Stroke Instructor Challenge
- Thread starter luckwouldhaveit
- Start date
And they all have good timing also.
What I find in this setup is that grip hand cannot move left or right, just back and forward, like on a fixed stroking plane.
There is no thinking – ‘am I moving in a straight line or not’, it just moves.
For me and everyone is different, one of the keys is the bridge hand if it is too much to the left, cue jumps off the path.
Same thing occurs when shoulder is cocked up, since a drop would completely alter the shooting plane.
However, if the bridge hand is sufficiently to the right and shoulder is on the line of shot it is an easy straight motion and the shoulder just drops and the cue continues on the same path.
The only problem I can see with this setup is that if you want to shoot from the elbow like snooker players often do then that would be very difficult to do.
There is no thinking – ‘am I moving in a straight line or not’, it just moves.
For me and everyone is different, one of the keys is the bridge hand if it is too much to the left, cue jumps off the path.
Same thing occurs when shoulder is cocked up, since a drop would completely alter the shooting plane.
However, if the bridge hand is sufficiently to the right and shoulder is on the line of shot it is an easy straight motion and the shoulder just drops and the cue continues on the same path.
The only problem I can see with this setup is that if you want to shoot from the elbow like snooker players often do then that would be very difficult to do.
Interesting observation.
What about these guys? Would you agree, that line 1 points away from the shot line?
John Higgins
Ronnie O'Sullivan
Ding Junhui
Shaun Murphy
I couldn't find a better picture, but he does it. You can watch him on saturday in the WSC.
This really is interesting. I've been lining up that way for years. I've tried to "correct" it at various times, but my old natural alignment has always crept back in. Occasionally, an observant student will point out that I don't align myself the same way I taught them to do, to which the only response I can think of is...........SHUT UP! :wink:
Roger
Roger
Wolven - I don't think I understand. I thought that your shoulder was outside the line of the shot, rather than above it (as I understand luckwouldhaveit is recommending). Have I missed something?
What is it about your alignment that means at a natural shoulder drop does not result in the cue deviating?
You also said in an earlier post that you were having some difficulty implementing the new technique consistently. What is it that goes wrong? The problem of the misalignment of the bridge hand might be solved by a change in foot position - have you tried that?
Why is this?
@Siz - I feel the muscle stroke is very effective with this alignment. Though I don't use the pendulum stroke, I'd think it work well for that too.
I don't consider elbow dropping to be an issue so long as the bicep is driving the stroke. I agree that dropping the elbow before contact is just adding unnecessary variables to the equation. That said, I also agree with Wolven just from my personal experience that the cue stays on track after dropping the elbow so I don't really pay much attention to it.
@Fran - My analysis comes from changing my own alignment. I based my approach on my own physiology rather than with a picture in mind of the alignment I'd like to achieve. Interestingly, what I ended up with looks pretty conventional compared to the pictures.
I do think this has helped me improve.
I've only taught some friends who don't play regularly so it's hard to say. I do have a very effective way to teach it, but I'll leave that to the stroke instructors.
@ThePoliteSniper
Higgins - Yes. My guess is line 1 is pointing between the left and middle red ball clusters.
Ronnie O - Yes.
Junhui - Can't tell.
Murphy - Yes (also in Philthepockets video link on page 1)
@Wolven - When I first switched, it felt completely different and I had to pretty much completely re-learn my stroke, but think it was worth it.
I don't consider elbow dropping to be an issue so long as the bicep is driving the stroke. I agree that dropping the elbow before contact is just adding unnecessary variables to the equation. That said, I also agree with Wolven just from my personal experience that the cue stays on track after dropping the elbow so I don't really pay much attention to it.
@Fran - My analysis comes from changing my own alignment. I based my approach on my own physiology rather than with a picture in mind of the alignment I'd like to achieve. Interestingly, what I ended up with looks pretty conventional compared to the pictures.
I do think this has helped me improve.
I've only taught some friends who don't play regularly so it's hard to say. I do have a very effective way to teach it, but I'll leave that to the stroke instructors.
@ThePoliteSniper
Higgins - Yes. My guess is line 1 is pointing between the left and middle red ball clusters.
Ronnie O - Yes.
Junhui - Can't tell.
Murphy - Yes (also in Philthepockets video link on page 1)
@Wolven - When I first switched, it felt completely different and I had to pretty much completely re-learn my stroke, but think it was worth it.
OK, thanks for the answers. There are obviously some variables involved like dominant eye, and feet placement, to name a few, that may or may not be contributing factors. There is also the question of whether or not it actually improves a player's game if that player switches from their present alignment. You could be right about the physiology, but it might not be that big of a deal. I see it strongly present in Bustamante but not in Mika. I watch him play fairly often in NYC and I always thought his arm was hanging straight down. Ginky too (among others). His arm was totally straight.
Something to keep an eye out for, though.
Interesting observation.
What about these guys? Would you agree, that line 1 points away from the shot line?
Ding Junhui.
IMO Ding shows one of the few divertions from what the OP is mentioning. If he is off angle in the way the OP mentions it looks like it is far less then the other players. Those other snooker players are very much showing the same trend as the pool players as far as these two angles. It is a very interesting observation and another thing that would be very useful to analyze on a video analysis during instruction.
I didn't click the provided link but let me guess, "just put it in the hole"?
I also used this information to find my natural alignment and stance. Top German instructors Ralph Eckert and Andreas Huber swear by this method as well as Thorsten Hohmann.
Does it have to do with the natural direction/position of the wrist and grip?
Check out the relationship between the lines in this pic..I had a hard time finding a better one. I'm not sure if you meant his stroking arm is perpendicular to the ground, but that's commonplace with this alignment.
Not in this picture here
Very good pic of his stroke setup pre-contact, clearly shows the angle talked about by the OP.
Also that - it all kind of lines up with this alignment. I found my alignment by finding the line 1/2 relationship and worked my grip around it and it ended up being pretty natural.
In my experience while in a classic snooker stance my stroke feels very controlled, not natural or free flowing whatsoever. In order for me to produce the alignment in a snooker stance I have to lock my wrist in an unnatural position in accordance with my shoulder and elbow. By no means am I trying to discredit the snooker stance and alignment, but for my game personally it's not the most natural and would take a lot of work to ingrain that particular method.
Not in this picture here
Very good pic of his stroke setup pre-contact, clearly shows the angle talked about by the OP.
I guess I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Both Mika and Ginky look straight to me. I've stood directly behind both on many occasions. I'm very certain about what I saw. Sorry, just my opinion.
I am not sure you understand the angle that the OP is talking about or how it is formed. I think it would be best to go back and read his explanation closer or you are simply debating something you don't actually see.