Strong opinion: Dress Codes Needed

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The thread title reminded me of a story Tom Ferry told about playing in a strip club and the naked woman stepped off the bar onto the pool table and Tom told her if he moved any of the balls on the table she owed him $50.

I suppose the dress code depends upon the venue.
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
Back to pool; forget dress code, there should be a physique code. You know like other sports? Then maybe people would buy pool TV.
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Yeah, this is exactly why I watch professional sports, because of their "physique". Think there are some "hip track suits" available for them too??
 

jaime_lion

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A mediocre anyone can study to become a computer programmer and make that kind of money. The same can't be said playing pool. It's far from chump change and it's enough in the most expensive cities in the world if you have half a brain and don't have show-off tastes. In the Philippines it's a heck of a lot of moolah.
I am getting at the fact that pool should be paying more. The best programmer in the world would make way more money. and the best pool player does not.
 

jaime_lion

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Are you sure about that, I know computer programmers that would be overjoyed to make $100K+ a year. Everyone throws around all of these big income numbers yet very few actually earn that kind of income.
It is what I have seen and heard. Maybe I am out of date on my numbers but I have seen it.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
It is what I have seen and heard. Maybe I am out of date on my numbers but I have seen it.
The power of google...:

First hit:
"Computer Programmers made a median salary of $86,550 in 2019. The best-paid 25 percent made $112,120 that year, while the lowest-paid 25 percent made $65,760"

Mediocre:
adjective
  1. of only moderate quality; not very good.
 

9andout

Gunnin' for a 2 pack!!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Feel free to flame me.

Tournaments and challenge matches that are being streamed need dress codes. The players, or the men anyway, are too often incapable of dressing in a way that elevates the sport above the level of bar league riff raff.

Baseball hats, hats on backward, garbage t-shirts from Molly Hatchet concerts, tank tops with armpit hair hanging out, joggers or bad jeans. I mean, seriously, all the hype that went into the Shane Van Boening v. Dennis Orcollo match and only one of them can at least look like a professional bowler, while the other looks like a goofball kid with a hat on sideways, in joggers and an ill-fitting, untucked shirt.

Black pants. Shirts with collars. Is it really that hard to have even modest expectations for presenting ourselves as athletes?
I remember seeing Dennis and thinking: "Does he think he's 15?" 🙃
 

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There’s sports people want to watch even though they don’t play that sport: Baseball, basketball, football, hockey, etc.

Then there are sports people only watch because they also play it: pool, darts, bowling, golf, etc. These sports are tough because their viewing market is limited. If you grow the people that play pool, you’ll grow the people that watch pool. Then you’ll have more invested sponsors, promoters, and advertisers. And those are the people that expect a dress code.

I don’t think anything is attracting the general audience to watch pool. Dress codes on a random FB stream isn’t going to move the needle one bit.

I think the fact that you see middle-aged, and older, women sitting in the Crucible watching a game they have never played counters your argument. Can you see people like this paying money to watch a pool match between 2 guys in beach shorts, wife-beaters, and flip flops arguing about racking at the start of each game?
 

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Are you sure about that, I know computer programmers that would be overjoyed to make $100K+ a year. Everyone throws around all of these big income numbers yet very few actually earn that kind of income.

Both of my 30 something daughters make way more than that in tech jobs that don't even require programming.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Back in the eighties I had a successful business that took up pretty much all of my time so I just didn't have time to compete. I decided to sponsor someone. Four payments of $2500 a season, maybe half again that much more if some major expenses cropped up. Not a major sponsor even then but a lot of people with no sponsor would be damned glad to see ten-thousand dollars a season.

The very first thing I looked for was presentation. That didn't mean for just a few hours when competing either. Just like I behaved when I was chasing a sponsor, I wanted a person that was professional 24/7. That is the way it is when you represent someone else. Sponsorship is a marketing tool. I didn't look at people and expect them to clean up and become professional in looks and behavior after I sponsored them. If they didn't look and act like someone I wanted representing my business right now I wasn't going to sponsor them!

Anytime you are seeking a sponsor you are on stage anytime you aren't home behind a locked door and even then you can't do something that attracts major attention. Pool isn't starting out on a fair and level playing field with the public. We have to dig the sport out of a hole as the public sees us. That means minding our P's and Q's in all respects.

Today what you said on public media fifteen years ago as a child can ruin your career. Wearing what you see as a funny t-shirt someone else might see as creating a hostile environment, racist, sexist, lord knows what. Most know that the same people that are "offended" often do far worse themselves but the person caught is the odd person out. All pool players hoping to play as a pro need to remember that is short for professional. You got to walk it, talk it, and you have to do it twenty-four seven. Having done it for years I can tell it to the world it ain't much fun trying to maintain a spotless image when you are young and full of beans!

Even if you don't have and are not seeking a sponsor you still represent pool if you are a professional. Representing anyone even if only yourself has never been harder in my lifetime.

Hu
 

CaleAYS

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dennis Orcollo:
2021: $57,400 (and counting)
2020: $84,500
2019: $35,500
2018: $72,200
2017: $302,800
2016: $107,900
2015: $85,000

Chump change...?
A lot of those numbers are basically what he’s winning in one session of action some places.
Tournaments should obviously have some sort of dress code. I’m personally ok with the more “athletic” look, black joggers and sneakers with a collared polo like a few players have been doing lately that doesn’t look bad. I don’t think the slacks, button down and dress shoes look fits too much with the younger players of today.
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think the fact that you see middle-aged, and older, women sitting in the Crucible watching a game they have never played counters your argument. Can you see people like this paying money to watch a pool match between 2 guys in beach shorts, wife-beaters, and flip flops arguing about racking at the start of each game?
Comparing a televised championship to a livestream action match is a bit apples to oranges. It’s funny how we have to drag our analogies out to extremes to make our points. When was the last time you saw 2 guys in beach shorts, wife-beaters and flip flops arguing about a rack? Was that the World Pool Championship? Or was that more like someone streamed the Andy Mercer Classic on Facebook?
 

justnum

Principal Investigator of Magic Trick Shots
Silver Member
Comparing a televised championship to a livestream action match is a bit apples to oranges. It’s funny how we have to drag our analogies out to extremes to make our points. When was the last time you saw 2 guys in beach shorts, wife-beaters and flip flops arguing about a rack? Was that the World Pool Championship? Or was that more like someone streamed the Andy Mercer Classic on Facebook?
In business terms, that is called oversaturation of the market.

There is too much low quality pool content, and not enough carefully planned productions of pool events.

If they can afford the equipment, they can afford training for how to produce high quality pool content in 30 minutes.
 

Cuedup

Active member
Watching every shot in pool is boring as pro's drain shot after shot.

Like NASCAR , people want to see the wrecks.
Like golf, people want to see the bunker shots, shots over hazards and shots out of the wood.

IMO, a pool production with quality announcers and coverage shifting between tense moments in various matches would be an improvement.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Watching every shot in pool is boring as pro's drain shot after shot.

Like NASCAR , people want to see the wrecks.
Like golf, people want to see the bunker shots, shots over hazards and shots out of the wood.

IMO, a pool production with quality announcers and coverage shifting between tense moments in various matches would be an improvement.
Watching the pro's play isn't about ball pocketing. It's about cue ball control and pattern play.

Ignorant fans watching NASCAR want to see wrecks.

Golf fans watch to see long drives and low scores.
 

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The very first thing I looked for was presentation. That didn't mean for just a few hours when competing either. Just like I behaved when I was chasing a sponsor, I wanted a person that was professional 24/7. That is the way it is when you represent someone else. Sponsorship is a marketing tool. I didn't look at people and expect them to clean up and become professional in looks and behavior after I sponsored them. If they didn't look and act like someone I wanted representing my business right now I wasn't going to sponsor them!
To me, this is the key.

No one would ever call Mitch "driven by fashion" but I do strive to be presentable anytime I am outside of my house. I consider presentable to be Business Casual. I had the "plant manager" tell me that IBM was coming tomorrow and that I should wear a suit. I did wear a suit (and a suitable one, too) however, he forgot to mention that I should wear dress shoes so I wore my std tennis shoes (cheap $10 Velcro black shoes available in the mid 1980s). Last year at a reunion, he retold the story with a smile on his face......as if in salute.

But come on--if you can't dress at least up to Business Casual you don't belong on TV {by whatever means it is delivered...} In my opinion, Dennis was out of line in his costume at the beginning of this thread.

And then there is attitude {and I did grow up in the era when McEnroe tore apart the class of professional tennis} Accept your wins and losses like a man (hint: not like Earl, but like Efren) do no sharking around the table, be a gentleman in all respects:: to your opponent, your referee, and to your audience ! The Audience deserves better than it is getting--and this "lack of class" does nothing to promote pool in general nor professional pool in particular.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
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Yeah, this is exactly why I watch professional sports, because of their "physique". Think there are some "hip track suits" available for them too??
These look shopped but regardless, it's not about what the individual wants or three figments of our dystopian future. It's about what the masses tune into. T&A has been that for as long as tv at least. FWIW I don't watch any of those three sports. Football is like "hurry up and fall over each other". Golf reminds me pool is a magnitude more interesting and Baseball is just plain boring.
Sports I find entertaining include wheeled sports with lots of hot dogging - bicycles/skateboards, motor sports - car racing etc... Even American Ninja and Battlebots have more entertainment value than some phony dress code.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The thread title reminded me of a story Tom Ferry told about playing in a strip club and the naked woman stepped off the bar onto the pool table and Tom told her if he moved any of the balls on the table she owed him $50.

I suppose the dress code depends upon the venue.
Or the activity - signaling to be specific but srsly, kids do higher learning in duds. Duds is the future.
 

Cuedup

Active member
Watching the pro's play isn't about ball pocketing. It's about cue ball control and pattern play.

Ignorant fans watching NASCAR want to see wrecks.

Golf fans watch to see long drives and low scores.
A fan is a fan, which cue sports has few of here in the US.

Extremely few people want to watch a race to 100. I'll grant you that there are some that are interested but even the ones that I know just check in on those matches to see how they're going. No one watches them. You need people watching that don't know what "pattern play" is if you want viewers, sponsorship and big money.

Cue sports in the US can keep doing what its doing and it'll continue to die a slow death.
 
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