Stun
- Thread starter Tim-n-NM
- Start date
Tim-n-NM said:
I really didn't know exactly, so I went to Google and typed in STUN SHOT BILLIARDS.
The first website it returned:
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Pool-Billiards-2283/teaching-aids.htm
had an excellent description of Stun and Stop shots (and the differences.)
Thanks for starting this thread. It made me do some research and learn a lot about something I only knew a little about.
Tim-n-NM said:
A stun shot is any shot where the cue ball has no forward or reverse rotation (follow or draw) when it hits the object ball - i.e., it's sliding.
When a "stunned" CB hits an object ball, one of two things happens:
1. If the CB hits the OB straight on it stops dead. This is a stop shot.
2. If the CB hits the OB at an angle it caroms straight along the "tangent line" without curving off it (as it would do with follow or draw).
To hit a stun/stop shot, you have to hit the CB hard enough and/or enough below center to overcome cloth friction so the CB won't be rolling (with forward rotation) when it reaches the OB. Which combination of speed/draw you use will vary with cloth/ball condition and distance of the shot. Like everything else in pool, you have to practice until you get the feel of it.
pj
chgo
Dito: Couldn't explained it any better myself. Perfect definitionPatrick Johnson said:
The stun shot is one of the most important shots in pool because it produces a consistent and predictable angle off of any cut shot (90 degree tangent line) and it is the foundation of all position play based on tip placement along the vertical axis of the cue ball. All those other angles become equally predictable with practice and the appropriate drills. This can lead to more consistent position play and and shot making due to the elimination of unnecessary side spin and the elements of throw and swerve that go along with side spin use. This is one school of thought regarding position play. The one I obviously agree with. Learning the use of stun and the vertical axis was a major step in elevating the quality of my game years ago.
stun shot = "stop shot at an angle"
Here's an article with lots of good illustrations for the 90-degree rule, which applies for a "stun shot:"
Also, see HSV 3.1 and Diagram 5 here:
Regards,
Dave
See "stun shot" here:Tim-n-NM said:
Here's an article with lots of good illustrations for the 90-degree rule, which applies for a "stun shot:"
Also, see HSV 3.1 and Diagram 5 here:
Regards,
Dave
Patrick:Patrick Johnson said:
*Excellent* description! One thing I want to add to this information that may be overlooked, is that on some barboxes that use an overweight cue-ball (e.g. Aramith Red Dot [not to be confused with Aramith Red Circle, which is a standard cue-ball]), the overweight cue-ball adds an extra dimension to the physics.
In scenario #1 that Patrick describes (i.e. if the cue-ball is sliding upon impact with the object ball), because the cue-ball is heavier than that object ball, not all of its energy is absorbed by the object ball. Thus, the cue-ball continues sliding for a bit, before it stops. This is basic physics; a moving heavy object hitting a stationary lighter object results in a partial energy transfer -- thus leaving some energy with the original moving object. A pure stop-shot, where the cue-ball immediately stops *at the moment of impact* with the object ball, is next to impossible on barboxes that use heavy cue-balls. Rather, you can have a "pseudo" stop shot, where either the cue-ball moves into the space that was previously occupied by the object ball and then stops (this would be in the case of a pure slide), or rolls/draws back slightly into the place where it would've stopped if it had the same mass as the object ball (this would be in the case of very slight draw applied). If the cue-ball is very close to the object ball and the shot is hit lightly, sure, the nap of the cloth might interfere with the continued slide of the cue-ball, and make it "appear" a pure stop-shot resulted, but that's a different issue -- a third ingredient, the nap of the cloth, interfered.
In scenario #2, again on barboxes with an overweight cue-ball, if the cue-ball is sliding upon impact, an unusal tangent line is taken -- that which is closer to the direction the cue-ball was originally traveling rather than a pure 90-degree angle off the contact point with the object ball. That is, this angle is more than 90-degrees, and something closer to 100 or 110 degrees (depending on how much heavier the cue-ball is over the object balls). That is the effect of a moving heavier object "smashing through" a lighter stationary object.
In scenario #2, depending on the condition of the cloth, you may even see a little bit of "fish-hook" action if there's a bit of draw applied -- the cue-ball "smashes through" the object ball, travels an inch or so, and only then the draw takes effect, resulting in a pronounced "J" fish-hooking of that cue-ball. This gives rise to the opportunity for shots that are not possible on tables that use standard-weighted cue-balls -- e.g. after impact, have that cue-ball hook behind and around an intervening object ball that would normally be in the path of the carom angle (which, with a "normal" cue-ball, you'd expect a carom/billiard with that intervening object ball).
All of these, and more, are described in R. Givens great work, The 8-Ball Bible. I'm not personally associated with this work, but I thought I'd plug it nonetheless, because it's an eye-opening insight into the differences of physics on certain barboxes.
Hope this is helpful!
-Sean
Drew said:
Why would you want to discourage such questions? Don't you want AZB to be a place where people of all levels can learn?
pj
chgo
One drill to help practice stun shots is to use a stripe ball as the cue ball and place it such that the stripe is horizontal and facing you. The key is to stroke the ball such that the stripe stays horizontal on its way to the object ball. The stipe ball is actually sliding, not rolling. This is a very important concept, rolling v sliding.
Once your done with the drill.........be sure to clean off the stripe
Once your done with the drill.........be sure to clean off the stripe
Stun shots are very underrated to me. I would fear a player more who shoots stun shots and gets good position. After learning to play accurate stun shots I was able to run more racks. Stun shots are equally important to draw and follow in one's arsenal IMO. It definitely deserves a thread here.
more please!
Quite.
And also there may be a number of guys out there who have been playing some time but still might be interested in some of the finer points that a thread like this can generate - eg how (and why) to play the stun run-through, or whether to change the grip when playing a stun shot etc
Patrick Johnson said:
Quite.
And also there may be a number of guys out there who have been playing some time but still might be interested in some of the finer points that a thread like this can generate - eg how (and why) to play the stun run-through, or whether to change the grip when playing a stun shot etc
Stun to me is just a stop shot but on an angle.
duckie said:
This is good practice (and one reason "measles" cue balls are so instructive). But the stripe probably won't stay horizontal all the way to the OB. If it's any distance away, you'll have to hit lower on the CB and give it some backspin at first, which will wear off by the time it reaches the OB.
If you do this without an OB you can see the changes in rotation:
1. At first the stripe rotates backwards, but this backspin wears off as the CB "skids" along on the cloth.
2. At a certain point the backwards rotation wears completely off and the stripe is momentarily motionless, with no backward or forward rotation.
3. Finally, the stripe starts rotating forward, quickly picking up rotational speed until the CB is "rolling naturally" (within a few inches).
Depending on how you hit the CB and where the OB is you can get four different results.
A. If the CB hits the OB during "phase 1" (when it's rotating backwards), it wall draw back (a little or a lot depending on how much backspin it has left when it hits the OB).
B. If the CB hits the OB during the moment of "phase 2" (when it's sliding without rotating), it will stop or carom along the tangent line - this is what is meant by "stun/stop shot".
C. If the CB hits the OB during the early part of "phase 3" (when it's beginning to rotate forward but hasn't yet reached "natural roll"), it will follow through the OB position a short distance - this is what is meant by "stun rollthrough".
D. If the CB hits the OB during the later part of "phase 3" (when it's "rolling naturally"), it will follow through the OB position a longer distance (depending on how hard you hit it) - this is what is meant by "follow".
pj
chgo
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