot as to avoid the scratch. And in my last example I specifically stated that the player is very capable of performing the 2 ball run out with the proper placement of the cue ball to start with.

So, in every case given it is well within the skill level of the player to be successful IF THEY WERE GIVEN THE PROPER INFORMATION. So, by you wit holding that information, you are depriving them of their fair chance of winning! Well, at least by the logic offered up in here.

It is not your job to make sure that your opponent does not make a costly mistake. That is my main point. If you choose to correct him that is fine, but do not try to make it something sinister if that correction is not offered.

Again, I may not be thrilled if I shoot the wrong ball and commit a foul, but I PROMISE to NEVER put that responsibility on my opponent in any way, or even slightly imply that he "should have told me". I would be disappointed at myself for MY lack of attention. It is no different then if I miscued because I was too lazy to chalk my tip properly, or completely overshot my desired position, etc, etc.

And if it makes you feel fantastic to give your opponent an extra chance that they really do not deserve ( due to their inability to pay attention) then that is wonderful for you. All I am saying is that it is not to be expected, or considered unsportsmanlike to not do so. As I said, I have informed my opponent many times BEFORE they were about to do it. I am just arguing that it is absolutely NOT to be expected as one of my duties to do so.

Do you know how many times I have missed a ball because I took my eyes off of it for a split second on my final stroke? I took the time to make sure I am shooting the correct ball, decided what speed and spin I need to use to get shape, etc, etc. I did everything in a very focused and deliberate manner, right up to the instant before contacting the cue ball, and.... WTF? Crap, I lost my focus for barely an instant! I have to sit down and take the heat for MY lack of focus. Why should someone who can't even figure out what ball comes next get a pass?

One of the things I love most about this great game is the amount of focus and dedication it requires to play at a high level. This game will make you pay dearly for any flaw you have that you will not put in the time to correct. That is a big part of the appeal. So why should people not be penalized for not taking the time to even know what ball they are suppose to shoot? Why would you even THINK about trying to somehow have that responsibility shared by the guy sitting in the chair?
 
it's nice to know that most people are honest.....

butt if you are playing you should be "playing"
not thinking about something else.
if you are stop and leave the game before you loose everything
 
IMO yes for fun, no for tournies. I've shot the wrong ball before once or twice and never felt like it was anyone's fault but mine. Part of "skill" involves being aware of the table situation, planning for the next ball, etc. If I don't have the skill at that moment to be fully aware of the next numbered ball in a tournament, PLEASE don't tell me. I deserve the foul for that kind of rookie mistake.
 
imo yes for fun, no for tournies. I've shot the wrong ball before once or twice and never felt like it was anyone's fault but mine. Part of "skill" involves being aware of the table situation, planning for the next ball, etc. If i don't have the skill at that moment to be fully aware of the next numbered ball in a tournament, please don't tell me. I deserve the foul for that kind of rookie mistake.


exactly!!! Thank you!!
 
I answered yes to all. I don't want to or have to win that way.

I admit to not always catching the mistake in time to stop someone, then i do call it and take ball in hand. But if i see it in time, i tell them.
 
How about just a simple yes to sum up all situations. It'd have to be an awful lot of money with my kids starving in order for me to sacrifice my integrity & character. Even then it'd be hard for me to not say something. It's a pool game. I don't wanna win because my opponent accidentally shot the wrong ball. I wanna win because I performed well.

That said, i'm not a pro player depending on money from pool games. I gamble & play tournies for the enjoyment of competition and because I can afford to. If I lose money because I tell the guy he's shooting the wrong ball then so be it, he wins because he played better.

Yeah, but if he shot the wrong ball then he wasn't exactly shooting better, was he?! I'll say something in regular play but not in competition.
MULLY
 
If it's clear beyond any doubt that he is going to shoot the wrong ball and I see it, I will tell him unless there is money involved. Yeah, money rules everything. But as someone pointed out, my opponent could just be lining up the next shot. I don't know. And most of the time I don't even look or care.
What you should never do however is complain that YOUR opponent didn't tell YOU that you were going to shoot the wrong ball, because it is not his buisiness to tell you.
 
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