spot shot question.

jay helfert said:
It IS difficult to do! As to how important it is, that I would question. I don't think you need this shot in your repertoire to be a good player. Work on other things! Don't waste too much time on this shot.
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.....unless you play rotation.:)

Medium speed slip stroke shot to get the cue ball spin throw the OB. Aim for the thick side of the target pocket thus having a fuller CB/OB contact with the outside english. This of course is assuming that you have a "0" squirt cue, if your cue squirts a lot, aim thinner. Emphasis is more on the outside english thus the degree of draw controls direction towards the intended position. 1 tip below center can kill the CB next to where it hits the long side rail. Max draw with max outside english can bring the CB to come in contact with the rail closer to the side pocket and spin back towards you.

Opposite to this is when the next OB is close to the top rail and you'll need to kill the CB. Same slip stroke but emphasis on the draw and strength of shot than the inside engish. Just depends where on the top rail you want to park the CB the inside english is more for fine tuning the rebound direction of the CB off the side rail. Draw determines at what point you'll hit the side rail and the strength of the shot for the travel distance of the CB from the rebounded side rail.

Hope this helps and enjoy practicing this.
 
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bandido said:
.....unless you play rotation.:)

Medium speed slip stroke shot to get the cue ball spin throw the OB. Aim for the thick side of the target pocket thus having a fuller CB/OB contact with the outside english. This of course is assuming that you have a "0" squirt cue, if your cue squirts a lot, aim thinner. Emphasis is more on the outside english thus the degree of draw controls direction towards the intended position. 1 tip below center can kill the CB next to where it hits the long side rail. Max draw with max outside english can bring the CB to come in contact with the rail closer to the side pocket and spin back towards you.

Opposite to this is when the next OB is close to the top rail and you'll need to kill the CB. Same slip stroke but emphasis on the draw and strength of shot than the inside engish. Just depends where on the top rail you want to park the CB the inside english is more for fine tuning the rebound direction of the CB off the side rail. Draw determines at what point you'll hit the side rail and the strength of the shot for the travel distance of the CB from the rebounded side rail.

Hope this helps and enjoy practicing this.
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You play too good! :D
I think you were stalling when we played last time. :)
 
jay helfert said:
You play too good! :D
I think you were stalling when we played last time. :)
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No stalling Jay, I just wasn't wearing my humongous lens shooting glasses then you probably won't need to go as easy on me....... maybe :)
 
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I can make a spot shot without the cb hitting any rail--is that what you're talking about?
 
fan-tum said:
I can make a spot shot without the cb hitting any rail--is that what you're talking about?
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They are talking about with the CB starting behind the line.

I could probably make it without hitting any rails too.

If you give me 200 tries. :D

Russ
 
Jay makes a good point here...

We use to play ring games where if the 9-ball went in before its turn, it was an "extra" and everyone paid the player who made it...it was then respotted at the middle diamond on the bottom rail...a routine shot was a spot shot on the 8 or 7-ball from the kitcken...to draw the ball to the side rail and easy position for the 9-ball...

Mike
 
vLude99 said:
found a youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JtYk-IoCCE
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The problem with slow rolling is that it's too equipment dependent or positional window made available is too small. But yes I do agree that that answers the OPs question.

What I explained in my post is for actual game usage and mostly comes up in rotation. We hardly slow roll to position because it is too equipment dependent (remember that tables here in the Philippines are far from pristine). Our definition of pocket speed is "A shot that's strong enough that table roll won't affect but soft enough that the pocket jaws won't spit out". Thus the above system as explained in my earlier post. Not a trick shot or for horsing around with friends but for actual money/tournament match usage.
 
Russ Chewning said:
I used to practice drawing the CB and touching only the side rail on a spot shot, with the CB starting at the corner of the break box. You don't NEED this shot to be a good player, but it does open up a whole range of position shots, of cutting a ball in from long distance and drawing back up table.

If you stroke the shot right, it looks easy, which greatly intimidates a lot of players, and automatically puts them in "dog mode". :D

Russ
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Bar box or 9 ft.? I was almost gonna shoot off my mouth and say that it won't go on a 9 ft....where just about any low is a dead scratch from the corner of the break box.

But fortunately, I went to try it before posting. Sure enough, I scratched the first two attempts...then caught my stroke and made it 3 in a row.

I wouldn't call it "easy" on a 9 ft. Maybe for you but I don't think it's more than a 50/50 shot for me.

Regards,
Jim
 
av84fun said:
Bar box or 9 ft.? I was almost gonna shoot off my mouth and say that it won't go on a 9 ft....where just about any low is a dead scratch from the corner of the break box.

But fortunately, I went to try it before posting. Sure enough, I scratched the first two attempts...then caught my stroke and made it 3 in a row.

I wouldn't call it "easy" on a 9 ft. Maybe for you but I don't think it's more than a 50/50 shot for me.

Regards,
Jim
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A 9 footer, of course.. Wellllll, let's just say my status as a "C player" has been greatly exaggerated... *wink*

I was just getting started a little when I quit playing to raise a family. Just this year I got my first home table, and I'll actually be able to play on it when I get back from Iraq.

What I like about this particular shot, is that when you practice it enough to where it is 75%+ for you....There really aren't many other stroke shots that are going to intimidate you. The more you practice this shot, the further you can draw back across the table. The better you hit this shot, the more confidence you have in your stroke in ANY situation.

This shot keeps you from both rushing your stroke, and laying off your stroke. Plus, when you practice it enough to where it looks like you can do it in your sleep, like I said, lesser players start dogging it against you. At least that's the way it was with me.

Russ
 
av84fun,

I forgot to mention.. I played a little with Samuel Clemanns in Europe right after he did well in an international event, and he could stroke this shot MUCH better than I could. I believe that from the box, he one time drew the ball one rail past the opposite side!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Russ
 
the first time I noticed this shot was purely accidental. but I do agree to some of the observations of other posters here. the CB is hit below center with a bit of outside english, thus make the CB slide and creates some draw to the side rail at moderate speed will make the cue go to the side rail. it would either hit the side rail and rebound a bit or stop before hitting the side.

but since dmg mentioned the short rail, thus maybe refering to the bottom rail. then it is a matter of slow rolling the CB. just enough speed for the OB to drop and the CB to stop before hitting the bottom rail or stop a few cms after a rebound. it would require a bit of sliding the CB as well without english. however, as mentioned by Bandido, this is reliant on the equiptment used, like the table conditions and the cue used.

as to making the CB somehow stop upon hitting the spotted OB within the area where the contact occured, this would require some maximum angle of elevation that would make the CB stop. this however, is not a practical shot in a spot situation.
 
tpdtom said:
We all wish we had Massey's stroke. I've never worked on that shot, but I have tried it and couldn't do it either. Oh well. IMHO I'm much more concerned with having a straight, level, and fluid stroke that I finish in the down position every time. That's what I'm working on, and that's what I'm going back to Stan Shuffett to have evaluated again next week. I wouldn't obsess over that shot if I were you. Good luck. I wish that I could play some 14.1 with you at the Illinois Billiard Club...Tom
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Tom: It was just the next shot in the book that I was trying to do and I was curious as to how it could be made because the others were nowhere near as difficult. I guess it takes a really good draw stroke. I made three times now out of about 40 tries. I'll play with it a little but not much.

If you ever get to Chicago we could play that 14.1 game. Later.
 
bandido said:
.....unless you play rotation.:)

Medium speed slip stroke shot to get the cue ball spin throw the OB. Aim for the thick side of the target pocket thus having a fuller CB/OB contact with the outside english. This of course is assuming that you have a "0" squirt cue, if your cue squirts a lot, aim thinner. Emphasis is more on the outside english thus the degree of draw controls direction towards the intended position. 1 tip below center can kill the CB next to where it hits the long side rail. Max draw with max outside english can bring the CB to come in contact with the rail closer to the side pocket and spin back towards you.

Opposite to this is when the next OB is close to the top rail and you'll need to kill the CB. Same slip stroke but emphasis on the draw and strength of shot than the inside engish. Just depends where on the top rail you want to park the CB the inside english is more for fine tuning the rebound direction of the CB off the side rail. Draw determines at what point you'll hit the side rail and the strength of the shot for the travel distance of the CB from the rebounded side rail.

Hope this helps and enjoy practicing this.
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This sounds like the shot. The best I have done so far is draw over to the long rail and rebound at an angle towards the bottom rail, but soft enough that it stopped before it got there. I have been unable so far to get the cue ball to end up level with the object ball by drawing it back and forth on the side rails. I will play with it some more.
 
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dmgwalsh said:
This sounds like the shot. The best I have done so far is draw over to the long rail and rebound at an angle towards the bottom rail, but soft enough that it stopped before it got there. I have been unable so far to get the cue ball to end up level with the object ball by drawing it back and forth on the side rails. I will play with it some more.
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It would be nice to see a short youtube video of somebody who can do this well. Any volunteers?
 
video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-u3k9g0A2c

here's mine. tried it yesterday on the table i usually play and practice, and have only managed to pull it into the side pocket once, with lots of misses and weak attempts inbetween.

this morning, i stopped by another pool room for a cup of coffee, grabbed a house cue, and whacked it in three times in a row, before i took out my camphone. it only took one try with the camera rolling.

..guess i should trade my cue for a nice one piece dufferin :D
 
I have a tough time with this shot. If I hit it hard and low enough to get the draw I don't make the shot very often. If I take something off to make the shot I don't get the draw. I often just practice making the shot.
 
mikepage said:
It would be nice to see a short youtube video of somebody who can do this well. Any volunteers?
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Here's one with low extreme left english. http://video.yahoo.com/watch/2663819/7803471

One with low right http://video.yahoo.com/watch/2664127/7804540

Here's one with just draw and speed control and no side english. http://video.yahoo.com/watch/2664174/7804667

Hardly any slow rolling as there are a lot of traffic to avoid and really don't want the shot to be dependent on the table condition when playing rotation.

Enjoy!

psst>>all done on first try. Will try to do "X out of 10 tries" one of these nights. Of course, these were all shot by Roberto Gomez!
 
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kaznj said:
I have a tough time with this shot. If I hit it hard and low enough to get the draw I don't make the shot very often. If I take something off to make the shot I don't get the draw. I often just practice making the shot.
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What works for me is to practice stroking at all different speeds. I used a liquor bottle, and started out stroking very slowly into the neck, and tapping the center of the back of the bottle.

Slowly increase your speed in small increments, until your are comfortable with this very long strong at a wide range of speeds.

Then, go back and practice this shot using a slower speed than you are used to. Remember to adjust your aim for the deflection of you cue. This shot plays best for me with a very long stroke, hit at a medium to medium-soft speed.

Hitting this stroke hard, you have no hope of getting the action you need. The CB will stay on the tangent line too far before drawing back to the side rail.

Russ
 
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