Sportsmanship poll Redone: opponent is @ to shoot wrong ball -you sayin sumthin?

[qbilder]

Ok, so then a ref is being unsportsmanlike when he does not inform a player he is lining up on the wrong ball?

And knowing what ball you are shooting at is also a skill based situation. You need to have the skill of counting, AND the skill of paying attention. The difference is that darn near everyone has the ability to count (at least to 9!) and, I would go out on a limb and say that a player who has not worked on his ability to focus during a match probably does not deserve to win any matches or events where any highly skilled players are involved! We all make mistakes, and we all pay for those mistakes! I do not expect to get rewarded or let off the hook for poor play, and poor strategy, why should I think I should get a free pass for not even knowing what my next ball is?

In all of the other examples I gave it is not necessarily a skill level situation. It is a lack of knowledge that could be corrected simply by a statement as an explanation. How many players do not have the SKILL to hit the rail at a specific point? They may lack the knowledge and experience to FIND the correct contact point, but they have the skill required to make the cue ball hit that spot. If they are lining up a shot with a center ball hit that the tangent line is going straight into the pocket, I am pretty sure that they have the skill to hit that same shot with a higher or lower hit, or to change the speed of the shot as to avoid the scratch. And in my last example I specifically stated that the player is very capable of performing the 2 ball run out with the proper placement of the cue ball to start with.

So, in every case given it is well within the skill level of the player to be successful IF THEY WERE GIVEN THE PROPER INFORMATION. So, by you wit holding that information, you are depriving them of their fair chance of winning! Well, at least by the logic offered up in here.

It is not your job to make sure that your opponent does not make a costly mistake. That is my main point. If you choose to correct him that is fine, but do not try to make it something sinister if that correction is not offered.

Again, I may not be thrilled if I shoot the wrong ball and commit a foul, but I PROMISE to NEVER put that responsibility on my opponent in any way, or even slightly imply that he "should have told me". I would be disappointed at myself for MY lack of attention. It is no different then if I miscued because I was too lazy to chalk my tip properly, or completely overshot my desired position, etc, etc.

And if it makes you feel fantastic to give your opponent an extra chance that they really do not deserve ( due to their inability to pay attention) then that is wonderful for you. All I am saying is that it is not to be expected, or considered unsportsmanlike to not do so. As I said, I have informed my opponent many times BEFORE they were about to do it. I am just arguing that it is absolutely NOT to be expected as one of my duties to do so.

Do you know how many times I have missed a ball because I took my eyes off of it for a split second on my final stroke? I took the time to make sure I am shooting the correct ball, decided what speed and spin I need to use to get shape, etc, etc. I did everything in a very focused and deliberate manner, right up to the instant before contacting the cue ball, and.... WTF? Crap, I lost my focus for barely an instant! I have to sit down and take the heat for MY lack of focus. Why should someone who can't even figure out what ball comes next get a pass?

One of the things I love most about this great game is the amount of focus and dedication it requires to play at a high level. This game will make you pay dearly for any flaw you have that you will not put in the time to correct. That is a big part of the appeal. So why should people not be penalized for not taking the time to even know what ball they are suppose to shoot? Why would you even THINK about trying to somehow have that responsibility shared by the guy sitting in the chair?

Taking BIH & running out because my opponent shot the wrong ball never felt like a win to me. Watching a guy line up wrong on shot, however, is absolutely a skill issue, and i'm not there to give lessons. I'm competing to test my skill against his. As for the ref, they are not allowed to say anything. They are a third party & only there to call foul or no foul. If I concede my obvious BIH if he hits the wrong ball by telling him not to, then it's my choice. The ref can't make that choice for me. It's nothing to debate. It can be twisted & turned sideways to appear as a double standard all day long but in the end it's inarguable. I do it because I feel it's the right thing for ME to do. I never said everybody or anybody should or shouldn't do it. There's really not much to say about it.

 

[qbilder]

Yeah, but if he shot the wrong ball then he wasn't exactly shooting better, was he?! I'll say something in regular play but not in competition.
MULLY

Not really. I make those kind of mistakes only in two situations. First is when my mind is off in space & i'm playing bad, like you say. The other is when i'm stroking & getting out, totally blank just running balls. I then sometimes overlook a ball, but can be shooting my very best.

 

[peteypooldude]

I will tell them . This came up Friday night and though I rarely do this , My dumba$$ shot the wrong ball . My opponent was waiting for me to pull the trigger . The instant I shot , they jumped up smiling and calling foul . They
got ball in hand . They also lost 7-1

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

If you hook up a lab rat's testicles to a shocking device and apply electricity each time it does something bad that you are trying to correct, it's called behavior modification.

What was the original question? :grin-square:

Best,
Brian kc

 

[Tom In Cincy]

I sure hope I get to play all of those "YES" voters some day.. it is nice to know that a lot of players are gracious.

 

[jcrack_corn]

you guys ***** and moan about how pool doesnt get enough exposure..

look at the most universally boring game to watch in the world, GOLF...people watch because the stories are good, the character of the players (in general, with obvious exceptions, Tiger) is good.

in golf you would NEVER see a player let an opponent strike the wrong ball (even though it benefits you to let them do so as the offender would get a penalty stroke AND you get to replace your ball).

Winning is not always winning. Money and tourney wins only get you so far.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

you guys ***** and moan about how pool doesnt get enough exposure..

look at the most universally boring game to watch in the world, GOLF...people watch because the stories are good, the character of the players (in general, with obvious exceptions, Tiger) is good.

in golf you would NEVER see a player let an opponent strike the wrong ball (even though it benefits you to let them do so as the offender would get a penalty stroke AND you get to replace your ball).

Winning is not always winning. Money and tourney wins only get you so far.

I don't know if comparing hitting the wrong golf balls with pool balls can be a good analogy. In golf, generally speaking, and certainly at the pro level, everyone playing knows which ball is theirs. The pro's usually either have their name or some other very distinguishable marking on theirs. And even the duffers know which titlist or nike is theirs, also by some distinguishable marks.

For the record, I wouldn't knowingly let an opponent hit the wrong ball in a friendly game as this is just practice. But in tourneys and money games I won't say a word.

Knowing which ball you're on is part of the game. I actually think you're doing your opponent a favor to say nothing as they might (should) learn from it and be more careful from then on.

To take this a little further, I was in a local 8-ball tourney last night and I won the winners side bracket. The last guy I beat on the winner's side was sitting with me watching the last four guys in the loser's bracket play to see who would meet him, then that winner ultimately plays me.

As we watched one of those last matches, a player had a very low percentage shot on his last object ball before the 8 but he had an easy safety he could play. I whispered "I'd put him in jail" and he responded "no way, I wouldn't play safeties in a small money tournament; gotta play offense all the way"; the inference being that safeties in this setting would be unsportsmanlike. I told him I disagreed in a big way and that safety play is an integral part of the game, meant to be used whenever needed, even in practice games.

So, where do you draw the line? Somewhere between telling a friend in a friendly game and otherwise letting the shock treatments do their job, I suppose.

Best,
Brian kc

 

[jcrack_corn]

Lol...i think you made my argument.

Any amature or pro pool player knows which ball is THEIRS (or Next in rotation)....

people hit the wrong ball in both sports occasionally and it is wrong in all cases to knowingly let someone do it.

period.

no debate.

Only on a pool forum is there a debate, pool regular people and they would be like WTF...of course you say something.

I don't know if comparing hitting the wrong golf balls with pool balls can be a good analogy. In golf, generally speaking, and certainly at the pro level, everyone playing knows which ball is theirs. The pro's usually either have their name or some other very distinguishable marking on theirs. And even the duffers know which titlist or nike is theirs, also by some distinguishable marks.

For the record, I wouldn't knowingly let an opponent hit the wrong ball in a friendly game as this is just practice. But in tourneys and money games I won't say a word.

Knowing which ball you're on is part of the game. I actually think you're doing your opponent a favor to say nothing as they might (should) learn from it and be more careful from then on.

To take this a little further, I was in a local 8-ball tourney last night and I won the winners side bracket. The last guy I beat on the winner's side was sitting with me watching the last four guys in the loser's bracket play to see who would meet him, then that winner ultimately plays me.

As we watched one of those last matches, a player had a very low percentage shot on his last object ball before the 8 but he had an easy safety he could play. I whispered "I'd put him in jail" and he responded "no way, I wouldn't play safeties in a small money tournament; gotta play offense all the way"; the inference being that safeties in this setting would be unsportsmanlike. I told him I disagreed in a big way and that safety play is an integral part of the game, meant to be used whenever needed, even in practice games.

So, where do you draw the line? Somewhere between telling a friend in a friendly game and otherwise letting the shock treatments do their job, I suppose.

Best,
Brian kc

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Lol...i think you made my argument.

Any amature or pro pool player knows which ball is THEIRS (or Next in rotation)....

people hit the wrong ball in both sports occasionally and it is wrong in all cases to knowingly let someone do it.

period.

no debate.

Only on a pool forum is there a debate, pool regular people and they would be like WTF...of course you say something.

Yeah, and the guy who is running the wrong way for a touchdown should be stopped and turned around by the opposing team's players, right? Anything less is unsportsmanlike. :wink:

Call me madcap, I don't think this debate has reached its conclusion. :grin:

Best,
Brian kc

 

[book collector]

If the opponent is someone who has been a gentleman while playing me I would tell him for fun, cash or tournament , if I foul and no one sees it but me I would call it on myself for fun cash or tournament, if the opponent doesn't know what is going on at the table and he was talking to someone while I was shooting or was running around doing something that probably had a chance to distract me, no, in that case I am not a babysitter for fun, cash or in a tournament.

 

[Neil]

..............

 

[3RAILKICK]

If the opponent is someone who has been a gentleman while playing me I would tell him for fun, cash or tournament , if I foul and no one sees it but me I would call it on myself for fun cash or tournament, if the opponent doesn't know what is going on at the table and he was talking to someone while I was shooting or was running around doing something that probably had a chance to distract me, no, in that case I am not a babysitter for fun, cash or in a tournament.

I like that-situational ethics. Works for me.

(IMHO)Whether we admit it or not, most of us modify/apply rules and ethics sometimes depending on our evaluation of the character of the other party involved.

Ever play golf on the snooker table? Bad hits (wrong ball) cost $5-50 (price of the game) whether hit accidently(kicking into traffic) or by shooting directly at wrong ball (brain freeze). Costs the same. Nobody stops you.

Keep shooting at the same hole?(that's already marked on the board) that you made 10 minutes ago until you make it again-only to get a hicky for making the wrong hole. Nobody stops you.

Maybe 'golf' is a little bit different since often there are 3-6 players. "Danger" warnings are affecting the group-not just one opponent.

Makes you pay attention, and very responsible for your own errors and lapses in concentration.

Heads up-9ball, 8ball-I generally will say something-unless the A/whole situational ethics rule overrules. It gets complicated.

Ethical absolutes are rare. And costly-by any measure.

The games are hard enough-everybody honor the game by paying attention, please.

My initial introduction to the game included-'if you're going to play-you gotta pay'.(includes attention)

Take responsibility for your own screw ups-you may find they happen less often. OR- like me-it's just a bad case of stupid. It just makes the game harder and costlier.

Take care

 

[9bizzle]

I don't think it is even an honesty or integrity issue. Know the rules...know what ball you're on. What's next?......Do I have to remind my opponent to chalk before he shoots? And trying to say that this makes pool look bad??? All sports are dog-eat-dog and no one is looking out for the other guy. This is why there are officials. Pool, by nature, rarely has officials outside of final matches in bigger tourneys, so we are left to police ourselves. A ref is not going to say anything to someone about to hit the wrong ball, and neither am I.