poolpop63...In this country, you can sue anybody for any reason. Whether you win or not is the issue. IMO, the OP would not win in this situation.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Stolen
- Thread starter nathandumoulin
- Start date
As a room owner Im always sorry to hear these things.
In my room, they have a cabinet to keep their cue cases in, but I tell them that I will not be responsible for any loss, and they must keep it locked even when they have their cues out to play.
Players are always walking around the room, and we can`t watch all of them.
If I see someone take something thats a hole new deal. Police time.
highrun55
In my room, they have a cabinet to keep their cue cases in, but I tell them that I will not be responsible for any loss, and they must keep it locked even when they have their cues out to play.
Players are always walking around the room, and we can`t watch all of them.
If I see someone take something thats a hole new deal. Police time.
highrun55
hfelsh said:I feel compelled to respond. the owner IS responsible, and they ARE supposed to carry insurance. It's required by law; if someone gets their head cracked open by a bar cue, the establishment is liable. The owner and/or bar staff accepted responsibility for the items when they agreed to store them, paid or not. Loss of your items means THEY, the business, are responsible to replace them. Period.
Was it dumb on your part? Sure. But it doesn't make them any less liable for the loss/theft.
And this type of Insurance is general liability-insurance which covers in any act of some one getting hurt/injured in/on the property of the business, general liability insurance does not cover the contents inside the building whether it belongs to you or the pool room.
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Thanks Mickey! I knew that was the case. Perhaps some other room owners would like to chime in, and reiterate the same thing!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
highrun55 said:
on the other hand, if this is your favorite room. you do not want to piss off the owner.
so i would not push it too hard
carl
so i would not push it too hard
carl
lets man up
Although I really do feel for your loss, might be as bad as losing a pet to some, I have to reply my feelings on this. I am an avid lurker, but for you to want to put the blame on the pool room, for doing you a favor, a convenience to you, seems sort of nitty. Take solace in you new Mezz's.
It is disappointing that some posters always want to blame others than take responsibility for their actions (decisions). You wanted to leave your cues there, even though not fully secure.
Room owners want and need your business and most try to please their customers. In case this, if the owner should find out who took your cues, I am sure they would lose their job and probably be prosecuted.
Would you like to have your room closed or have to charge higher rates for your unwillingness to carry your cue in and out? Let us think of the future of pool and pool rooms in general. SOME POOL PLAYERS DON'T GET IT - REAL POOL PLAYERS DO ! That is my two cents worth. Thanks
Although I really do feel for your loss, might be as bad as losing a pet to some, I have to reply my feelings on this. I am an avid lurker, but for you to want to put the blame on the pool room, for doing you a favor, a convenience to you, seems sort of nitty. Take solace in you new Mezz's.
It is disappointing that some posters always want to blame others than take responsibility for their actions (decisions). You wanted to leave your cues there, even though not fully secure.
Room owners want and need your business and most try to please their customers. In case this, if the owner should find out who took your cues, I am sure they would lose their job and probably be prosecuted.
Would you like to have your room closed or have to charge higher rates for your unwillingness to carry your cue in and out? Let us think of the future of pool and pool rooms in general. SOME POOL PLAYERS DON'T GET IT - REAL POOL PLAYERS DO ! That is my two cents worth. Thanks
Craig said:
Actually that is not entirely true. I'd guess it varies from policy to policy. My particular policy covered customer items in my care and I once had to use it to replace $3500 in customer cues that were stolen from my shop.
State Farm paid up when I received letters stating value from Bill Stroud at Joss West and from Schuler Cues and they didn't raise my premium either.
I think that most likely the liability insurance would cover such a loss.
How General Liability Works
Under a general liability insurance policy, the insurer is obligated to pay the legal costs of a business in a covered liability claim or lawsuit. Covered liability claims include bodily injury, property damage, personal injury, and advertising injury (damage from slander or false advertising). The insurance company also covers compensatory and general damages. Punitive damages aren't covered under general liability insurance policies because they're considered to be punishment for intentional acts.
General liability insurance policies always state a maximum amount that the insurer will pay during the policy period. Usually these policies also list the maximum amount the insurer will pay per occurrence. For example, if a company has a $1 million occurrence cap in its liability policy and it's successfully sued for $1.5 million, the insurer would pay $1 million and the business would be responsible for paying $500,000.
To cover these types of situations, many companies purchase umbrella liability insurance, which picks up where their general liability coverage ends. Umbrella liability covers payments that exceed their other policy's limits, and provides additional coverage for liabilities not covered in a standard liability insurance policy.
Most insurance companies require their policyholders to report as soon as possible any accidents that could lead to a liability claim. The insurer may then require the business owner to document the situation, forward all summonses and legal notices, and cooperate fully in any investigations.
Taking precautions before an accident can help keep your liability and insurance rates down. All businesses can take certain steps to lower the chance of a liability insurance claim:
Set a high standard for product quality control;
Make sure all company records are complete and up-to-date;
Be sure employees are properly trained;
Get safety tips for your type of business from your insurance company.
Under a general liability insurance policy, the insurer is obligated to pay the legal costs of a business in a covered liability claim or lawsuit. Covered liability claims include bodily injury, property damage, personal injury, and advertising injury (damage from slander or false advertising). The insurance company also covers compensatory and general damages. Punitive damages aren't covered under general liability insurance policies because they're considered to be punishment for intentional acts.
General liability insurance policies always state a maximum amount that the insurer will pay during the policy period. Usually these policies also list the maximum amount the insurer will pay per occurrence. For example, if a company has a $1 million occurrence cap in its liability policy and it's successfully sued for $1.5 million, the insurer would pay $1 million and the business would be responsible for paying $500,000.
To cover these types of situations, many companies purchase umbrella liability insurance, which picks up where their general liability coverage ends. Umbrella liability covers payments that exceed their other policy's limits, and provides additional coverage for liabilities not covered in a standard liability insurance policy.
Most insurance companies require their policyholders to report as soon as possible any accidents that could lead to a liability claim. The insurer may then require the business owner to document the situation, forward all summonses and legal notices, and cooperate fully in any investigations.
Taking precautions before an accident can help keep your liability and insurance rates down. All businesses can take certain steps to lower the chance of a liability insurance claim:
Set a high standard for product quality control;
Make sure all company records are complete and up-to-date;
Be sure employees are properly trained;
Get safety tips for your type of business from your insurance company.
I do not think you would win in court.
I think the owner should offer to compensate you in some way, because iit is good business, NOT because he is legally or otherwise bound to.
I think it is similar to " hey can you keep an eye on my cues? I have to use the bathroom". The guy will almost always say " yeah, sure". You come back and he is on the other side of the pool room with his back turned away from the your cues. Is he responsible if they were stolen?
To me the implied agreement is " if I actually witness someone trying to steal your cues and walk with them, between my shots during my own game, I will challenge them. If I happen to be preoccupied with something
else, I am sorry you lost your cues. I did not come to the pool hall to be a cue babysitter, I came to play pool. I would keep an eye on them, NOT my full attention. Likewise, a pool hall is in the business of renting tables, NOT cue babysitting. As has been said, if there is a lock and key situation and a safe rental is involved, it can be a different story. Even so, there is usually a disclaimer about liablility, or at least a limit to their liablity. They won't cover your $5000 cue, etc etc. You would also have to prove what cue was lost and document its value, than that value would be depreciated for its age and condition,etc.
Obviously if you leave your cue on the table directly next to mine, it is very unlikely that someone will take it without me noticing it. I would make every effort to keep anything from happening to it, but in the end it is your cue, and you had better things to do than watch over it during that time. I would feel terrible, and may offer any help I could, but would not feel obligated for full replacement value of said cue. It was too inconvenient for you to put it away, or take it with you, so you assume the risks with that decision.
I have in the past left the pool room in a hurry and left my cue fully assembled laying on the table. I was more than hlf way home when I suddenly realized this. I called the pool room in a panic and found that my cue had been put away safely behind the counter. It was my fault alone. I happen to get lucky.
I have also had a cue stolen right off a table when I went into the back room to check on some stock. It really sucks, but I had no one to blame but myself.
I have worked in many pool rooms, and have felt comfortable enough to leave my cues in pool rooms ( also ones in which I was not employed). I do not feel that the owner has a responsibility to take care of my cues or replace them if they go missing. In the event of a loss, I may ask the owner what he suggests to do about it, but would not demand it, or take action.
I think a fair solution in many cases would be for the owner to help chip in for the purchase of a new cue. For example if it was a predator, he could order you a new model of comparable value and agree to pay a portion of his wholesale cost for that cue ( with no retail markups). I think it would be a good compromise and you could get another cue for a good deal less than the full replacement costs out of pocket. Though it sounds like you are in good shape with a sponsor, so you are ahead of where a lot of players in a similar situation would be.
Just my take
JW
I think the owner should offer to compensate you in some way, because iit is good business, NOT because he is legally or otherwise bound to.
I think it is similar to " hey can you keep an eye on my cues? I have to use the bathroom". The guy will almost always say " yeah, sure". You come back and he is on the other side of the pool room with his back turned away from the your cues. Is he responsible if they were stolen?
To me the implied agreement is " if I actually witness someone trying to steal your cues and walk with them, between my shots during my own game, I will challenge them. If I happen to be preoccupied with something
else, I am sorry you lost your cues. I did not come to the pool hall to be a cue babysitter, I came to play pool. I would keep an eye on them, NOT my full attention. Likewise, a pool hall is in the business of renting tables, NOT cue babysitting. As has been said, if there is a lock and key situation and a safe rental is involved, it can be a different story. Even so, there is usually a disclaimer about liablility, or at least a limit to their liablity. They won't cover your $5000 cue, etc etc. You would also have to prove what cue was lost and document its value, than that value would be depreciated for its age and condition,etc.
Obviously if you leave your cue on the table directly next to mine, it is very unlikely that someone will take it without me noticing it. I would make every effort to keep anything from happening to it, but in the end it is your cue, and you had better things to do than watch over it during that time. I would feel terrible, and may offer any help I could, but would not feel obligated for full replacement value of said cue. It was too inconvenient for you to put it away, or take it with you, so you assume the risks with that decision.
I have in the past left the pool room in a hurry and left my cue fully assembled laying on the table. I was more than hlf way home when I suddenly realized this. I called the pool room in a panic and found that my cue had been put away safely behind the counter. It was my fault alone. I happen to get lucky.
I have also had a cue stolen right off a table when I went into the back room to check on some stock. It really sucks, but I had no one to blame but myself.
I have worked in many pool rooms, and have felt comfortable enough to leave my cues in pool rooms ( also ones in which I was not employed). I do not feel that the owner has a responsibility to take care of my cues or replace them if they go missing. In the event of a loss, I may ask the owner what he suggests to do about it, but would not demand it, or take action.
I think a fair solution in many cases would be for the owner to help chip in for the purchase of a new cue. For example if it was a predator, he could order you a new model of comparable value and agree to pay a portion of his wholesale cost for that cue ( with no retail markups). I think it would be a good compromise and you could get another cue for a good deal less than the full replacement costs out of pocket. Though it sounds like you are in good shape with a sponsor, so you are ahead of where a lot of players in a similar situation would be.
Just my take
JW
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I want to give my thanks to everyone who shared their opinions.
I think I'll make a compromise here and ask for some free table time. As mentioned earlier, my gear is being replaced by Mezz, so I'm not at a total loss. I'd hate to have poor repute at my favorite pool room, so the compromise seems like the best option (in my eyes).
Thanks again everyone.
I think I'll make a compromise here and ask for some free table time. As mentioned earlier, my gear is being replaced by Mezz, so I'm not at a total loss. I'd hate to have poor repute at my favorite pool room, so the compromise seems like the best option (in my eyes).
Thanks again everyone.
Bailments
If I remember my law course correctly, if you hand your things to a staff member who then puts it wherever, they have created a bailment situation and are liable for any losses that occur. However, if you put the cue wherever then there is no bailment created.
If I remember my law course correctly, if you hand your things to a staff member who then puts it wherever, they have created a bailment situation and are liable for any losses that occur. However, if you put the cue wherever then there is no bailment created.