Stiffest Low Deflection Shafts
- Thread starter CueAndMe
- Start date
gobrian77 said:
Yes, but it doesn't look like they reduce the end mass for lower deflection. In order for the super low deflection, don't the ends of the shafts have to either hollowed out or reduced in mass by use of lighter materials? It looks like the Dominiaks are radially balanced and maybe tapered to be stiff, but still all maple.
bluepepper said:
Based on measurements I've heard from others and have done myself, the low-squirt pivot lengths listed at Platinum are shorter than I expected. Maybe that's because they eliminate most swerve by hitting the shots at 15 MPH.
I don't really trust their numbers - one big reason is that they don't control where the tip hits the cue ball. They measure "tip offset" to the center of the shaft no matter how wide it is or how the tip is shaped.
Smaller tips are getting more popular, so different tapers are being tried and the selection is growing. Mine is dead straight from the bumper to the tip. I believe that's the strongest way to have the most gradual increase at the tip end.
Yes and yes (maybe even no ferrule), and maybe hollow too (but don't tell Predator). I like the 11mm Predators I've seen (do they have a Euro taper?), and you can get them for any butt.
pj
chgo
Looking again, the 11mm Predators do have the Euro taper. The McDermott is also 11mm.
I wonder about this 11mm thing. Isn't there a ball size to tip size ideal? The smaller tip for snooker makes sense because of the smaller cueball. Why are the tips getting snooker-small for pool? What do we lose when we reduce the size of the tip?
I wonder about this 11mm thing. Isn't there a ball size to tip size ideal? The smaller tip for snooker makes sense because of the smaller cueball. Why are the tips getting snooker-small for pool? What do we lose when we reduce the size of the tip?
bluepepper said:
Smaller "sweet spot", exagerates flaws in the stroke, easier to impart unintended english.
Gain: The ability to more precicely hit closer to the edge of the cueball, allowing more spin to be applied without miscue.
There is no smaller "sweet spot" (whatever that is) - in fact, the contact area of a smaller tip is exactly the same size, and in exactly the same place, as the contact area of a bigger tip. That's because a smaller tip is just the center part of a bigger tip, the only part that gets used anyway.
And a smaller tip doesn't "exaggerate flaws" or make it any easier to spin the CB. These are myths.
You can see better where you're hitting the CB, and that can make it easier to hit farther from center, but it doesn't "allow more spin to be applied". You can't get more spin with a small tip than you can with a bigger one.
pj
chgo
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bluepepper said:
I don't think anything is lost except maybe some stiffness if you don't change the taper.
Why would you think there's a ball size to tip size ideal?
pj
chgo
Patrick Johnson said:
I would think that over many years and many experiments, an ideal relationship between tip size and ball size would have been found.
About the tip sweet spot...
Isn't it true that the smaller the diameter of the tip, the closer to the center of the shaft the strike will be? Imagine a 1mm tip and shaft compared with a 20mm tip and shaft. No matter how far to the side of the cueball you strike, the opposing force from the cueball will be more centered down the 1mm shaft than the 20mm shaft. I think.
bluepepper said:
No they are not accurate.
Who know what shaft they used for that. Tiger "X" Shafts have been around for 6 years, and have gone through many changes over that time. The "X" Ultra Shaft of today, is nothing like the 1st version.
hard english
Registered
bluepepper said:
You are right. The shaft has no hollow sections, but hollow sections (or hollow ferrule) will significantly reduce the feel/feedback of a shaft. The Dominator D2 has a short ferrule with a large tenon - meaning the amount of material is minimal at the end of the shaft. At the same time the ferrule material is linen base so it is strong yet soft enough to give a nice feel. The ferrule is also uncapped so you get direct energy transfer from the tip to the ferrule to the shaft.
I have hit with a Dominator D2 and a 314-2 side by side. The D2 has more of a "ping" to it and the 314-2 (314-2 has a hollow section in the front) has more of a "thud" to it (imho the D2 has better feel and feadback). As far as deflection, if there is any difference it is not noticeable. I might add the taper on the D2 is similar to the 314-2 but not the same. This is done on purpose because Dominiak says when he asked his loyal customers about tapers most of them replied on how much they like the 314-2 taper. If I might add, the 314-2 is very nice shaft - in no way am I saying it is a poor shaft. The 314-2 has been the standard.
The radial sections in a Dominator D2 are quarter sawn - meaning that the grain is vertical in each section. The maple used is also very good quailty - has more grains per inch than most any other shaft on the market and is straight grain from end one to the other. Dominiak has the luxury of selecting high quality maple because he produces it and has been producing maple for other cue makers for over twenty years. Considering that the D2 goes for $165 it is a bargain.
Dominiak has been producing the Dominator for over seven years, so it's not like he just started making them yesterday. He's been producing cues for more than fifteen years - He learned how to build cues from Leonard Bludworth.
I know Bill Dominiak personally (surprise!) and I'm very familiar with his operation. That's why I can give all this info.
In the end, the hit of a cue/shaft all comes down to preference. I like Dominiak's stuff because I think he understands the dynamics of how a cue should hit and feel.
Based on what? What theoretical advantage might there be?
No - the smaller the radius of the tip's curvature the closer to the center of the shaft the strike will be, but that has nothing to do with tip diameter.
Here's a drawing that might help to visualize why:
This drawing shows which part of the tip hits the cue ball at the the miscue limit (30 degrees from centerball). When the tip and cue ball touch 30 degrees from the cue ball's center, they're also touching 30 degrees from the tip's center - it's the only way two curved surfaces can touch (just like a cue ball and object ball). And if two tips are the same curvature, then the point on their surfaces that's 30 degrees from center is exactly the same distance from center for each. It doesn't matter how wide the two tips are overall, as long at both are wide enough to have at least 30 degrees of arc per side (the miscue limit on a cue ball). You can see from this drawing that even my teenytiny 10mm tip has 30 degrees per side.
Any "extra" tip (beyond 30 degrees from center) is wasted tip width, because it will never touch the cue ball except on a miscue - so any tip over about 10mm wide is wider than you need for pool (unless the shaft's structural differences matter to you). Wide tips and narrow tips both hit the balls with the same part of the tip (the middle) and the bigger one doesn't use the "extra" part of the tip at all - in effect, we all play with the 10mm tips that are contained within our wider tips.
pj
chgo
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hard english said:
I have a D2 and predators and OB-1's and the D2 is nowhere near the predator in terms of deflection. The D2 plays pretty much like a standard shaft, with just a tiny, tiny bit less deflection. But not anywhere in the ultra low deflection category like the ob-1 or predators. My Universal Smart Shaft also has noticeably less deflection than the D2, and the USS is not as low as the predators. You can only get the deflection so low with a solid maple shaft. It is a nice shaft though, feels good, but I wouldn't call it low deflection. I don't really like the taper, it is very conical, I got mine retapered to more of a standard pro taper. The only other shaft I've seen that is as low deflection as the ob-1 or predators is the Cuetec R360. That shaft is also fairly stiff because of the graphite rod inside. It's actually a very nice shaft, I like it a lot. Taper is similar to the ob-1.
Patrick Johnson said:
Excellent post PJ. It raises a couple of questions.
What is the advantage/disadvantage of the dime radius versus the nickel radius?
If you have a 13mm cue and a 10mm cue both with a nickel radius, won't the 13mm cue have more leather on the ball's surface? Wouldn't this extra surface area (which is not beyond the 30 degree max) reduce the possibility of a miscue?
If shaft/tip diameter has no impact on the performace of the cueball why use anything but a standard 13mm tip?
Patrick Johnson said:
Interesting, but it seems like you are oversimplifying the physics between the contact of the tip to the cue ball. Although the cueball does not move or flex, the tip does; enough so that it effects what parts of the tip are in contact with the cue ball. Watch the video of the tip hitting the cue ball on the front page of this site. The tip flexes as it hits the cue ball. I could be missing your whole point though
I'm not sure....Tip Center?
Sorry, but I can't understand your explanation. You refer to the "tip's center" like it is a fixed point, but then it appears you slide it up and down the ferral till it coincides with a location that validates your explanation. Sorry if I misunderstand your point. There is no badgering here; truly, I am trying to comprehend this.
Patrick Johnson said:
Sorry, but I can't understand your explanation. You refer to the "tip's center" like it is a fixed point, but then it appears you slide it up and down the ferral till it coincides with a location that validates your explanation. Sorry if I misunderstand your point. There is no badgering here; truly, I am trying to comprehend this.
shankster8 said:
Sorry, I don't understand your question, but I'll try to put my point another way:
A smaller tip is just a bigger tip with the outside layer removed, and that outside layer never gets used anyway - only the central part ever touches the cue ball. So both tips hit the cue ball in exactly the same way and in exactly the same places - the bigger tip just has some extra, unused material surrounding the part that is actually used.
pj
chgo