Stroke Rhythm question please help?

W

will14.1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok so I've never posted here before but I have long been a fan of the site and found many of your comments useful and full of insight. I am grappling with a problem. It feels best for be to stroke without any, or a very slight, pause in my stroke, think Mika Immonen. I have been told by a very respected teacher, who was giving someone a lesson in the billiard at the time I was practicing that you have to pause in order to have a decent stroke. Still I have been told by others, who are less prestigious than the former, that whatever feels good is fine. Can you all please weigh in and help me sort this mess out? Any comments you have would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
will
 
For me, I feel that you have to have be in a rythmn before you strike the cue ball. When I pause, I seem to throw off my shot either accuracy or over/under stroke the ball. The real answer, I would think, is whatever you feel most comfortable with. Just like a hit being subjective, this is subjective. I am far from an expert, just my $.02.

E
 
While I'm no BCA instructor, I can echo the words I've read many times here and believe to be true.. a good stroke is the one that has the desired result and can be repeated consistently.

I've tried the pause, it seems logical and proper, and had I known about it when I first started playing I'd likely be a better player today. Problem is, once you've done something for decades, it's tough to retrain muscle memory. If you could suffer through a few months of trouble to force yourself to do the pause without thinking, then I believe you would be better off for having done so. There was a great analogy about putting pants on in a fire here in another thread that explained this much better than I could.
 
Different strokes for different folks. I pause in my stroke but I think having a consistent pre shoot routine and stroke is the key to becoming a good player
 
The BCA instructors teach the pause at the set, when the tip of the cue is at the cue ball. Set, Pause, Finish...and then stay down and watch the ball disappear. Allison Fisher teaches and promotes the pause at the rear of the backstroke, kind of in the English snooker tradition, just before the final forward stroke...and then stay down too of course. As someone else said, the goal is to be 100% repeatable, and for most of us mortals a pause is a good thing. It typically takes 21 days to change and create a new habit. A BCA Advanced or Master Instructor's guidance is worth every penny IMHO, unless you're one of the 'blessed' types. The best thing to do is get a lesson, or attend a pool school if there's one scheduled near you by someone great. It will save you a lot of time in the learning curve...Tom
 
I'm talking about the kind of pause that tpdtom mentioned with regards to set pause finish, not the allison fisher type pause, that doesn't work for me at all. Almost every pro seems to employ the set pause finsih method and everyone at the billiard I play at. Are there really many people out there who don't pause hardly at all anywhere in their stroke? Just judging by what I could see I thought I was in the significant minority?
~will
 
I would suggest a pause (in the forward positino). Not to get your rythm sorted out, that is what the practice strokes are for, but to give you a second to really focus on the contact point. Use the few seconds without distraction, without movement, to really "zoom in" on it.

Now, on the other hand, do you HAVE to do this? Nope, you'll figure out what you like on your own. Don't be affraid to try different things.
 
Still using my pre-shot mantra with continued success. I just start the shot with...
"Every Ball Safely Sinks Happily"
E = Eyes - Insure you visualize the entire shot and results to start.
B = Breathe - Take a focused breath. Surprising what a focused "inhale/exhale" will do for your nerves.
S = Setup - Take your stance and get down behind the ball. Do your aiming.
S = Stroke - for me it is back, pause, forward
H = Hold the finish. A big one for me especially in critical situations.
When I went to the pause it moved my game up a complete notch. During that pause is when I am moving my eye from the cue ball to the contact point on the object ball. That pause really seems to help me focus more.
Sounds like a lot but I'm not accused of slow play. It works me into a good ryhthm.
Works for me, but as it has been stated before "whatever works".
 
Watch some Buddy Hall tapes if you want to see a great stroke using a "pause". I changed my stroke with some difficulty studying Buddys style and my game really improved. Niels Fiejn has a similar style and it works for him all the way to the COC win.
 
will14.1 said:
I'm talking about the kind of pause that tpdtom mentioned with regards to set pause finish, not the allison fisher type pause, that doesn't work for me at all. Almost every pro seems to employ the set pause finsih method and everyone at the billiard I play at. Are there really many people out there who don't pause hardly at all anywhere in their stroke? Just judging by what I could see I thought I was in the significant minority?
~will
Click to expand...

The set-pause-finish routine involves two pauses, one with the tip at the cueball (the set) and another after the cue is pulled back (the pause).

This is not what "BCA instructors" teach. Rather this is what a subset of BCA instructors teach. BCA instructors may train at one of a number of master academies, and the "SPF family of BCA instructors" are--correct me if I'm wrong Randy G--those who trained at the Cuetech master academy and choose to use this paradigm. And I think much of this was influenced by Jerry Breiseth.

Does anybody know whether Fran Crimi, the director of the BCA instructor program directs students to pause at the backstroke?


I discuss my views on the pause in the second half of
"preshot routine part 2." here.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=FargoBilliards

My dirty little secret is that I've always had a pause at the end of my backstroke, and I'm having a tough time getting rid of it.

Actually, I've been told I have a good stroke for getting games ;-).
 
will...Here's why a one second pause, at the CB, before you begin your final backswing is not only functional, but necessary for MOST of us, to develop an accurate, repeatable stroke (there are exceptions to every rule). Three things happen when you stop your cue AFTER your warm up cycle. All three happen in your head, and at the same time. They are: 1) your mind consciously decides whether or not to strike the CB on the next swing (and if not, what to do next); 2) since you do your study decisions standing up...when your bridge hand hits the cloth, you're 95+% ready to go (and your hands and eyes are 'chomping at the bit')...you have to stop and let your brain "catch up" with your hands and eyes; and 3) your brain has a creative side and an action side (think side and do side)...you have to stop your cue to let your brain "switch" from 'think' to 'do'! This process, coupled with a consistent personal eye pattern, creates a smooth repeatable process, that ultimately becomes what I call "riding the bike with no hands"...a totally unconscious process. There are those players who are able to deliver an accurate stroke with no pause, but they are in the minority. If you look at Niels Fiejen, in his recent win at the Challenge of Champions event, he ran over everyone, and had a perfect set-pause-finish delivery on every stroke. Allen Hopkins even commented on it, but couldn't understand why he was doing it (go figure, since Hopkins has a completely unconventional stroke himself). Hope this helps... I agree with tpdtom, to have your stroke checked out by a qualified instructor.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

will14.1 said:
Ok so I've never posted here before but I have long been a fan of the site and found many of your comments useful and full of insight. I am grappling with a problem. It feels best for be to stroke without any, or a very slight, pause in my stroke, think Mika Immonen. I have been told by a very respected teacher, who was giving someone a lesson in the billiard at the time I was practicing that you have to pause in order to have a decent stroke. Still I have been told by others, who are less prestigious than the former, that whatever feels good is fine. Can you all please weigh in and help me sort this mess out? Any comments you have would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
will
Click to expand...
 
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Mike...Not exactly correct. Jerry does not pause at the backswing, and consequently does not teach that. He does advocate the pause at the CB as imperative (as do ALL of us). The two pauses you mention, as connectly with SPF, are not exactly accurate either. The pause at the CB is well defined, and necessary. A distinct longer pause at the end of the backswing is a matter of preference. The pause is there, regardless of how long it lasts. It can be defined, like Allison and Randyg (about 1 second), or it can be quite short like mine (about 1/10 of a second). The key is the smooth transition from the backswing to the forward accelerated delivery...not how long the pause at the backswing is.:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

mikepage said:
The set-pause-finish routine involves two pauses, one with the tip at the cueball (the set) and another after the cue is pulled back (the pause).

This is not what "BCA instructors" teach. Rather this is what a subset of BCA instructors teach. BCA instructors may train at one of a number of master academies, and the "SPF family of BCA instructors" are--correct me if I'm wrong Randy G--those who trained at the Cuetech master academy and choose to use this paradigm. And I think much of this was influenced by Jerry Breiseth.

Does anybody know whether Fran Crimi, the director of the BCA instructor program directs students to pause at the backstroke?


I discuss my views on the pause in the second half of
"preshot routine part 2." here.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=FargoBilliards

My dirty little secret is that I've always had a pause at the end of my backstroke, and I'm having a tough time getting rid of it.

Actually, I've been told I have a good stroke for getting games ;-).
Click to expand...
 
I live in Madison, Jerry is actually the instructor to which i was referring who told me to pause at the CB. Wish I could afford lessons from him.
 
will, I recently changed my stroke (1 year ago) and now I stop right at the cue ball before my final stroke. For me I use that time to make sure my mind is right. I have already planned everything out and know what is going to happen, and that my final chance to make sure I am seeing my ball go in. It has worked well for me.
 
Physically and mentally executing a shot requires a sequence of steps. Each of those steps have a specific purpose, and the better we accomplish them the more successful we will be.

The purpose of the pause immediately before the final forward stroke is to provide a smooth transition in the cue's direction, and to provide a well defined starting point for that final stroke. How long this pause should be is dependent factors unique to you.

How fast your back swing is will effect the length of the pause. For example, if you have a fast back swing, you will require a longer pause to ensure that you don't compromise your alignment during the transition. There are other factors that also effect the length of your pause.

Don't waste your time trying to emulate one of the pro's pause. Their pause is unique to them, and most likely will not accomplish it's purpose for you.
 
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I don't think the pause is as important as the "quiet eye".
Davenport does not pause but slows down his stroke to a crawl before striking the cueball.
 
How we use our eyes is very, very important, but any shot can be ruined by a single step in the shooting sequence that isn't performed properly.
 
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