‘From your mouth to god’s ear’!
Straight Pool High Run
- Thread starter leehayes
- Start date
Hey Bob I would rarely be able to correct you but Cranfields run was an exhibition when he ran 768. There was a newspaper article leading up to the day of his run letting the public know he was doing an exhibition. He has 2 runs over 700 and both people who racked the balls for each of the 700 plus runs are still living. So I wonder how many people it would have to have been to be considered to witness the entire runs. Willie told me he thought he ran over 700 and knew he broke the 600 mark 4-5 times but considered it practice because he didn't have an opponent.
Do you have a copy of the newspaper article? Do you have a copy of the follow-up article that reported the amazing result? Surely everyone would have known that it was a new "announced and witnesses exhibition" record that eclipsed Mosconi's record. They would have been pretty excited. I'm assuming it was after Mosconi's run. Do we even know the date or location?
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
Bob you’re exactly right, if this were an exhibition run there would have been newspaper articles about it.
I’ve always heard that Babe’s 768 which I think he probably did, was in practice.
In my mind Straight Pool is the hardest game, if your opponent strobe, you might never get to shoot.
That's not what I meant. That is a third- or fourth-hand account by Mr. Silvernail of what Kelly may or may not have said.
Is it possible that by "exhibition" Kelly may have meant that Cranfield put on a show for the eyeballers pretty much every night when he practiced straight pool? Was there any written description of the run published just after the event? Was there any published announcement of an exhibition prior to the event? Who was the referee? In which publication was the exhibition announced beforehand? This was one of the requirements of the BCA for an exhibition high run.
Whether someone approves of the requirements for the BCA's recognition of an exhibition run is another matter.
Whether someone thinks the BCA has any right or authority to be recognizing any record is another matter.
Personally I am pretty sure that Cranfield did run 768 balls. It probably happened at Holiday Bowl, but there is no written contemporaneous record that I know of. I am also certain that the run did not meet the criteria set by the BCA to recognize the run as an exhibition record.
And do you believe the part about two of Mosconi's shots not actually being pocketed? If that's true, Willie should never have gotten the record.
really the bottom line is Cranfield and nobody else cared about any type of records. If it were different then they would have got things documented by BCA. The only reson Willies got documented was because Brunswick pushed it. So what would it have taken to qualify for a run to be recognized by the BCA in 1969? how many people had to see it? What if 1 of the witnesses had to go to the bathroom during the 5 hour run, how many people would have to witness every ball pocketed?
It just so happens that Cranfield broke 700 twice and both people who racked the balls on both of the runs are still alive and can certainly sign anything and testify to the runs. In my opinion that should be enough to say these runs count,as to saying a BCA record really who cares? I do somewhat but as a historian and certainly a qualified player myself I recognize the 768.
As for Willie he told me he certainly believed he broke 600 4-5 times. but never kept exact count as he didnt have an opponet so he didnt feel any of the runs should count. Willie ran a 609 and quit and went to dinner with his wife and Charlie Ursitti. Willie in 1979 also ran a 586 with Charlie Ursitti and a couple others witnessed including Pete Margo 2 days before he played Minnesota fats on ABC Tv. So would anybody call Charlie a liar? I highly doubt it.
As for a referee for any high runs has there ever been a referee?
I think there may have been a referee for Appleton's 200 and out vs Bustamante.
That was a tournament and even then I dont remember a referree for that match the whole time. I was there in person.
It is the highest run in competition that I'm aware of and there was a guy racking the entire time. Not sure if that guy was also the referee but usually that's the case. I think that will stand for a long time as the highest run in competition. In fact it might be one of the toughest records in sports to beat.
Appletom ran 200 in a race to 200 but thats not the record or even close in competion. Many years ago back in the early 1960s they use to play Competion races to 1000,1200 and 1500 and there were several runs that broke 400.
Who, when, where and how many? No one every ran that many in any tournament WC challenge match I've ever heard of. Please give specifics. The highest recognized run was 182 by Procita until Appleton's 200.
Those large blocks were done in different rooms at different days of 125 point matches each day.
And apparently some of them did carry over runs in some cases and some of them were brand new 125-point matches the next day. In the matches Charlie Ursitti recorded, there is no run over 182.
That was 2009 I believe. He ran 100 and out twice I think in the group stages, ran 150 and out after that and then a 120 or something like that. Crazy standard.
I always find the distinction between 'practice' and 'exhibition' interesting. Not sure how one validates a run but the other doesn't.
Witnessed is witnessed, the pretenses hardly matter imo. Case in point is JS record. If my horrible memory serves, wasn't the first portion of the run done before opening hours of the room...? How is it classified as an exhibition if you can't go in and watch it...? Yes of course it was witnessed, and I have no dog in the validity fight. Just saying, it seems like we pick and choose what qualifies and what doesn't.
If what I've read in here about Babe's max run is indeed true, and it was witnessed, then imo he has the record. I couldn't care less about what the BCA has in their record books.
Witnessed is witnessed, the pretenses hardly matter imo. Case in point is JS record. If my horrible memory serves, wasn't the first portion of the run done before opening hours of the room...? How is it classified as an exhibition if you can't go in and watch it...? Yes of course it was witnessed, and I have no dog in the validity fight. Just saying, it seems like we pick and choose what qualifies and what doesn't.
If what I've read in here about Babe's max run is indeed true, and it was witnessed, then imo he has the record. I couldn't care less about what the BCA has in their record books.
I read a story about Lassiter running 98 and out when his opponent needed 1 ball to win for $5000 in 1947.
In today's money that's about $55,000
To me that's more impressive then 700 ball runs for fun.
In today's money that's about $55,000
To me that's more impressive then 700 ball runs for fun.
Yes, 2009 "World" event at Comet Billiards in New Jersey. Here's a thread about Ortmann's performance there: https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/ortmans-big-run-last-week.154499/#post-1989971