Strong opinion: Dress Codes Needed

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
For the chump change they are playing for , who cares what they wear. Look at the poker players and they make 50 times as much. and look worse.
Dennis Orcollo:
2021: $57,400 (and counting)
2020: $84,500
2019: $35,500
2018: $72,200
2017: $302,800
2016: $107,900
2015: $85,000

Chump change...?

To be fair Dennis is an extreme example of pool player income, not definitely not indicative of what most earn. However he was the subject of focus early on in the thread. Zero excuses for him imo. Obviously just a personal perference.
 

jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Times do change. Used to be standard office wear was a suit, polished wingtips, and a fedora of some sort. Now you are more likely to see jeans and an unbuttoned, untucked flannel. Heck when was the last time you saw Zuckerberg in a suit?

When I was growing up, I had "church clothes and shoes". Those were only to be worn on Sundays or to weddings. Not because it made you holier, but as a sign of respect for the setting. Now grown men show up to church around here in short pants and flip flops.
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
T-shirt, shorts and open toe shoes (or the next best thing if it's cold) are my garb of choice when playing any kind of cue sport in any environment. But if a tournament I think I have a shot at has a dress code then I'll enter the tournament and adhere to the dress code. It's a no brainer. God only knows how a pro on TV or an amateur on a stream is going to cope with the pressure of being watched if they feel uncomortable wearing long pants/trousers and a collar.
 

jaime_lion

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dennis Orcollo:
2021: $57,400 (and counting)
2020: $84,500
2019: $35,500
2018: $72,200
2017: $302,800
2016: $107,900
2015: $85,000

Chump change...?

To be fair Dennis is an extreme example of pool player income, not definitely not indicative of what most earn. However he was the subject of focus early on in the thread. Zero excuses for him imo. Obviously just a personal perference.
A mediocre computer programmer can make that money.
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A mediocre computer programmer can make that money.
A mediocre anyone can study to become a computer programmer and make that kind of money. The same can't be said playing pool. It's far from chump change and it's enough in the most expensive cities in the world if you have half a brain and don't have show-off tastes. In the Philippines it's a heck of a lot of moolah.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
A mediocre computer programmer can make that money.
...and a hard working labourer wouldn't touch it. What's you point...?

Based on those numbers Dennis has averaged $106,000 annually. That places him in the top 9% of your nation's of earners.

From: https://www.inhersight.com/blog/salary/what-is-considered-a-good-salary
"According to the census, the national average household income in 2019 was $68,703. A living wage would fall below this number while an ideal wage would exceed this number."
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A
...and a hard working labourer wouldn't touch it. What's you point...?

Based on those numbers Dennis has averaged $106,000 annually. That places him in the top 9% of your nation's of earners.

From: https://www.inhersight.com/blog/salary/what-is-considered-a-good-salary
"According to the census, the national average household income in 2019 was $68,703. A living wage would fall below this number while an ideal wage would exceed this number."
Add the exhibition matches, the money games with random punters who are paying for experience, and the high stakes (staked by some rich fella) money matches and he is doing more than ok.
 

HNTFSH

Birds, Bass & Bottoms
Gold Member
Silver Member
100%. There's a reason scammers, politicians, salesmen, etc dress "well".
uuhhmmm...it's OK if you say "used car salesman" but do not lump the pro's of sales in with the sales bangers, politicians and scammers.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's a strawman arguement. Nobody here in favor of a dress code suggested anything remotely like a tux. TV or streaming is a visual media. Sloppy, ill-fitting or poorly maintained clothing looks even worse on screen than in person.

Would it really offend people if the players had on a clean pair of dark pants...even black non-faded jeans and black sneakers if it's that much of a burden to wear adult clothing...and a basic golf type shirt?

Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk
Tux is an example of dress code. They already use flashy vests even though the jacket isn't used. Dog show comes from the way most of mass professional competition goes. Anyway they should be fit and trim - like Marines maybe then they can wear jumpsuits for all I care. Oh, and I can't stand the preponderance of dark slacks. Makes bad video.
 

justnum

Principal Investigator of Magic Trick Shots
Silver Member
Tux is an example of dress code. They already use flashy vests even though the jacket isn't used. Dog show comes from the way most of mass professional competition goes. Anyway they should be fit and trim - like Marines maybe then they can wear jumpsuits for all I care. Oh, and I can't stand the preponderance of dark slacks. Makes bad video.

Pool needs a costume designer to save it. I know some people in NYC and LA, but they don't work for free.

Phil is the the expert.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Agreed, but one should not generalize, for there are more than a few players that take their self-presentation and image seriously. Unfortunately, as a group, those who show up to major events lack self-respect. No end of those who dress below the standards that should be required suggest that one cannot dress well AND play well, but snooker, the cuesport requiring the greatest cueing, proves that this is not the case. Others will say that they'll dress well when they are paid enough, not recognizing that their failure to present themselves tastefully lowers their chances of ever getting paid well unless an angel were to come along. By an angel, I mean one who will invest without a reasonable substantiation of future profitability.

Mke Zuglan, director of the Joss Tour, a regional tour that goes back about 25 years, rules with an iron hand when it comes to dress code, but few tournament organizers follow his lead. The Joss Tour is the longest running men's regional tour in America.
You shouldn't dress for the job you have, you should dress for the job you want. In this case, pro's should be dressing like they are playing for millions in prize funds in an attempt to attract said funds.
 

ThinSlice

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I have been saying this for years. If you want the sport of billiards to be taken seriously then players need to stop dressing like thugs and bums.


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Promoters and sponsors need to set the standard. If a "pro" represents my product at an event, the expectation would be slacks and a polo with my logo visible at all events I am paying him/her to participate in or they use my (free) equipment.

In terms of dressing the part, Ra Hanna comes to mind. The dude always shows up in a suit and tie. He takes his endeavor seriously and it shines a professional image on the events he's covering. If the guy behind the mic can and does do it, the people viewed on the screen can at minimum dress like a pro golfer.
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
Bill France ruled with an iron hand. He took a bunch of roughneck guys and genuine outlaws running moonshine for their primary income and made them marketable. Part of it was dressing the part. When you look at those forty race cars or so on Sunday, I'm not current but years ago they were backed with ten million dollars a year each in sponsorships. The sponsorship of even one of those cars could support an entire pool tour. They walked like a duck, talked like a duck, and dressed like ducks before the major dollars and factory interest came along. When I was seeking sponsorship I paid attention to dress and my mouth too!

While it would be silly to put on a tux to shoot pool and I don't think even snooker standards are necessary, it does seem like similar dress to golf or bowling would be reasonable in streamed and televised events. Clean and neat doesn't have to be restrictive and interfere with play. If I ever was involved in putting on a major event there would be a minor dress code in place. No whipped cream on a hotdog but no dressing down to look worse than the people fresh off of the street. Some players seem to make an effort to dress poorly.

Hu
I will take this a step further, during Bill Frances formative NASCAR years the sport had almost exclusive southern roots, southern drivers who not only didn't have any college education but the majority didn't even graduate high school if they even went to high school. But France saw the importance of looking and sounding professional, especially with national coverage supplied by TV cameras and mics. Many of the drivers attended schooling to help them with public speaking and classes to teach them how to sign an attractive autograph. Public perception can have a huge affect on sponsorship money. As for the people against a dress code I don't understand, a dress code will in no way hurt pool, it can only help, where is the problem in that??
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As for the people against a dress code I don't understand, a dress code will in no way hurt pool, it can only help, where is the problem in that??
I agree with you. As for the quote above, they are most likely sloppy and lazy with zero self respect.
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
A mediocre computer programmer can make that money.
Are you sure about that, I know computer programmers that would be overjoyed to make $100K+ a year. Everyone throws around all of these big income numbers yet very few actually earn that kind of income.
 
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