Stevie Moore parallel shots CTE video

[mohrt]

Thanks for the reply. I'm beginning to remember why I gave up on these threads last time. I show clear evidence of mid-stroke adjustments and even swooping and all the CTE people, JB in particular, say "Nope, nothing to see here." If everybody weren't so defensive that their image of CTE might be altered, and joined the effort to learn more, then maybe both sides of the debate would learn something.



About the stroke corrections -- unless you have analyzed a stroke in slow motion with video analysis software, then you can't make the claim that no stroke adjustments are being made. I'm not saying they are intentional, they just happen.







How do you really know? I can pocket a ball with the corner to corner shot, follow it in with the cue ball, and still have a swoop that I can't really detect unless I see it on camera.







Unfortunately my experience in this forum is that new ideas, if they challenge the orthodoxy, are not welcome. For instance:



There's an older video of Dave Segal, a practitioner of CTE, running some balls in straight pool. I only watched two of his break shots and you could drive a mack truck through the swoop in his stroke just before the forward motion of the cue. He pivots, takes some practice strokes, and then delivers the cue in a direction completely different from the practice strokes. (break shots are easier to analyze because the stroke is usually longer, and the additional speed tends to amplify any small stroke error, IMO).



Now, I don't say that to criticize. He's apparently quite a good player, and this video was some years ago. But, he was clearly using CTE and I make the simple observation that the direction of his "shot" stroke does not resemble the "practice" strokes. Maybe that is OK and CTE doesn't require a straight stroke as long as you have set up in the correct position. I don't know, but I do know that nobody who uses CTE seems at all interested in this information. I get more of a "Burn the witch!" vibe.

A swoop or correction in stroke is not part of CTE. If someone is swooping then that is a habit of their play. They could probably take corrective action and better their game. But it is not a part of, or requirement of CTE itself.

Stroke is another topic of the game, and an important one at that. You have to aim straight and stroke straight. You have to have solid fundamentals to back up any aiming system.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Re the bold part. I'm playing along with your thinking, but how do you know that is happening? Can you answer my first question: IF you use CTE and it works well for you, and IF you don't understand FOR A FACT how it works, then how can you rule out any alternative possibilities as to how it works?

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

 

[lfigueroa]

Thanks for the reply. I'm beginning to remember why I gave up on these threads last time. I show clear evidence of mid-stroke adjustments and even swooping and all the CTE people, JB in particular, say "Nope, nothing to see here." If everybody weren't so defensive that their image of CTE might be altered, and joined the effort to learn more, then maybe both sides of the debate would learn something.

About the stroke corrections -- unless you have analyzed a stroke in slow motion with video analysis software, then you can't make the claim that no stroke adjustments are being made. I'm not saying they are intentional, they just happen.



How do you really know? I can pocket a ball with the corner to corner shot, follow it in with the cue ball, and still have a swoop that I can't really detect unless I see it on camera.



Unfortunately my experience in this forum is that new ideas, if they challenge the orthodoxy, are not welcome. For instance:

There's an older video of Dave Segal, a practitioner of CTE, running some balls in straight pool. I only watched two of his break shots and you could drive a mack truck through the swoop in his stroke just before the forward motion of the cue. He pivots, takes some practice strokes, and then delivers the cue in a direction completely different from the practice strokes. (break shots are easier to analyze because the stroke is usually longer, and the additional speed tends to amplify any small stroke error, IMO).

Now, I don't say that to criticize. He's apparently quite a good player, and this video was some years ago. But, he was clearly using CTE and I make the simple observation that the direction of his "shot" stroke does not resemble the "practice" strokes. Maybe that is OK and CTE doesn't require a straight stroke as long as you have set up in the correct position. I don't know, but I do know that nobody who uses CTE seems at all interested in this information. I get more of a "Burn the witch!" vibe.

Maybe CTE only works if you have a swoop in your stroke?

And I say that only semi-facetiously. Reputedly, HH picked some of this CTE stuff up from Greenleaf who, if the available video is any indication at all, had a huge snarly swoop in his stroke.

Maybe it dan't work if you have a straight, piston-like stoke?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Well that's the problem right there in a nutshell. You shouldn't be surprised by this. Most of us "deniers," Lou included, started this CTE journey with interest in what it was all about. Where things go sour is when CTE supporters start talking gibberish and then attack the skeptics. Only now are people starting to say they don't really understand it but it just works. Instead, we get treated to a line of crap that sounds technical but doesn't mean anything.

I like mohrt and tony's take on this: They believe there is some optical illusion that occurs that tricks you into seeing the same "set up" and getting different results. Why not just say that from the beginning and leave it at that? Of course I'm sure there are ways to prove that idea one way or the other, but, again, I'm afraid too many people here are afraid to challenge the orthodoxy (hence the "cult" reference).

Of course. We're all interested.

But right from the get-go there was this aura of: you can't question it, you must believe, scientology, Jonestown mysticism about it. Question it and you are "a hater."

Unfortunamente, the CTErs are their own worst enemy with their, "drink the Kool-Aid or shut up" mentality.

Lou Figueroa

 

[mohrt]

Of course. We're all interested.

But right from the get-go there was this aura of: you can't question it, you must believe, scientology, Jonestown mysticism about it. Question it and you are "a hater."

Unfortunamente, the CTErs are their own worst enemy with their, "drink the Kool-Aid or shut up" mentality.

Lou Figueroa

Says the man with quotes like "CTE is baloney", and "it's all to make a buck". THAT is where the mud slinging started, not from the other side.

 

[Dan White]

A swoop or correction in stroke is not part of CTE. If someone is swooping then that is a habit of their play. They could probably take corrective action and better their game. But it is not a part of, or requirement of CTE itself.

Stroke is another topic of the game, and an important one at that. You have to aim straight and stroke straight. You have to have solid fundamentals to back up any aiming system.

I think you might be missing the significance of the stroke adjustment. If we look at this objectively, without any predisposed opinions, you can't help but wonder if the shot is made BECAUSE OF the stroke correction/swoop motion. I've seen shots on video that absolutely would not have been made without the correction. Does that mean CTE isn't working and is no good? I'm not sure, maybe maybe not, but it seems to me that you are coming from a position that CTE works exactly as advertised, and so any swoop is only going to make you less successful. That's backwards thinking.

 

[mohrt]

I think you might be missing the significance of the stroke adjustment. If we look at this objectively, without any predisposed opinions, you can't help but wonder if the shot is made BECAUSE OF the stroke correction/swoop motion. I've seen shots on video that absolutely would not have been made without the correction. Does that mean CTE isn't working and is no good? I'm not sure, maybe maybe not, but it seems to me that you are coming from a position that CTE works exactly as advertised, and so any swoop is only going to make you less successful. That's backwards thinking.

You will have to prove your claims, I've never heard of CTE relying on a swoop. Do you the think Williams has a swoop? He has many videos posted.

And just thinking about it, playing with a swoop would make things extremely hard to be consistent. But that is the outcome for those with a decent stroke.

 

[stan shuffett]

Stroke error

There are assertions being made that my stroke is adjusting in order to successfully pocket balls with CTE.

I will award $25000 to the BEF if assessment of my stroke by video analysis shows adjustments for making CTE work. I want fair videoing and judging. I choose Dr. DAVE, Bob Jewett, Pat Johnson and Mike Page. A video highlite compilation and the findings must be presented on this forum.
The analysis must take place at my facility before January 1, 2018.

Stan Shuffett

 

[tonythetiger583]

Of course. We're all interested.

But right from the get-go there was this aura of: you can't question it, you must believe, scientology, Jonestown mysticism about it. Question it and you are "a hater."

Unfortunamente, the CTErs are their own worst enemy with their, "drink the Kool-Aid or shut up" mentality.

Lou Figueroa

Says the man with quotes like "CTE is baloney", and "it's all to make a buck". THAT is where the mud slinging started, not from the other side.

Even if it is "mud slinging" (which as much as I read these flame wars, it isn't) Yelling and bickering only discredit's the image of CTE further.

To an outsider, it looks like normal people asking normal questions, and fanatics jumping down peoples throats. All it does is alienate people. No one's going to go yeah, well if he's willing to challenge this guy to 1000$ races, maybe there is something to this system.

I'm just saying "they started it first" is not a valid reason to make CTE look worse than it already does.

Have some integrity people.

Answer what you can, admit you don't know what you don't know and always be polite. It's common sense...I think...

 

[mohrt]

Even if it is "mud slinging" (which as much as I read these flame wars, it isn't) Yelling and bickering only discredit's the image of CTE further.



To an outsider, it looks like normal people asking normal questions, and fanatics jumping down peoples throats. All it does is alienate people. No one's going to go yeah, well if he's willing to challenge this guy to 1000$ races, maybe there is something to this system.



I'm just saying "they started it first" is not a valid reason to make CTE look worse than it already does.



Have some integrity people.



Answer what you can, admit you don't know what you don't know and always be polite. It's common sense...I think...

To me this is pot calling the kettle black. But there are colorful posters from both sides any more.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Well that's the problem right there in a nutshell. You shouldn't be surprised by this. Most of us "deniers," Lou included, started this CTE journey with interest in what it was all about.

You're out of your ever loving mind!! I wasn't around for RSB but I've been able to go back to the beginning of time in the archives to see that Lou was an antagonist immediately along with Pat Johnson from the first time Hal Houle posted. Neither of them had an interest in it for their own games but to bash it JUST LIKE YOU. The only reason you've gotten involved is to learn enough to be able to attempt dissecting various aspects to continue this daily harangue you're hell bent on carrying out. Don't even think about pulling this crap over me or anyone else.

What I'm SURPRISED about is Jasonlaus publicly APOLOGIZING. His stock went waaaaay up as a man and good human being as well as my respect for him. It's something you, Lou, or PJ would NEVER do even if it was proven by the Supreme Court to work perfectly as stated. None of you are "man" enough and far too ego driven to even contemplate apologizing for two decades of constant negative harassment. It wouldn't stop until all of you are in your graves or turned into ashes.

Where things go sour is when CTE supporters start talking gibberish and then attack the skeptics

Things went sour back in 1998 with LOU FIGUEROA AND PAT JOHNSON and have continued since then with both or them as primary attackers. Happily, Pat Johnson is in exile but you self appointed yourself to take his place.

Only now are people starting to say they don't really understand it but it just works.

Nope! Everyone who ever got involved with it even with Hal said it. I said it myself when Hal was teaching it to me. It was baffling to see balls going in while aligning in such a different way but pretty much the same way for all shots.

Instead, we get treated to a line of crap that sounds technical but doesn't mean anything.

We get treated to a line of crap by the likes of you, Lou, and anyone stupid enough to attach themselfve on your bandwagon.

I like mohrt and tony's take on this: They believe there is some optical illusion that occurs that tricks you into seeing the same "set up" and getting different results. Why not just say that from the beginning and leave it at that? Of course I'm sure there are ways to prove that idea one way or the other, but, again, I'm afraid too many people here are afraid to challenge the orthodoxy (hence the "cult" reference).

Stick the "Cult" cry as deep as you can where the sun doesn't shine on you. There IS NO CULT! Anybody is free to delve into CTE. All are free to opt out at any time and say it isn't for them. Any pool player who plays worse with it would be insane to continue and have their game deteriorate as a result of using it just to be in a "cult". This cry of "CULT" from the likes of you and others is ridiculously disgusting. It either works for each individual or it doesn't. Nobody wants to play worse. How moronic would that be?

We could probably compare it to the Diamond System for just moving balls all around the table. You can get a general idea of how it works and play around with it or really put in the time to become an excellent mover of banks, safeties, and position play.

The same with banking systems. Players can learn from Freddy the Beard's book or John Brumback and up their games. IT TAKES TIME AND WORK. Most aren't willing to put that much into it. But that's why Brumback and Freddy got where they did with banking. They had the knowledge, put in the time, worked on it and ingrained it into their very soul.

I've seen Lou knock BOTH OF THEM also. Are you kidding me? Lou was such an incessant knocker, basher, antagonist, trouble maker on www.onepocket.org that he got banned from there since the very beginning of this year and may be a lifetime ban because of it. Too bad it hasn't happened here.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I'm beginning to remember why I gave up on these threads last time.

There's really nothing standing in your way to give up on these threads once again. IMO, I and a number of others would welcome your departure and implore you to use your good common sense that you did before.


I show clear evidence of mid-stroke adjustments and even swooping and all the CTE people, JB in particular, say "Nope, nothing to see here." If everybody weren't so defensive that their image of CTE might be altered, and joined the effort to learn more, then maybe both sides of the debate would learn something.

About the stroke corrections -- unless you have analyzed a stroke in slow motion with video analysis software, then you can't make the claim that no stroke adjustments are being made. I'm not saying they are intentional, they just happen.

Now that you've become the "STROKE EXPERT" in the country after reading Mark Wilson's book, why aren't you starting positive threads in the main forum instead of negative garbage in the Aiming Forum. I've asked you to do it a number of times. You're letting all of this expertise and talent of your go to waste.

There's an older video of Dave Segal, a practitioner of CTE, running some balls in straight pool. I only watched two of his break shots and you could drive a mack truck through the swoop in his stroke just before the forward motion of the cue. He pivots, takes some practice strokes, and then delivers the cue in a direction completely different from the practice strokes. (break shots are easier to analyze because the stroke is usually longer, and the additional speed tends to amplify any small stroke error, IMO).

Now, I don't say that to criticize. He's apparently quite a good player, and this video was some years ago. But, he was clearly using CTE and I make the simple observation that the direction of his "shot" stroke does not resemble the "practice" strokes.

When balls split the pockets over and over from all cut angles on the table, there's no need to micro analyze form or technique on me, Bustamante, Earl, or anyone else to prove they're not perfect in the delivery. Not that I'm in their league, certainly I'm not, but just sayin'.

START THE STROKE THREAD IN THE MAIN FORUM AND QUIT BEING A DESTRUCTIVE LOCUST IN HERE.

 

[JMS]

FWIW, years after watching Stan's DVD, I still have no clue what swooping left or right means....In the DVD a left and right swoop look exactly the same to me...So I just keep playing with 90/90 with an air pivot..If I understood the swoops better I probably would dedicate some more time to it...And for the record, I have not contacted Stan with regards to the swoops...I figure he's too busy, or I just can't grasp the concept of the swoops to even bother contacting him.

 

[lfigueroa]

There are assertions being made that my stroke is adjusting in order to successfully pocket balls with CTE.

I will award $10,000 to the BEF if assessment of my stroke by video analysis shows adjustments for making CTE work. I want fair videoing and judging. I choose Dr. DAVE, Bob Jewett, Pat Johnson and Mike Page. A video highlite compilation and the findings must be presented on this forum.
The analysis must take place at my facility before January 1, 2018.

Stan Shuffett

Totally unnecessary and highly unlikely to happen and you know it. Besides, Dan has already shown you swoop.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Even if it is "mud slinging" (which as much as I read these flame wars, it isn't) Yelling and bickering only discredit's the image of CTE further.

To an outsider, it looks like normal people asking normal questions, and fanatics jumping down peoples throats. All it does is alienate people. No one's going to go yeah, well if he's willing to challenge this guy to 1000$ races, maybe there is something to this system.

I'm just saying "they started it first" is not a valid reason to make CTE look worse than it already does.

Have some integrity people.

Answer what you can, admit you don't know what you don't know and always be polite. It's common sense...I think...

The CTErs are incapable of admitting anything less than total devotion and unwavering belief in their system, even in instances of being unable to explain how it works and in the face of evidence the system cannot work as described.

Lou Figueroa

 

[stan shuffett]

Totally unnecessary and highly unlikely to happen and you know it. Besides, Dan has already shown you swoop.

Lou Figueroa

I am a man of my word. The offer exists and is now bumped to $25,000. No, it likely will not happen because anyone that is in the know knows otherwise. But just in case someone really believes my stroke consists of swooping.....$25000 is fairly good incentive to put me in my place or see if my word holds up or not.

Stan Shuffett

 

[ENGLISH!]

The CTErs are incapable of admitting anything less than total devotion and unwavering belief in their system, even in instances of being unable to explain how it works and in the face of evidence the system cannot work as described.

Lou Figueroa

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

 

[stan shuffett]

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

I did not know that a weasel could be muzzled.

Stan Shuffett

 

[SpiderWebComm]

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

Why is this trouble maker who was on a lifetime ban allowed back and especially posting ANYTHING in this forum where he has been told to stay out?

He belongs where the Thaiger and all of his aliases have been sent.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

The CTErs are incapable of admitting anything less than total devotion and unwavering belief in their system, even in instances of being unable to explain how it works and in the face of evidence the system cannot work as described.

Lou Figueroa

You're incapable of controlling yourself after 20 straight years of bashing CTE.

It would be nice to see them do here what was done on onepocket.org.

lfigueroa
Suspended

Bye-bye Lou, FOREVER.