stroke mechanics

S

shawnNC

needs the 7
Silver Member
Keith,

I was looking at the pictures in the galleries on azbilliards.com, and notice that your stance/stroke is a little unconventional. The reason I bring this up is recently I was playing at my house, and happen to see myself in the mirror. I noticed my elbow is away from my body. While I feel I have a fairly accurate stroke, I still sometimes notice that I am putting unintentional side spin on the cue ball. I pulled my elbow in and hung my forearm at a perpendicular angle so everything was in line. I feel that perhaps shooting like this for a while would straighten everything up, but I am not sure that I want to fix something that may not be broke. I've been shooting adamently for about 1.5yrs now and though hate most handicapping systems, can gamble and hang with most apa 6-7s I know. Do you think I should try to get everything in line for better mechanics?

Shawn in Fayetteville, NC
 
Shawn, I used to know a couple of guys who had the same type of stroke as you. If you ever get a chance to see Mike Davis shoot, he has that kind of stroke. Taller guys have a tendency to have that kind of stroke. Smaller guys have a tendency to just lay on the table.

Your hand and wrist need to be as flexible as possible in order to execute a wider variety of shots. It seems like if your hand is on the inside, like you're talking about, there would be certain shots that I would have a hard time with.

If you have only been playing a year and a half, that is really not that much time. You're doing well to keep up with the 6's and 7's for only playing a year and a half. Keep working with strokes. Myself, if I was you, I would try to get my hand on the outside and see how it feels.

It is difficult to help you without seeing you. I'm sure if I saw you, I could maybe straighten you out a little bit. If it was unrepairable, then I could maybe give you some other clues.

That was a good question, and I appreciate your inquiry. I hope this will help you a little bit, but it's always better if you're there.
 
Keith,
I have some old film of the great Willie Hoppe. He is the only person I've seen with a stroke virtually identical to yours. Did you pattern yourself after him, or was this something you developed on your own (many children shoot this way since they are not tall enough to let the right arm hang in a perpendicular fashion)?
 
I hear alot of the time people say you should hold you"re cue this way or that way, I think if you play long enough any type of hold and stance can work. I was in a tournament about 3 years back and it was the final, I beat the guy and after the match as he was leaving i heard him tell someone "How did he win His feet were not even lined up correctly" The bottom line is IMO any style can be made to work, I dont think there is a right or wrong way to stand or hold the cue.
 
King Cueball said:
I hear alot of the time people say you should hold you"re cue this way or that way, I think if you play long enough any type of hold and stance can work. I was in a tournament about 3 years back and it was the final, I beat the guy and after the match as he was leaving i heard him tell someone "How did he win His feet were not even lined up correctly" The bottom line is IMO any style can be made to work, I dont think there is a right or wrong way to stand or hold the cue.
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Disagree strongly on this. There is a right way, or at least "righter" way. I am not saying this to insult you. I am sure you play better than me. And many good players, or great players for that matter, play unconventionally. The real questions are (1) What should the players without great talent do? And (2) would you, or others, be even better if they had learned more conventional mechanics at a young age?

Take a great talent with flawed technique, we'll use Lee Trevino in golf. Would he have been better if he had great instruction as a youngster? Maybe only marginally given how great he was. But could any other player in the world get away w/ what he did? No. So if you see someone on the driving range who has played 2 years swinging like trevino, get him lessons quick, becuase he won't ever play as well as he could. And might physically injure himself. :p
 
I was practicing at my local pool hall one day and this guy comes up to me and starts telling me to change my stance a little and the way I held my cue. He told me he is a Chiropractor that specializes in sports. I tried some of the stuff he taught me and found my game suffering a little. I asked a friend of mine that knows this guy and he told me the guy has been trying to play pool for years and can't play a lick. I stopped doing the stuff he taught me and went back to my old ways and am doing fine right now.
 
that is just my point! I dont think somone can tell you how to stand and it will make you a better player over night! I think you have to have you"re own style and play with it for years to become a good player
 
Regarding getting instruction from others, my opinion is you should totally ignore anything unless it comes from an A or Open class player. I feel the rest are not qualified to help with mechanics, and can even inadvertently damage the player's game with false information.
 
King Cueball said:
that is just my point! I dont think somone can tell you how to stand and it will make you a better player over night! I think you have to have you"re own style and play with it for years to become a good player
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Yup. The key is to find your stroke and stance that makes you shoot the straightest possible.
I've finally realized that with my body and stroke, I need to have my arm a little further out.
I shoot a ton of spot shots to find out if I'm lining up right.
 
I'm sorry but I disagree with that. Nick Varner, when he was playing his best, had a coach, Hal Nix teaching him. Hal was not a great player from what I understand. He was a very good coach though, at least Nick thought so.

Look at some of the other sports. There are coaches and trainers that are considered to be excellent at teaching but weren't necessarily that good at the sort they're teaching. Teaching or the ability to teach is very important and shouldn't be minimized in my opinion.


iusedtoberich said:
Regarding getting instruction from others, my opinion is you should totally ignore anything unless it comes from an A or Open class player. I feel the rest are not qualified to help with mechanics, and can even inadvertently damage the player's game with false information.
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At this game, you need to take advantage of everything good you can.

The mechanics are important, no doubt about it. My instructor noticed something the first time we banged balls around: My stance (in general) wasn't angled at 45 degrees. He corrected me at the time, but said nothing about if foit again months, when it became apparent to him that being pretty far off that line was throwing my shots off. I was englishing the ball when I didn't want to, and had one heck of a time making longer straight in shots. He caught me one day and fixed that angle thing. My game improved markedly. It was something small, but in my case it really made a difference. Without his help, I'd still be wondering what in the world was going on...


He also told me that the ideal is to have a straight stroke, be lined up properly, stroke the ball correctly and so on. He said that if these fundamentals are off, and not corrected, that a player will develop systems to compensate for all these things. And that if it goes on for a really long time that changing or improving in those areas can be very difficult. So, to save me a lot of extra work and headaches down the road, he "fixed" those problems.

I'm very grateful to him, and encourage anybody with problems they can't figure out to ask someone who plays well how to do so. Try it and see if it works. If it doesn't work for you, no problem. Just forget it.

There's so much to this game. I for one am ready to listen to what any pro has to say about any pool related problem. He may be right; he may be wrong. Give it a wiggle...
 
Flex said:
My instructor noticed something the first time we banged balls around: My stance (in general) wasn't angled at 45 degrees....
Click to expand...

Flex, how long have you been playing, and who is your instructor, if I may ask? :)

Keith
 
I've been seriously at this for a little over a year. Getting better, hopefully :D

My instructor's name is Thomas Park, lives in the Northern Virginia area.

He's helped me immensely, and has become a good friend.
 
Never heard of him- does he do any of the local tournies? How does he do in them?

-pigu
 
He used to be a house pro at Boston Billiards.

Does he do any local tournies? Sure does, and plays a lot at the Fast Eddies in Fairfax, on Lee Highway, also at the Shark Club, also on Lee Highway, not too far from Fast Eddies.

Recently he played Bustamante in a tournament (I forget which one) and the format was race to 7, best of three races. He won the first race, if memory serves, 7-1. He told me that Bustamante took revenge on him after that, and beat him. He showed me the super tough shot on the 9 ball that he potted and then scratched that did him in...

While he plays 9 ball and 8 ball, his favorite game is straight...

About a month ago he told me that he might play in the Midwest Expo, that he had been sponsored for it. Don't know if he's out there. Haven't seen him for a few weeks...

Drop in at Fast Eddies and ask for him. Very nice guy... has helped me a LOT.
 
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