Stroke Analysis - Doug Quara

[bbb]

If he lines up off-center but then hits the ball in the center to get the return to the tip, he is swerving his stroke. That will have to be different for changes in speed and stroke length. If he has to jack up, it's even more complicated.

I think it easier to play without a swerve in your stroke.

bob
its interesting that you say this
so why did you not straighten out your stroke?
i recognize you did quite well the way you did it

 

[WobblyStroke]

If he lines up off-center but then hits the ball in the center to get the return to the tip, he is swerving his stroke. That will have to be different for changes in speed and stroke length. If he has to jack up, it's even more complicated.

I think it easier to play without a swerve in your stroke.

What we are talking about is that center looks a little off to the side for him. He adjusted by just aiming up to what looks a little to the other side so that he is actually lined up to center. Then he got very consistent results cueing through center ball with this adjustment. It is merely a perception thing, not a stroke thing.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... so why did you not straighten out your stroke? ....

After grooving my stroke for 12 years before I found out that it was crooked, it was impossible to break the bad habit. I spent most of my practice time for three months trying to work on it in 1981 but it didn't help much. Too many neural connections already made.

Which says that someone who has played forever with a crooked stroke may want to leave it alone. But if they've only played for a year, I think they really should work of getting their alignment and stroke correct.

 

[Bob Jewett]

What we are talking about is that center looks a little off to the side for him. He adjusted by just aiming up to what looks a little to the other side so that he is actually lined up to center. Then he got very consistent results cueing through center ball with this adjustment. It is merely a perception thing, not a stroke thing.

Does he line up in the correct place for all his shots? Does his stroke swerve?

 

[bbb]

After grooving my stroke for 12 years before I found out that it was crooked, it was impossible to break the bad habit. I spent most of my practice time for three months trying to work on it in 1981 but it didn't help much. Too many neural connections already made.

Which says that someone who has played forever with a crooked stroke may want to leave it alone. But if they've only played for a year, I think they really should work of getting their alignment and stroke correct.

thanks alot for the reply bob
makes sense

 

[Patrick Johnson]

What I'm saying is DQ has shown it is as easy given he returned the CB to his tip 10/10 times. Even if that is a likely over performance as 10./10 is really hard to do, that test, along with his jacked up pots show definitively that he can reliably find the center axis with his simple adjustment.

Why waste time tweaking when already so reliable?

Other than not actually improving how reliably he can hit center, any head position adjustment may affect how he perceives potting angles along with how he perceives center and actually throw him off more, not to mention the trickledown changes his setup may require to accomodate that new head position. I like a simple, "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach here. His method for hitting center is working at a very high clip. Let it keep doing that rather than mess with it.

I'll stick with finding and using the head alignment that shows me the true picture (my "vision center") - I'm pretty sure that's easiest to learn and will work most easily/consistently for all shots.

You do you; Doug can do Doug. My advice is for the general readership.

pj
chgo

 

[WobblyStroke]

Does he line up in the correct place for all his shots? Does his stroke swerve?

You can scroll up and read his update yourself. But basically when he lines up at actual center it looks a bit to the side. So rather than change anything with his eye setup, he simply lines up to what looks like a bit to the side (which is actually center) and by doing so got very reliable results hitting true center axis.

 

[WobblyStroke]

I'll stick with finding and using the head alignment that shows me the true picture (my "vision center") - I'm pretty sure that's easiest to learn and will work most easily/consistently for all shots.

You do you; Doug can do Doug. My advice is for the general readership.

pj
chgo

Fair enough. And I generally agree it is best to see things as they are. However, when I went through this myself I found that the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. It would be one thing if potting angles were affected, but just perceiving where the tip is striking the CB? Adjusting my tip placement on the ball was a quick and reliable adjustment and allowed me to keep everything else in my setup unchanged.

Altering head position could lead to a series of changes down the line in the setup and stroke. If one can get very reliable results by simply cueing up (what looks like) 2mm left of where they intend to hit, I think that is the easiest way to tackle such an issue with the least chance for things to go wrong. A new head position can literally lead to a new stroke depending on the nature of the departure from where it's at.

 

[dquarasr]

Does his stroke swerve?

Perceptive, Bob.

There's a very slight swerve, barely perceptible. Some shots worse than others. See vids below. I'll work on it.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The pic on the left shows your alignment at address. I like it.

The pic on the right shows you pulled your butt offline on the final backswing - maybe the cause of your swerve.

pj
chgo

 

[WobblyStroke]

Perceptive, Bob.

There's a very slight swerve, barely perceptible. Some shots worse than others. See vids below. I'll work on it.

ye that changes things lol. a perception error u leave tf alone. stroke errors are different bc as bob mentioned earlier, the compensation varies with speed and distance.

makes sense tho. cuz u had quite a swerve before when u were coming away in your backswing and then back across it going thru. guess ur perception adjusted to ur swerve somewhat. u said u got that under control earlier but i guess its not all the way dead yet.

 

[WobblyStroke]

The pic on the left shows your alignment at address. I like it.

The pic on the right shows you pulled your butt offline on the final backswing - maybe the cause of your swerve.

pj
chgo


View attachment 703408

ye this is much smaller than before but still his issue. this is what i addressed with hi. in original stroke analysis in the thread. it was massive. much more subtle now. but still a problem. and ye, i concur on yhe issue....backstroke

 

[dquarasr]

ye that changes things lol. a perception error u leave tf alone. stroke errors are different bc as bob mentioned earlier, the compensation varies with speed and distance.

makes sense tho. cuz u had quite a swerve before when u were coming away in your backswing and then back across it going thru. guess ur perception adjusted to ur swerve somewhat. u said u got that under control earlier but i guess its not all the way dead yet.

I thought I did have it under control. But the video doesn’t lie.

It’s better but not good yet.

 

[dquarasr]

The pic on the left shows your alignment at address. I like it.

The pic on the right shows you pulled your butt offline on the final backswing - maybe the cause of your swerve.

pj
chgo


View attachment 703408

Nice, Patrick. Doesn’t take much to have a significant impact…..

Are these both from the same video, different times, or are they from the two different videos?

 

[bbb]

Move your head a smidge….right? (is that correct pj?)

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Nice, Patrick. Doesn’t take much to have a significant impact…..

Are these both from the same video, different times, or are they from the two different videos?

They're a few seconds apart in the same shot - I'm not sure which video.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Move your head a smidge….right? (is that correct pj?)

If he tries moving his head, it should move the same direction he moved the tip (left?). It shouldn't take much movement.

The ideal is to have the "vision center" / rear elbow / forearm / grip hand all on the same vertical "shot plane" directly over the stick / shot line. The vision center is on the shot plane when "straight looks straight", usually with the stick somewhere between the eyes (depending on eye dominance) - looks like Doug's pretty close already.

pj
chgo

 

[dquarasr]

They're a few seconds apart in the same shot - I'm not sure which video.

pj
chgo

Thanks PJ.

I’m disheartened. I thought I had made significant progress. Maybe I have. I am pretty sure I’m shooting better. But to record myself and notice I’m still fighting the same demons……

Unseen by you all, and I can’t believe I’m typing this, are more than a dozen videos over the last hour which show me popping up right at cue impact with the CB. I F-ING KNOW BETTER!!!!!!

And I’m having a hard time understanding how my backstroke comes toward my body in spite of it feeling straight, which ends up causing a chicken wing elbow coming out. It’s not nearly as bad as it was three-four months ago but I am at a loss on how to fix it. I need a very good mechanics coach.

Here’s what I’m gonna do in the short term, tonight and tomorrow. My son is coming for a visit. I’m gonna leave the table alone. I might even stay away from azb and give everything a fresh look Sunday or Monday. Tonight I’m bummed so thinking about it any more will do more harm than good.

“See” you all in two days.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Thanks PJ

My pleasure, Doug. By the way, I also notice your elbow comes up on the backstroke - that could be how your grip hand goes offline.

From what I see and hear you might benefit from keeping more still, your head and elbow particularly.

pj
chgo

 

[FranCrimi]

Understood. Your assessment of my skill level is accurate. But I need to get to where I stop missing shots I should make, so often. It’s not that I expect to be perfect; no one is. It’s sometimes when I miss, I miss badly and too frequently. So exorcising those fairly major stroke flaws, to me, is a prerequisite to effectively learning how to play the game. I’m not working on my stroke in a vacuum. I’m playing 8, 9, and 14.1 leagues, one each, where I can practice strategy, critique the stupid decisions I often make, learn my limits and when to play defense vs going for the runout. Complemented by practicing stroke and fundamentals at home. Do you think that is a sound approach?

I am not trying to go on tour or become a road player. At 67, I just want to be a good hobbyist.

I'm going to say this one last time because I really do feel sorry for you.

You think you're not playing in a vacuum but you are. All this well intended advice here is getting you nowhere. You say that you play league matches and you practice at home. That formula isn't working for you. What's missing --- and this comes from experience --- is becoming a regular in your local pool room, hanging around watching players and playing other people every day, not just league nights. When you play other people on a daily basis and become part of the sub-culture of a pool room, your focus changes from internal to external. You need to get out of your own head. Be around other players. Watch them. Listen to them. Become a regular. Practice with them. Match up, even if just for the tab.

Continue to play your leagues, and spend more time in the pool room and less at home alone.

You don't believe that something like that would help your fundamentals improve without your practicing them, right? You'd be surprised.