Strong opinion: Dress Codes Needed

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Back to pool; forget dress code, there should be a physique code. You know like other sports? Then maybe people would buy pool TV.
sabathia.jpg
fat-football.jpg
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etc....
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Folks tend to imitate or mimic the ones they look up to...ever see all the tough duded walking around with TapouT shirts on because that's what their favorite fighter wears during interviews? Or the corporate bankers who ride harley's in full leathers with their skull bandana pulled up over their face...because they think that's what dudes who ride hogs are supposed to wear.
...and honestly that's why I think it needs to start at the top. Right where the players don't have excuses.

This whole thing is just so odd to me. Back in my early twenties when I made it to my first Sunday of a large open tournament I was told I had to wear a shirt and tie. Not thinking I was going to make that deep, I didn't bother packing any. (I used to donate to large tournaments for the experience...lol) I scrambled and borrowed not only a tie but a shirt as well. To this day, having to dress that formal merely to be allowed to play on Sunday is a fond memory, not a negative one.
 

HNTFSH

Birds, Bass & Bottoms
Gold Member
Silver Member
Good points, all. And I know exactly what you mean with the look people give...like I should look like a greaser from the
50's in order to be serious about pool.

I just don't know if anything will change until the players themselves change. Seems as if tournament directors have a huge amount of responsibilities...now they are gonna have to police what a grown adult wears? I don't know if it will "trickle up" from the casuals to the pros.

Folks tend to imitate or mimic the ones they look up to...ever see all the tough duded walking around with TapouT shirts on because that's what their favorite fighter wears during interviews? Or the corporate bankers who ride harley's in full leathers with their skull bandana pulled up over their face...because they think that's what dudes who ride hogs are supposed to wear.
Or the corporate bankers who ride harley's in full leathers with their skull bandana pulled up over their face...because they think that's what dudes who ride hogs are supposed to wear.
😅 They all have switchblade combs.
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Unfortunately for the future of our sport, many agree with you. I think you have a point with regard to the imposition of a dress code by an event producer, but if players take it upon themselves to impose a dress code, the profile of the game can be raised.

As an example, the WPBA always had a fairly stringent dress code and a dress code committee run by the players themselves. Adding to that, the WPBA, a tour that's now 45 years old, always hired makeup artists to help prepare ladies that were about to appear in televised matches and you get a clear sense that the WPBA took the appearance of its players very seriously.
Well they have been barely surviving, if you can call it that, for what 8-10 plus years now? I wouldn't mind a mild one but it isnt going to help even a little. JMHO
 

DieselPete

Active member
Couple thoughts:

1) I don't know anyone, anywhere, that thinks tuxedos should be the standard, so bringing that up seems disingenuous to me.

2) I think the acceptable code should be somewhere between golf and bowling. Golfers have more modestly sized logos and fewer of them, but they make a lot more money so they don't need so many logos on their clothes to generate income. Bowlers make less money and their shirts are louder, more colorful, with logos across the chest and back. I think that the shirts that pool players wear for most televised tournaments are somewhat in between. Shane Van Boening's shirt in the match with Orcollo is perfect. And it is perfectly comfortable.

3) The average Joe, playing in a streamed event, could easily approximate Van Boening's look with a typical polo.

4) If someone refuses to play in a tournament that requires a basic polo, then I would say, "Don't show up." I would, perhaps, question their passion for the sport, but that's for them to figure out.

5) I don't think sponsors want to jump into a sport that they have to clean up. They want to get into a sport that already matches their image goals, is attractive to their target market, and so on.

6) One sponsor that I think is helping with this, that we can look at as an example, is Pechauer cues. They sponsor a lot of junior players and if you look at their team page you see a clean, simple image that is between golfer and bowler. https://pechauer.com/team-pechauer/
 

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The point of a strong dress code is to differentiate the professionals from the slobs in their 4AM gambling personas.
 

JusticeNJ

Four Points/Steel Joints
Silver Member
This reminds me of my time as a law clerk. I clerked in a historic court house, adorned with marble, frescos, and a Tiffany ceiling. The courthouse was built in the 1800s and certainly could not be built today in terms of both materials and cost. The freize above the entrance reads: "Precedent makes law; if you stand well, stand still." The building commanded your respect when you entered it. You understood important things we're going on inside. The hallways were always whisper quiet.

Across the street was the County Courthouse and Administration Building. It was filthy. The color of the exterior can best be described as a sort of dysentery green. Broken furniture was piled at the end of a hallway, covered in dust, when I first started years and years ago and is probably still there to this day, likely with more broken crap on top of it. Fights and shouting were frequent in the hallways. I'm sure you could get lice from the elevator. No one took the place, or anything that was going on in there, seriously.

Irving Crane ran 150 and out on Joe Balsis in 1966 wearing a jacket and tie. The ballroom was tremendous. It looked like something important was happening played by two professionals even if you couldn't tell the bumper from the tip.

I guess its chicken and the egg for pool. Should the dress code follow the money, or should the money follow the dress code? I don't know, but a better dresscode is a good thing, I think. I mean even some of the dingiest golf courses at least require a collared shirt.
 
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MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There’s sports people want to watch even though they don’t play that sport: Baseball, basketball, football, hockey, etc.

Then there are sports people only watch because they also play it: pool, darts, bowling, golf, etc. These sports are tough because their viewing market is limited. If you grow the people that play pool, you’ll grow the people that watch pool. Then you’ll have more invested sponsors, promoters, and advertisers. And those are the people that expect a dress code.

I don’t think anything is attracting the general audience to watch pool. Dress codes on a random FB stream isn’t going to move the needle one bit.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
There’s sports people want to watch even though they don’t play that sport: Baseball, basketball, football, hockey, etc.

Then there are sports people only watch because they also play it: pool, darts, bowling, golf, etc. These sports are tough because their viewing market is limited. If you grow the people that play pool, you’ll grow the people that watch pool. Then you’ll have more invested sponsors, promoters, and advertisers. And those are the people that expect a dress code.

I don’t think anything is attracting the general audience to watch pool. Dress codes on a random FB stream isn’t going to move the needle one bit.
No you're right 100%... However the biggest surge golf experienced in the modern era was Tiger Woods. Because of him the game blew up and whole new host of first time watchers became enthralled with his talent and aggressiveness. All eyes were glued to that man. Now imagine Tiger woods when he first strolled onto the 1st tee was wearing grey track pants, crocs with spikes on them, and a wife beater with KFC grease stains. Any sense of professionalism is non-existent. Would he still win...?..., yep. ..but do you honestly think he would become the sensation he did...? Personally I don't think so. His sponsors definitely wouldn't have touched him.

There will never be such a thing as a "Tiger Woods of pool". However with the way the world is getting their content these days. Pool has never been in a better opprotunity to expose itself to new veiwers that are begging for something to watch.

It's a pipe dream I know....🤷‍♂️ Just imagine if the top 100 fargo competing in the USA just for one year took a stab at being professional. Imagine the possibilities....lol. Some already do, and I shouldn't speak with such a wide brush, but as a whole I find it disappointing.
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No you're right 100%... However the biggest surge golf experienced in the modern era was Tiger Woods. Because of him the game blew up and whole new host of first time watchers became enthralled with his talent and aggressiveness. All eyes were glued to that man. Now imagine Tiger woods when he first strolled onto the 1st tee was wearing grey track pants, crocs with spikes on them, and a wife beater with KFC grease stains. Any sense of professionalism is non-existent. Would he still win...?..., yep. ..but do you honestly think he would become the sensation he did...? Personally I don't think so. His sponsors definitely wouldn't have touched him.

There will never be such a thing as a "Tiger Woods of pool". However with the way the world is getting their content these days. Pool has never been in a better opprotunity to expose itself to new veiwers that are begging for something to watch.

It's a pipe dream I know....🤷‍♂️ Just imagine if the top 100 fargo competing in the USA just for one year took a stab at being professional. Imagine the possibilities....lol. Some already do, and I shouldn't speak with such a wide brush, but as a whole I find it disappointing.

I just think it’s kind of a “if a tree falls in the woods” situation. I don’t think general viewers are begging to watch anything. I think media is oversaturated. I think we are in an environment where everything is trending away from mainstream and toward niche.

I don’t think a decade of suits would have changed how many people watched Orcollo and SVB. The only thing that would is more people playing pool. That’s the egg that the first chicken hatches from. Who lays that first egg? Matchroom does. And they seem to have dress code standards.

So I don’t think we need to worry about what people wear on a FB stream from RackemTV, Billiardnet.tv, Griffs, UpstateAl, etc.
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
I don’t think anything is attracting the general audience to watch pool. Dress codes on a random FB stream isn’t going to move the needle one bit.
I think that attracting sponsors is a worthy goal. I also think that it would be easier to attract sponsors from outside the pool world if the players weren't dressed poorly.

Again, what exactly is the hold up from wearing a polo shirt and a decent pair of pants? Exactly how uncomfortable can those be? I guess pajamas might be more comfortable, but a polo and decent pants doesn't seem to be terribly restrictive to me.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Bill France ruled with an iron hand. He took a bunch of roughneck guys and genuine outlaws running moonshine for their primary income and made them marketable. Part of it was dressing the part. When you look at those forty race cars or so on Sunday, I'm not current but years ago they were backed with ten million dollars a year each in sponsorships. The sponsorship of even one of those cars could support an entire pool tour. They walked like a duck, talked like a duck, and dressed like ducks before the major dollars and factory interest came along. When I was seeking sponsorship I paid attention to dress and my mouth too!

While it would be silly to put on a tux to shoot pool and I don't think even snooker standards are necessary, it does seem like similar dress to golf or bowling would be reasonable in streamed and televised events. Clean and neat doesn't have to be restrictive and interfere with play. If I ever was involved in putting on a major event there would be a minor dress code in place. No whipped cream on a hotdog but no dressing down to look worse than the people fresh off of the street. Some players seem to make an effort to dress poorly.

Hu
 

book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For the chump change they are playing for , who cares what they wear. Look at the poker players and they make 50 times as much. and look worse.
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I consider this topic and many things come to mind
but one sticks out

dress for the job you want, sure- but it goes both ways-
is pool a desirable job beyond playing the great game all day?
pool is disorganized to start. that needs to be addressed.
dressing well might class up the place
but it can't be an emblem for something that doesn't yet exist
respect is a two-way street
if kids are to aspire to be pool players, pros should be paid better
I'm sure this is a separate, but related conversation
but pool as a game has been around long enough
it's value as a physical and mental exercise is clear
there are standards for infrastructure, a pool economy
tv and live production, etc. etc., and all over the world
it seems like good business could be done around pool
matchroom appears to be going for it..I hope they succeed
if they do, it will probably be good for pool as a whole

do what pool players do/wear affect pool overall? of course-
but a lack of a dress code is representative of a much bigger issue

otherwise, forget the stuffy tuxedos..let the players be athletes
the jerseys are comfortable, pop on tv, and carry sponsors logos well
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I consider this topic and many things come to mind
but one sticks out

dress for the job you want, sure- but it goes both ways-
is pool a desirable job beyond playing the great game all day?
pool is disorganized to start. that needs to be addressed.
dressing well might class up the place
but it can't be an emblem for something that doesn't yet exist
respect is a two-way street
if kids are to aspire to be pool players, pros should be paid better
I'm sure this is a separate, but related conversation
but pool as a game has been around long enough
it's value as a physical and mental exercise is clear
there are standards for infrastructure, a pool economy
tv and live production, etc. etc., and all over the world
it seems like good business could be done around pool
matchroom appears to be going for it..I hope they succeed
if they do, it will probably be good for pool as a whole

do what pool players do/wear affect pool overall? of course-
but a lack of a dress code is representative of a much bigger issue

otherwise, forget the stuffy tuxedos..let the players be athletes
the jerseys are comfortable, pop on tv, and carry sponsors logos well
Punctuation is not your strong suit. If you're going to post a novel on here at least make it readable. I skipped over it as usual.
 

bbhistorian

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If the object is to attract more players and/or clean up the image than I believe it absolutely does matter, because the youth contingent IS watching streams, almost exclusively on anything and everything, and their parental figures (most especially mothers) are not likely to encourage interest or participation if they think the end goal resembles a hobo. "Mom, look! This is so cool, I want to learn! Can we?" "Ummm... no, I don't think they do that around here, turn that off."

Also as I read this thread again and again I thought, maybe these men have no women in their lives :ROFLMAO:. I say this in defense of sloppily dressed players, some guys just really don't know where to start. Especially the type attracted to this obsession. I'm not picking on anyone, they simply don't have the skills. Where to go, what to look for, shopping in general, traditionally not a guy thing, really not a pool guy thing. A dress code for some would probably be really helpful.

I used obsession purposefully, I'd be willing to bet, given the choice between shopping for new clothes/shoes and playing, and by that I mean, the actual time taken to go to the store, 2% might shop vs. play/practice/gamble/sitting in the pool room barking/railbirding/doing nothing. Given the choice between shopping and NOT competing/gambling, by which I mean going to the store to accommodate an imposed dress code situation, 2% might NOT shop.
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
50 years ago is was very important for people to dress nicely to be accepted. not so much nowadays.
we dont judge a person by how they dress anymore. or at least shouldn't.

trying to make all the players dress the way you think they should dress isnt going to make the game grow at all.
all that is , is trying to make a simple answer to a complicated problem. bringing back pool is complicated and has nothing to do with how anyone dresses.

it is up to the tournament director to set the dress code. thats how it works.
 

logical

apart of their 'semi public'
Silver Member
To me, this seems as silly as banning cues with points or inlays and forcing players to use plain maple only. Does it really matter if someone prefers to play in something comfortable instead of a tuxedo?
At the end of the day, I think it comes down to this, if tournament organizers want less players entering their events, institute a dress code.


Yeah it's vanity. Pro sports is a comedy of errors and pool is way not an exception. Guys in tuxes putting on a dog show is not my idea of entertainment.



That's a strawman arguement. Nobody here in favor of a dress code suggested anything remotely like a tux. TV or streaming is a visual media. Sloppy, ill-fitting or poorly maintained clothing looks even worse on screen than in person.

Would it really offend people if the players had on a clean pair of dark pants...even black non-faded jeans and black sneakers if it's that much of a burden to wear adult clothing...and a basic golf type shirt?

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