Stop coming up on your final stroke - new pool gadget

[oldroller]

I Always

say stay down you DUMMY!!But it's too late by then!!

 

[Dan White]

Hi Bill. I think the gadgets and other techniques for keeping down on the shot are all things that treat the symptom, not the cause. You can take a decongestant to clear your sinus, but you might need antibiotics to cure the infection. I think the reason your problem hasn't been cured in all these years is that you keep taking a decongestant when you really need antibiotics.

I started making large improvements in my game when I changed my mindset from "How do I pocket that ball" to "How do I execute the perfect stroke?" The game, for me, is about controlling my body and stroke motions, hitting the cue ball with the exact amount of english needed consistently, seeing the shot angles correctly (not to mention shot strategy), having a consistent pre-shot routine.

You mentioned two bad habits - jumping up, and steering the cue ball. That tells me that you are paying too much attention to the results of your stroke and not enough to executing the stroke itself. YOU CANNOT CONTROL THE PATH OF THE CUE BALL ONCE YOU'VE HIT THE BALL. So don't even try. If you perform the stroke properly, the ball has to go in the pocket, so you shouldn't pay so much attention to what happens after you contact the cue ball.

Think of it this way...When you are in the process of shooting, what is going through your mind? Are you thinking "OK ball, GO IN!" or something more like "Nice smooth follow through."

Anyway, not to write a book here, but I feel strongly that I'm right about this (and it isn't my original idea of course). The other possibility is a physical one. If you pivot at the shoulder instead of at the elbow, and have a low stance, you might HAVE to stand up during the shot in order for your arm to follow through. This can particularly happen on shots you hit harder.

Hope something in this post helps!

 

[BillPorter]

Think of it this way...When you are in the process of shooting, what is going through your mind? Are you thinking "OK ball, GO IN!" or something more like "Nice smooth follow through."

Dan, an excellent post! Actually, when shooting, particularly at the game ball in a money game, what is going through my mind is not exactly, "OK ball, GO IN!," it's more like, "PLEASE, PLEASE GO IN!!!!" And since I probably just jumped on on the shot, I'm in position to apply plenty of "body English" to the shot as well!

Of course, you are correct in saying that focusing on the process of shooting will produce better results than focusing on the outcome. That's one reason I like Nick Varner's advice about watching the cue ball contact the object ball. If you focus on this, you generally stay down on the shot, at least until the cue ball hits the object ball. Your advice makes me think of one mental "trick" I have used when getting down on an important shot. I'll sometimes tell myself that while I can't control the path of the object ball directly, I can at least control my stroke and stance to a large degree and that I'll give the shot the best chance of going in if I stay down and follow through.

All the above having been said, I still think there could be a value in a small, relatively inexpensive device that would immediately give you feedback when you move your head during the final stroke.

 

[arsenius]

Someone on this board once posted a "gadget" to address this problem. They said they tied a piece of string around their neck, and looped it over their cue. It was long enough that they could stroke naturally, but if they stood up quickly it yanked them back down/yanked their cue into their face...something like that. I think they said it was so jarring that they learned quickly.

I don't think you could use it to play an actual game, you'd have to be careful getting into your stance. But it could be effective during practice.

 

[Neil]

.............

 

[BillPorter]

Someone on this board once posted a "gadget" to address this problem. They said they tied a piece of string around their neck, and looped it over their cue. It was long enough that they could stroke naturally, but if they stood up quickly it yanked them back down/yanked their cue into their face...something like that. I think they said it was so jarring that they learned quickly.

I don't think you could use it to play an actual game, you'd have to be careful getting into your stance. But it could be effective during practice.

Sounds interesting. As you say, this device, or just about any similar device, would likely be something one would use during practice rather than in a match. But there might be something that could even be used in a match if it were audible feedback into an ear plug or something like that.

 

[Snapshot9]

Heck

just shoot a short video using a photo cell phone. Any league team could do this. Have your league buddies watch and if you are sub-normal in your playing, have them video you without your knowing, and then show you how ridiculous you are playing ... LOL.

'Quirks' usually happen because of physical or emotional things bothering you, even subconsciously.

 

[Catahula]

Good post Bill...thanks

"Jumping up" has been the fatal flaw in many a player's game.

Thanks Bill for putting this out there for discussion. It is certainly the Achilles Heel in my game. And for all the knowing and all the having it pointed out to me I still find myself falling prey to it much to often. Usually when the nuts are on the line.
The best I have been able to do is to try and stay down until the balls have stopped running. It seems to work well for relatively short periods of time but nothing seems to cure it long term.
If you do come up with something (anything) that works I would be very interested in hearing about it.

 

[BillPorter]

Bill, seriously, I think that while there may be some use to gadgets initially, they only point out a problem. They do nothing to fix it. In your case, you already know you have the problem. I feel that the best gadget is the one between your ears.

Perhaps, although the "gadget" between my ears is about to rust out! Also, if a gadget or device helped you "program" yourself to stay down, that would be more like actually fixing the problem than just pointing it out.


You also never mentioned, or I missed it, just when you actually move your head up. If it is after contact, it doesn't matter. If it is before contact, it does.

Since my movement is causing me to miss the shot, I have to think that it is occuring before the cue tip strikes the cue ball.

 

[BillPorter]

just shoot a short video using a photo cell phone. Any league team could do this. Have your league buddies watch and if you are sub-normal in your playing, have them video you without your knowing, and then show you how ridiculous you are playing ... LOL.

Good idea, but I have never been in a league. I could just set up a video camera on a tripod and record myself shooting for a while. I have thought of this several times, but never done it. I guess that tells us that I am not all that strongly motivated to improve!

 

[BillPorter]

Thanks Bill for putting this out there for discussion. It is certainly the Achilles Heel in my game. And for all the knowing and all the having it pointed out to me I still find myself falling prey to it much to often. Usually when the nuts are on the line.
The best I have been able to do is to try and stay down until the balls have stopped running. It seems to work well for relatively short periods of time but nothing seems to cure it long term.
If you do come up with something (anything) that works I would be very interested in hearing about it.

You have had the same experience as me in this regard. You can improve for a while, but the habit creeps back, usually so subtlely that you don't even know you are doing it again. You just know you are missing shots, and as you say, the really CRITICAL shots. Of course we know that anxiety about missing the shot is the main reason for jumping up. If you are really completely calm and confident, you probably don't jump up at all. The reason I keep harping on some kind of feedback device is that for me, and I assume for others, you can be moving up on the final stroke and NOT KNOW IT! The rationale for the device is to provide a simple way for you to KNOW that you are sliding back into the bad habit. But as one or more have pointed out in this thread, maybe the best solution is simply to accept that this is something that will NEVER go away completely and is something you need to address as part of your daily practice sessions. For example, I play better in competition if, earlier in the day during solitary practice, I have devoted at least half an hour to focusing on staying down and following through - "simple" aspects of the game of pool that everyone knows they need to do.

 

[Neil]

...............

 

[BillPorter]

Not necessarily Bill. You also mentioned that you steer the cue. That means your alignment is off, and that alone can cause you to miss. I would suspect that more than the jumping up.

You may well be correct, but I seem to be conscious of those times when I "steer" the ball. Coincidentally, when I "steer" the ball, I always miss the shot to the left of the pocket!

 

[NINEBALLART]

This is my problem also. My friends tell me when I stay down I make everything...But as soon as I start moving I start missing...As soon as my team mates tell me I am jumping up I of course start looking at the OB last and then I stop moving...
I was also told that I only jump up on a tough shot or one I am not sure of..I was told I have not really made up my mind on the shot so I jump up...I found this to be true. Kim Davenport would stay down on the toughest of shots because he would tell himself how important the shot was and he would not move....
I bowled for 20 years and I used to put tape on my shoes on the toe....On the left it said, STAY and on the right it said DOWN. So you see I had the same problem staying down bowling..As I went up to bowl, you had to look down to find your spot for your feet and I would see that tape.....I broke that habit and bowled four 300 games and never averaged under 200 for over 15 straight years...
I have considered putting tape or writing in ink or somehow putting STAY DOWN on my left hand so I would see it when I got down and make my bridge...Haven't tried it yet but am seriously considering doing that...
I know what your going thru Bill and it is frustrating......

 

[Fatboy]

when i havent been playing for a while the "Jumps" or flipping my bridge open happens when I start to play again for a week or longer, when i'm instroke jumping dosent happen often, the first year I played I jumped terribley learned it real good-that was a huge set back-thats why i recommend instruction from guys like scott lee to all beginners it will save alot of time to get to where ever your going. Jumping up was the worst thing I learned to get good at when i started out, and it is still there unless i play everyday then it goes away.

 

[Dan White]

All the above having been said, I still think there could be a value in a small, relatively inexpensive device that would immediately give you feedback when you move your head during the final stroke.

I think it might be a difficult thing to engineer, trying to differentiate between very small head movements during a shot as compared to when you are getting down on the shot, or getting up for the next one.

One thing that does wonders for your game is a video camera. While you can't check after each shot, you can watch yourself for 10 or 15 minutes, then review the tape.

dwhite

 

[whitewolf]

What you are saying sounds correct to me. Many times I have thought that I had the problem beaten only to have it "seep" or creep back into my game. There was a time, a year or so back, when I was playing well and keeping still over my shots, so I thought I had the jumping up problem behind me. Then, while playing a sociable game of one-pocket, and missing shots I normally make (always a very frustrating situation), a railbird called me over to tell me that I was coming up on almost every shot!! I was completely unaware that I was doing it! As soon as I was clued in by the railbird, by game immediately went up about 2-3 balls and I started shooting much better and winning games. The whole idea of my original post was that it is probably possible with today's technology to create a device that would do what the railbird did for me - it would let you know right away when the problem started to creep back into your game. And as you pointed out, I may have to accept the fact that the problem will NEVER be behind me and that I will have to devote some practice time to keeping it under control every day or so. Thanks for the reply!

Bill, I used to have my teammates watch me and tell me when I moved my head. Sometimes they berated me so much I could hardly stand it.

Oh, BTW, there is a device I forgot to mention!!!!!!!!!!

My wife bought a flashlight that wraps around her forehead she wears when she walks down to the barn at night to play pool. I recommend wearing this while you shoot pool, and it is easy to see the light moving around if you move your head.

In golf, I used to wear a baseball cap to monitor any head movements. In pool, I recommend the same thing until you can get the light for the forehead (at sports shops).

 

[JoeW]

I think that one could connect a piece of string to a pair of glasses, place a loop in the string and hook the string to a shirt button. The length of string needed would be based on the ?normal? pre-shot routine stance. Every time you move your head the string would tug indicating that your head came up. Those who do not wear glasses could use some sort of safety glasses for training purposes. It might take a few adjustments to get the string length right. Perhaps something like a turnbuckle could be used for adjustments.

The second thing has more to do with eye movement and I do not know how to deal with this from a technology perspective. I did learn about one year ago that simply shifting your eyes leads to steering the cue stick. This is why it is so important, in my play book, to see the CB strike the OB.

It is easily accepted but rather phenomenal to see the amount of coordination between your eye and your hand. Look at some thing and you can immediately touch it. Try this, close one eye and gently place some pressure on the outside of the other eyeball. This will throw your perception off slightly. Now reach out with your unused hand to touch something in front of you and you will find that you are much less accurate when trying to touch something, though it is less than an arm?s length away.

Apparently, the hand follows the eye quite closely. I found that when playing pool if I looked towards the pocket on a left cut I would tend to move the cue stick on follow through. If you study the types of errors made they will mirror each other depending on the cut (left or right).

It is for this reason that I have come on my personal solution which is make sure I see the CB hit the OB and the OB move about 6 ? 10 inches before my eyes or anything else moves.

A habit that snooker players develop is to have the back hand come to rest on the chest at the end of the stroke. It appears to me that this is a good way to train the hand / arm to stay on line, regardless of what the head does. Unfortunately, this type of stance is uncomfortable for most pool players as we often need more speed and power on some shots. None-the-less it does seem that some type of training device could be constructed that would teach the hand arm to stay on line once the sight picture has been constructed. I have seen the "Stroke Trainer" that is sold commercially but this is not the type of thing I am thinking of. I am thinking more along the line of an arm swing that ends with some refernce point on the body.

With enough device and contraptions the student would definitely look like a nerd

 

[Curdog]

Bill, I have the same problem and have been working on it for the last few weeks. Even when I am staying totally still during my stroke, I still have an unconsious urge to raise slightly which often throws my aim off. No tricks here, but I've simply been practicing staying down in my finish position for at least two seconds following the completion of my stroke. Things seem to be improving significantly. Somebody previously said to pose for a picture during your finish. I think this is in fact the answer to your problem.
Good luck! By the way, I think this particular problem is the single most common problem amongst amateur players. You might get a lot of attempted jokes as an answer, but a large percentage of them have the same problem and no solution besides laughing at it.

 

[pooltchr]

A habit that snooker players develop is to have the back hand come to rest on the chest at the end of the stroke.
Joe, this is one critical point we teach in pool school. The Finish position (The "F" in SPF) is a specific point at the side of the chest or ribs where the grip hand ends up after every shot. With the proper pendilum stroke, finishing in the same spot every time helps control unwanted movement, and ensures a straight stroke.

Unfortunately, this type of stance is uncomfortable for most pool players as we often need more speed and power on some shots.
I use this method exclusively, and haven't had any problem with discomfort, or being able to get enough speed on any shot. I even use the same stroke on my break.

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Steve
Steve