Stun

[coryjeb]

Dear lord...stun shots? cinching? What's the next thread going to be, "What is a pool table?"

This post was packed with information! Thanks for stopping by!

 

[Jal]

Dear lord...stun shots? cinching? What's the next thread going to be, "What is a pool table?"

Everyone familiar with the term "stun" agrees with what it is. Well, almost everyone - some seem to equate it with merely sliding.

Not so with cinching a ball. As was obvious from the thread, there's hardly universal agreement as to the best way to do it for this or that particular shot. And judging from many of his posts over the years, I'd bet the originator of that thread knows more about certain aspects of the game than most here on the forum.

And as far as "what is a pool table", that's a deeply troubling question which has vexed philosophers for centuries. (Of course, philosophers are vexed by everything.)

So there.

Jim

 

[Pinocchio]

???????

You know the stroke you use when you shoot the 9ball an shoot hard an your ball doesn't draw an the 9ball hangs up!!!!!! Now use the same stroke on the 1ball split the wicket with the one an shape the 2ball. You have just excuted the elusive stun shot.:grin-square: pool can be fun or:angry:
Pinocchio

 

[duckie]

I only suggest the stripe as visual feedback and not all places have the measle balls. With either one, you can see what Patrick Johnson is talking about.

There is a differnce between a stun shot and a stop shot and its related to distance between the cue ball and object ball. The further away the two are, the more likely some draw will be use, like in a drag draw shot.

To me a stun is hit in the center of the cue ball and the ball does slide, stop shot requires some amount of draw.

 

[chevybob20]

I would like to know how other players control the cue ball path after contact whith the object ball when trying to deviate from the 90 degree stun line. I learned to hit certain speeds consistantly and then adjust the amount of tips below or above the center line based on distance from the object ball and the amount of deviation desired (for example; If one tip low is needed for a stun, then one and a half tips low would deviate x amount from the stun line). I use the diamonds for distance and deviation measurement.

By the way, I'm just a "C" player and joined the site for theads just like this.

 

[dr_dave]

pertinent video demos

I only suggest the stripe as visual feedback and not all places have the measle balls. With either one, you can see what Patrick Johnson is talking about.

There is a differnce between a stun shot and a stop shot and its related to distance between the cue ball and object ball. The further away the two are, the more likely some draw will be use, like in a drag draw shot.

To me a stun is hit in the center of the cue ball and the ball does slide, stop shot requires some amount of draw.

FYI to all, I just remembered I have good descriptions of the topics in this thread, with several good video links here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/draw.html#effects​

Happy viewing,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

lots of good cue-ball-control videos

I would like to know how other players control the cue ball path after contact whith the object ball when trying to deviate from the 90 degree stun line. I learned to hit certain speeds consistantly and then adjust the amount of tips below or above the center line based on distance from the object ball and the amount of deviation desired (for example; If one tip low is needed for a stun, then one and a half tips low would deviate x amount from the stun line). I use the diamonds for distance and deviation measurement.

By the way, I'm just a "C" player and joined the site for theads just like this.

I have lots of pertinent videos and articles on this topic linked here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/position.html​

Check them out.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Colin Colenso]

The stun shot is one of the most important shots in pool because it produces a consistent and predictable angle off of any cut shot (90 degree tangent line) and it is the foundation of all position play based on tip placement along the vertical axis of the cue ball. All those other angles become equally predictable with practice and the appropriate drills. This can lead to more consistent position play and and shot making due to the elimination of unnecessary side spin and the elements of throw and swerve that go along with side spin use. This is one school of thought regarding position play. The one I obviously agree with. Learning the use of stun and the vertical axis was a major step in elevating the quality of my game years ago.

Stun creates more throw from the line-of-centers angle than just about any shot. imho it is to be avoided like the plague on anything but almost straight in and power shots.

Most pros, whether they are aware of it or not, put a touch of outside english on most their cut angle stun shots to reduce the throw.

A center ball stun shot on a 30 degree cut throws about 8 inches over 8 feet compared to hitting the OB at the exact same point with topspin at low-medium speeds.

Here is a demonstration video I made: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=D-xtzn4vbiQ

Colin

 

[dr_dave]

more throw with stun

Stun creates more throw from the line-of-centers angle than just about any shot. imho it is to be avoided like the plague on anything but almost straight in shots.

Most pros, whether they are aware of it or not, put a touch of outside english on most their cut angle stun shots to reduce the throw.

A center ball stun shot on a 30 degree cut throws about 8 inches over 8 feet compared to hitting the OB at the exact same point with topspin at low-medium speeds.

Here is a demonstration video I made: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=D-xtzn4vbiQ

Colin,

I agree this is an extremely important point. FYI to you and others, my October '06 article has a good graph with some examples and data showing this effect. With typical conditions, the amount of throw with a stun shot can be more than 4-times the amount of throw with a follow or draw shot!

Regards,
Dave

 

[Patrick Johnson]

There is a differnce between a stun shot and a stop shot

A stop shot is just a stun shot where the CB stops - because it hits the OB straight on. A stun shot where the CB hits the OB at an angle is not a stop shot, but only because the CB doesn't stop. Otherwise they're the same, and you hit them the same way.

Hitting the CB at its equator isn't what makes a stun shot a stun shot. You can hit the CB very low and put lots of backspin on it, but if all the backspin wears off and the CB is sliding when it hits the OB, then it's a stun shot. It doesn't matter how you hit it - if it's sliding when it hits the OB it's a stun shot.

pj
chgo

 

[duckie]

I wouldn't say a stun shot should be avoided, but know when to use it.

 

[dr_dave]

stop shot at an angle

A stop shot is just a stun shot where the CB stops - because it hits the OB straight on. A stun shot where the CB hits the OB at an angle is not a stop shot, but only because the CB doesn't stop. Otherwise they're the same, and you hit them the same way.

Some people call a "stun shot" a "stop shot at an angle." As you point out, a "stop shot" is just a special case of a "stun shot," where the cut angle is zero.

Regards,
Dave

 

[biblewriter]

A Bounce Not A Jump

Patrick:

In scenario #2, depending on the condition of the cloth, you may even see a little bit of "fish-hook" action if there's a bit of draw applied -- the cue-ball "smashes through" the object ball, travels an inch or so, and only then the draw takes effect, resulting in a pronounced "J" fish-hooking of that cue-ball. This gives rise to the opportunity for shots that are not possible on tables that use standard-weighted cue-balls -- e.g. after impact, have that cue-ball hook behind and around an intervening object ball that would normally be in the path of the carom angle (which, with a "normal" cue-ball, you'd expect a carom/billiard with that intervening object ball).

All of these, and more, are described in R. Givens great work, The 8-Ball Bible. I'm not personally associated with this work, but I thought I'd plug it nonetheless, because it's an eye-opening insight into the differences of physics on certain barboxes.

Hope this is helpful!
-Sean

The smash-through is a great shot, but even pros hang up their cues if you do it very often. It shows them that they are in way over their heads and many wisely head for the rack.

Here's a free tip for bar table players using overweight cue balls. The "fish?hook shot is nice when it comes up, but making it isn't always easy.

A more subtle and more reliable use of an overweight cue ball is making bounce shots. A bounce shot is like a mini-jump shot except that the move is usually imperceptible to opponents. The cue ball only leaves the table maybe 1/2 -1 inch and is very difficult to see because of the speed. All you need to do to bounce the cue ball is stroke hard at a downward angle like you are going to draw the cue ball only without much draw. The elevation doesn't have to be much. Just a little to make the cue ball hop a bit.

When the cue ball is airborne at the moment of impact otherwise impossible carom angles become possible. These new carom angles enable cue ball routes and break shots that others cannot achieve.

I loved the shot because it doesn't reveal any speed even though it is real top line shot. Players simply cannot see the bounce when the ball is hit moderate or harder.

I got the idea for bounce shots after seeing Luther Lassiter do an incredible bounce shot to make an impossible break out (his opponent almost fell out of his chair). My teacher Bud Harris also instructed me in the art of bouncing the cue ball which is sometimes used in 3 cushions to avoid kisses etc.

A little experimentation and observation of carom angles teaches the bounce shot very quickly.