Statement from The Legends of Pocket Billiards

[kanzzo]

So, if I was invited to run balls on a table that was eligible for a world record, and I thought I had a chance of doing it, one of my first questions would be, “Before I spend the next x number of days/weeks bent over this table, can you guarantee me that this table meets the standards the BCA uses when they verify the run?”

I don’t know Jayson. Am I wrong to assume he would make similar enquiries?

EDIT: Because pretty much all the people accusing Legends of shenanigans have at some point qualified their statements with something like, “It’s not Jayson’s fault. He deserves better.”

It seems to me that Jayson knows those pockets just about better than anyone. It also seems to me that he’s pretty happy to claim the new word record.

In my "feeling" or understanding of justice Jayson should be the world record holder because of his great performance. But in the same way BCA should not approve the World Record because the table specification where altered beyond acceptable (bigger then 5 1/8 '').

But Jayson got some financially reward from "Legends" for his time and most viewers think his patterns improved a lot and he needed less then a week to run 700. So if the record doesn't get approved by BCA (which I hope), Jayson is a favorite so set a new world record on a regular 5'' table in a relatively small time frame.

 

[realkingcobra]

In my "feeling" or understanding of justice Jayson should be the world record holder because of his great performance. But in the same way BCA should not approve the World Record because the table specification where altered beyond acceptable (bigger then 5 1/8 '').

But Jayson got some financially reward from "Legends" for his time and most viewers think his patterns improved a lot and he needed less then a week to run 700. So if the record doesn't get approved by BCA (which I hope), Jayson is a favorite so set a new world record on a regular 5'' table in a relatively small time frame.

So you feel Jayson is the best there is at 14.1?

He's the best of 4 players right now, how many have NOT had a chance yet on that SAME table???

 

[kanzzo]

So you feel Jayson is the best there is at 14.1?

He's the best of 4 players right now, how many have NOT had a chance yet on that SAME table???

i meant you can't compare it, because they played on different equipment.

I don't want to see John Schmidt come back with 800+ on 6'' pockets and then Ruslan putting up 850+ on 7'' pockets...

On the Legends table he is just the best of the 4 that tried so far. This is correct. Would be still a Record of some kind.

 

[realkingcobra]

i said you can't compare it, because they played on different equipment.

I don't wont to see John Schmidt come back with 800+ on 6'' pockets and then Ruslan putting up 850+ on a 7'' pockets...

On the Legends table he is just the best of the 4 that tried so far. This is correct. Would be still a Record of some kind.

So then the big unanswered question still remains, is Bobby going to continue his search for the best there is, and keep paying out the so called financial reward to every player that comes along and breaks the high run record, pushing it higher and higher? Or is this event now dead in the water because its already served its purpose, and no need to let anyone else have a crack at the title, even better players at 14.1 than Jayson is??

 

[kanzzo]

Or is this event now dead in the water because its already served its purpose

the record isn't approved yet by BCA and I hope it won't

your other questions are not big questions for me. I would love to see other players trying to put incredible high runs and I enjoyed every one so far. But I have zero impact on this.

like in
"grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference"

perhaps I can have influence on the BCA decision in some way. Perhaps I can help pointing out to other members, where it would lead, if we accept new world records on bigger pockets every time.

I have no influence on Bobby, if he would like to proceed with this event...

If something similar can get organized for all the players with some crowd funding for the prizes, I am willing to chip in.

 

[Shuddy]

In my "feeling" or understanding of justice Jayson should be the world record holder because of his great performance. But in the same way BCA should not approve the World Record because the table specification where altered beyond acceptable (bigger then 5 1/8 '').

But Jayson got some financially reward from "Legends" for his time and most viewers think his patterns improved a lot and he needed less then a week to run 700. So if the record doesn't get approved by BCA (which I hope), Jayson is a favorite so set a new world record on a regular 5'' table in a relatively small time frame.

But there’s an assumption there that the pockets are bigger than 5 1/8”. I’m yet to see anything conclusive to prove they are.

But my point is that if Jayson didn’t do his due diligence, he’s going to feel a little bit of a schmuck if the BCA refuses to ratify the run. A (insert x numbers of dollars here) richer schmuck, but not a world record holding one.

I wouldn’t have let myself be put in that situation, and I don’t believe money was the only factor in the ridiculous display of stubborn head bashing he participated in for a week. EDIT: I think his closing statement on what he thought was his last session is proof of this: “Sorry guys, I couldn’t do it. But it can be done. I’ll be back. I know I can do it.” (approximately)

 

[kanzzo]

The video stream was not stopped and we had no idea Jason was gonna break any records. After he broke a record my commitee decided to secure the video to protect Jayson. Rumors are Terrible and speculation also. So that's our final statement for now. Thanks for all your hard work posting stats Gerry. Any further comments will be posted to our Facebook page The Legends of Pocket Billiards. Thanks again Gerry.

When the stream stopped, Bobby said the video would be posted later that day.

A man of integrity, a man of his word would keep his promise no matter the circumstances, that led to this promise.
If I am not thinking clearly when I promise my Grandma to pick her up at the airport I would still do everything to pick her up in time if it is somehow in the range of my possibilities.

For other people their word might be of lesser importance

I don't care if I have to pay to see Jayson's run in full. Just pointing out things I find interesting. Human behavior is an interesting topic...

 

[kanzzo]

But there’s an assumption there that the pockets are bigger than 5 1/8”. I’m yet to see anything conclusive to prove they are.

5 1/8'' is 5.125 this pocket is precisely 5.25. This photo was provided by Jayson after his record run.

If I zoom in on this photo on my monitor, then the two balls are 14.4 cm and pocket corner to corner is 16.8 cm. So no matter what your monitor and resolution, the pocket is 168/144 times bigger then the 2 balls. Since diameter of an aramith ball is exactly 2 1/4 '' this picture corresponds to exactly 5 1/4'' pockets (and 139° angle of the cushions)

 

[kanzzo]

But my point is that if Jayson didn’t do his due diligence, he’s going to feel a little bit of a schmuck if the BCA refuses to ratify the run. A (insert x numbers of dollars here) richer schmuck, but not a world record holding one.

quite possible. I would feel bad being in his shoes. But it wasn't a once in a lifetime opportunity for him. He can have another chance to become undisputed high run holder. He was still learning the game the first 3 days. He was shooting multiple 300+ the last days. He is one of the straightest shooters the world has seen. Everyone can make a mistake (like showing a lack of due diligence)...

 

[Shuddy]

quite possible. I would feel bad being in his shoes. But it wasn't a once in a lifetime opportunity for him. He can have another chance to become undisputed high run holder. He was still learning the game the first 3 days. He was shooting multiple 300+ the last days. He is one of the straightest shooters the world has seen. Everyone can make a mistake (like showing a lack of due diligence)...

Maybe, but I feel guilty about telling people my pockets were 4.25 inches, when It was recently pointed out to me that they are actually between 4.3” and 4.4”. However, yes, mistakes happen. And I don’t know Jayson. I can be a pedantic little shit.

 

[kanzzo]

I’m going to guess you failed the lying and credibility portion of the curriculum, lol.

Lou Figueroa

you would have guessed wrong.

But I understand your reaction. When people feel that they are not in control, they adopt what psychologists call a hostage mentality. That is, in moments of conflict they react to their lack of power by either becoming extremely defensive or lashing out.

Neurologically, in situations like this the flight-or-flight mechanism in the reptilian brain or the emotions in the limbic system overwhelm the rational part of our ming, the neocortex, leading us to overreact in an impulsive, instinctive way.

(This is from the book by Chris Voss, former FBI hostage negotiator)

By the way, if lying is a big part of your job description I could provide you with some further reading to improve your skills in this area.

 

[rjb1168]

So then the big unanswered question still remains, is Bobby going to continue his search for the best there is, and keep paying out the so called financial reward to every player that comes along and breaks the high run record, pushing it higher and higher? Or is this event now dead in the water because its already served its purpose, and no need to let anyone else have a crack at the title, even better players at 14.1 than Jayson is??

Let's just say it's dead in the water, here's your chance set up the event and you do all the work. Provide a
nice reward for someone who breaks the record. I am sure you could get Diamond to help you out with $. Your
all talk so get on it. The Cobra's 14:1 challenge $$$$$$

 

[kanzzo]

The video stream was not stopped and we had no idea Jason was gonna break any records. After he broke a record my commitee decided to secure the video to protect Jayson. Rumors are Terrible and speculation also. So that's our final statement for now. Thanks for all your hard work posting stats Gerry. Any further comments will be posted to our Facebook page The Legends of Pocket Billiards. Thanks again Gerry.

fun fact:
people hiding behind commitee decisions are often the ones in charge of the decision.

In a study of the componenets of lying*, Harvard Business School professor Deepak Malhotra and his coauthors found out, that on average, liars use more words than truth tellers and use far more third persons pronouns in order to put some distance between themselves and the lie.

The more in love they are with "I", "me" and "my" the less important they are.

Conversely, the harder it is to get a first person pronoun out of a negotiator's mouth, the more important they are. Smart decision makers don't want to be cornered at the table into making a decision. They will defer to the people away from the table to keep from getting pinned down.

*Lyn M. Va Swol, Michael T. Braun, and Deepak Malhotra, "Evidence for the Pinocchio Effect: Linguistic Differences Between Lies, Deception by Omissions, and Truths," Dcourse Processes 49, no. 2 (2012): 79-106

You can find the full article here.

 

[ChrisinNC]

If every table was the same, and 64 players competed, what would the complaints be?
Sounds like the top 8 players walked away with money because they played better than the other 56 players on identical tables.

I think part of his point was that for pro player playing in a 14.1 event, early round matches to 125 or 150 on tables like that, would be about like having races to 3 for a huge 9 ball pro tournament. Any miss at all could very likely be your last.

 

[logical]

BTW, I have just spoken at length with Bobby (who has just spoken to Jayson) and I have also spoken minutes ago to a well known table mechanic who is here at the Derby and discussed photos of our pockets and we, the Legends of Pocket Billiards, are good.

I stand by what we have provided here about the pockets.

Lou Figueroa

Nobody here expected anything else.

I think the mechanic should be named so he can be congratulated for pushing the rails that far out and not have them fall completely off the edge of the slate.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[ChrisinNC]

So then the big unanswered question still remains, is Bobby going to continue his search for the best there is, and keep paying out the so called financial reward to every player that comes along and breaks the high run record, pushing it higher and higher? Or is this event now dead in the water because its already served its purpose, and no need to let anyone else have a crack at the title, even better players at 14.1 than Jayson is??

I would guess just like most promoters in the pool industry, he does not have unlimited financial resources to keep handsomely rewarding every player that breaks the world record, and on this table, that is very likely what eventually would happen.

And if that is very possibly the real reason they have stopped, do you really think you’re gonna get an honest admittance of that, considering the way they have been spinning everything else to us in the last week, namely their decision to not reveal the sizes of the pockets.

 

[ChrisinNC]

5 1/8'' is 5.125 this pocket is precisely 5.25. This photo was provided by Jayson after his record run.

If I zoom in on this photo on my monitor, then the two balls are 14.4 cm and pocket corner to corner is 16.8 cm. So no matter what your monitor and resolution, the pocket is 168/144 times bigger then the 2 balls. Since diameter of an aramith ball is exactly 2 1/4 '' this picture corresponds to exactly 5 1/4'' pockets (and 139° angle of the cushions)


View attachment 625987

Yes, a number of us on here have already concurred on that from this photo as well, and remember, those balls are sitting well inside the pocket mouth. If you are using two balls to measure a pocket mouth, the centers of the balls pass through the mouth points. These two balls are sitting 1/2 ball’s width or 1-1/8 inches inside the true pocket mouth. The photo does not lie!

 

[ChrisinNC]

Nobody here expected anything else.

I think the mechanic should be named so he can be congratulated for pushing the rails that far out and not have them fall completely off the edge of the slate.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

This certainly gets my vote for the best/funniest post in this entire thread!

 

[The_JV]

But doesn’t the scale tell a different story?

In my specific sample yes it does. However I could use on the pairs I have that doens't include the scale. My image is an extreme example of the point.

The point is that digital clamps can have their read outs manlipulated, and when dealings with increments in the 0.062 range it's significantly more difficult to use the scale.

I am not claiming that the group at Legends of Billiard Pocket Billiards have done anything nefarious. Just saying hat we need to stop hanging our hats on the pic of this digital clamp.

 

[lfigueroa]

What I said is perfectly reasonable, to a reasonable person.

Says who, lol.

Lou Figueroa