I just added the aluminum pin on there, since Uni-Loc makes the Radial pin in Aluminium
I`m still interested in your splice hypothesis
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SS joint vs ?
- Thread starter sonny_burnett
- Start date
I just added the aluminum pin on there, since Uni-Loc makes the Radial pin in Aluminium
I`m still interested in your splice hypothesis
The link was provided in post #4.
I'd be more interested in ONE butt with 4 different sleeves and one shaft. The only thing that changes is the joint sleeve. I don't think 4 is enough, though. Might as well throw in phenolic, Juma, etc. & make it thorough.
The problem I see more than any other is that folks notice a difference in one cue and another, then fill in the blanks with their own suspicions of why. They make up their mind that one joint type is this and another joint type is that, when they don't really know. Hey, I was already an accomplished maker when I played with John's cue. It turned my world upside down. I knew for certain that big pin into wood cues had a more natural feel and steel jointed cues had that metallic clanky thing going on. I knew it.....until I hit with John's cue. I realized then that I couldn't make such strong opinions about things I didn't really know enough about. It's one of those times I realized I knew a fraction of what I thought I knew, and it forced me to learn.
My cue had a big pin into wood, wrapless handle, bocote into ebony 8-pointer, canvas phenolic collars, 13mm melamine ferrule with hard tip. John's cue was traditional 4-point veneer rosewood into maple, stainless joint with 5/16-14 thread, linen wrap, 12.?mm ivory ferrule with med/soft tip. The cues hit virtually identical. I built the dang thing & if not for his having a wrap, I wouldn't have known the difference in a blind test. The only conclusion I could come to is that a cue is the sum of its parts, and every part factors equally. That's where I decided was a good starting point, and I would adjust my feelings as I experienced/learned differently. It's been several years & I'm still at that conclusion. Everybody has their own experiences. That one is mine. Until I concretely learn otherwise, it's where I'll remain.
Like I said, I don't have a solid opinion one way or the other because frankly I don't know. My feeling is that a cue joint does matter, but it does so within the confines of the individual cue it's on. Just because it performs one way on one cue doesn't mean it'll be the same on another. I think one butt with 4 interchanging collars will show only a slight difference (if any) from one to the next, but 4 butts with different collars will show a much more drastic difference, likely with one standing clearly above the others. I don't know that's what would happen, but given my experiences & a process of deduction, that's how I'd predict the outcome.
Bingo..........
I like joints that last a really long time, have very few if any problems over time and are not going to feel tighter or loser depending on the humidity outside, or in anyway get lose over time.
For this and some other worry free ownership requirements I like it more when a cue has stainless steel.
A Balabushka goes together as easily today as it did on day one after production, same with any of the old R. Black cues I have, Tascarella, Binder, Szamboti......etc.
If I'm shopping for one of those super expensive cues and it has a stainless steel joint, I become more interested and less worried.
If not then several other conditions have to be met that you simpy don't have to worry about with the ss joints.
For this and some other worry free ownership requirements I like it more when a cue has stainless steel.
A Balabushka goes together as easily today as it did on day one after production, same with any of the old R. Black cues I have, Tascarella, Binder, Szamboti......etc.
If I'm shopping for one of those super expensive cues and it has a stainless steel joint, I become more interested and less worried.
If not then several other conditions have to be met that you simpy don't have to worry about with the ss joints.
For what it's worth....
For various reasons I sold my Judd cue that I loved. The one condition was that I could keep the one shaft that is/was my favorite so we made the deal. I had a few 3/8-10 pin cues that I tried to "marry" the butt and my Judd shaft but never really found the same feel or hit that I had w/my old Judd. So after a few years, I bought no less than 12 different cues w/3/8-10 pin so I can find the one that played and felt similar to my old Judd.
So I was using the same shaft, ferrule and tip on each cue on all of the different butts (some w/collars, some w/o and all different woods) and most did not "feel" right. Some performed close but without the "feel". I finally found the one that provided the "feel" and performance I had w/my Judd: A true sneaky pete made from a red leaf Dufferin. No collar, wrap or buttcap, just wood. The diameter of the collar of the butt is a little larger than the shaft, but that's ok.
Conclusion: The butt matters. Whether it's the joint, wood used, wrap, etc I do not know (I'll leave that to the experts), but the butt does matter even when using the same shaft.
By the way, I found the same to be true w/a Runde Schon shaft I have from the mid 80's. I tried many butts to get the same feel and even othe Schon butts felt differently. I found a Jacoby (one of the few piloted stailess joints that would fit a Schon shaft) that "felt" good and settled on that. But by the time I found it I was happy w/my Judd shaft find described above. But I will say that the piloted shaft and joint added a bit of weight to the middle of the cue.
Sorry for the interuption, I hope it was at least a little on point.
Dave
For various reasons I sold my Judd cue that I loved. The one condition was that I could keep the one shaft that is/was my favorite so we made the deal. I had a few 3/8-10 pin cues that I tried to "marry" the butt and my Judd shaft but never really found the same feel or hit that I had w/my old Judd. So after a few years, I bought no less than 12 different cues w/3/8-10 pin so I can find the one that played and felt similar to my old Judd.
So I was using the same shaft, ferrule and tip on each cue on all of the different butts (some w/collars, some w/o and all different woods) and most did not "feel" right. Some performed close but without the "feel". I finally found the one that provided the "feel" and performance I had w/my Judd: A true sneaky pete made from a red leaf Dufferin. No collar, wrap or buttcap, just wood. The diameter of the collar of the butt is a little larger than the shaft, but that's ok.
Conclusion: The butt matters. Whether it's the joint, wood used, wrap, etc I do not know (I'll leave that to the experts), but the butt does matter even when using the same shaft.
By the way, I found the same to be true w/a Runde Schon shaft I have from the mid 80's. I tried many butts to get the same feel and even othe Schon butts felt differently. I found a Jacoby (one of the few piloted stailess joints that would fit a Schon shaft) that "felt" good and settled on that. But by the time I found it I was happy w/my Judd shaft find described above. But I will say that the piloted shaft and joint added a bit of weight to the middle of the cue.
Sorry for the interuption, I hope it was at least a little on point.
Dave
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The Cue joint matters a lot. With that being said. Cue butts have 3 points or weight, all contributing to the overall balance. So why would you not alter the -A- joint according to what the front of the butts joint is. Not 10 cues but that 1 single cues construction. Then when placed with the other cues. It's balance and performance is somewhat similar but not the same no matter how you look at it.
For those who only offer 1 type of joint screw that's fine. But I've done and do, uni loc, radial, 5/16 full stainless and 3/8x10. Sometimes the big pins have phenolic joints and sometimes they have stainless added, full and thin walled. It all matters and it all effects playability and balance.
For those who only offer 1 type of joint screw that's fine. But I've done and do, uni loc, radial, 5/16 full stainless and 3/8x10. Sometimes the big pins have phenolic joints and sometimes they have stainless added, full and thin walled. It all matters and it all effects playability and balance.
I had one of your cues where you sleeved stainless over ivory. Yes, for those who are reading this, steel sleeve OVER ivory. Made for an interesting hit...
Hi Shawn
I don't use ivory anymore but if I did. The new design would have been phenolic, stainless, phenolic then ivory. Edit. Guess I can post pictures.
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any azbilliards member can go to their profile,
create an album
and upload photos to that album, the code you take and paste in a comment will be a very appropriate sized image for the forum, not mega huge, not tiny
.not from a cell phone and I have no desire to go up in my computer room. Got more important things to do.
i can from my phone
I don’t have the cue anymore. It was a 3/8-10 pin. The joint had a black phenolic sleeve around the joint pin. Then, ivory. And then the thick stainless sleeve. Was probably a hair thinner than a 1/8” wall.
That's nice. It's good to be you.
really guy? i was simply trying to pass on some helpful imformation
Mmm. Not really. You said how to do it. He said he didn’t want to. You said “why not?”. He’s allowed at that point to say something. It’s like the hot girl at the bar. You can ask her if you can buy her a drink. She says no thanks. If you then ask “why not”, she’s allowed to make fun of you.
Sorry your insulted. If I could I would. This is all conversation here. Usually fun. Sometimes funny and with no disrespect intended. I answer based on my own R&D work and experiences. I use my own name and hold myself accountable to what I post. Out of respect for myself and respect to this Forum. I'm not trying to blow smoke or sell anything. People can believe what ever and who ever they wish. People need to acknowledge that, that blind test showed similarities but the fact is. It only showed similarities because the cues involved were constructed differently which made the balance of each similar.
This...and why we have Milky Way, Snickers, and 3 Musketeers! It's personal choice. I personally, like Matt, love the look and "feel" of an ivory joint & ferrules. I've owned several cues with ivory joints (both solid and sleeved) and never had a joint crack on me. I know that's not the case for others who have had ivory joints.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Ball pin hammer vs wooden mallet. Lol