Stupid rules question

Mick

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Player makes his last ball and gets bad shape on the break ball. Player spaces out/ brain farts, and shoots the break ball before racking and misses.

What the hell happens here?
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Player makes his last ball and gets bad shape on the break ball. Player spaces out/ brain farts, and shoots the break ball before racking and misses.

What the hell happens here?
Under unsportsmanlike conduct fouls we have:

(d) continuing to play after a foul has been called or play has been suspended;

and under continuing play into the next rack, we have:

When fourteen balls from a rack have been legally pocketed, play is suspended until the balls are re-racked.

... so, it is unsportsmanlike conduct to shoot while the balls are being racked.

A place where this could come up is when the player leaves himself a straight-in along head rail for his break shot. After cursing his luck briefly, he calls safe before the ref finishes the rack, and shoots a stop shot, figuring the ball needs to be racked anyway so he is helping the ref to walk less. That puts the ref in a difficult position to figure out an appropriate penalty.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Not as stupid as you think. Weird stuff like this comes up all the time even at pro level.

I recall watching Jose Parica vs Lee Van Cortezza playing in the US Open 8-ball. I think it was 2013. Parica broke, but neither he nor Van Cortezza noticed that he'd made the eight ball on the break. The rule in use was that it would be spotted. Parica shot several balls before realizing that the eight ball wasn't even on the table! Under the rules, this was loss of game.
 

Mick

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Under unsportsmanlike conduct fouls we have:

(d) continuing to play after a foul has been called or play has been suspended;

and under continuing play into the next rack, we have:

When fourteen balls from a rack have been legally pocketed, play is suspended until the balls are re-racked.

... so, it is unsportsmanlike conduct to shoot while the balls are being racked.

A place where this could come up is when the player leaves himself a straight-in along head rail for his break shot. After cursing his luck briefly, he calls safe before the ref finishes the rack, and shoots a stop shot, figuring the ball needs to be racked anyway so he is helping the ref to walk less. That puts the ref in a difficult position to figure out an appropriate penalty.

So the fouling player gets a foul for unsportsmanlike. The incoming player has table in position after the balls are racked I guess?

I wasn't there for it, but it happened between 2 of my friends shortly before I got there. Their decision was to call it a foul, and incoming player accepting table as-is. They then asked me how I'd rule it and I had no idea. I couldn't imagine the situation ever coming up to be honest.

Player 2 offered to have the balls replaced and racked and give player 1 the shot over (it was an honest mistake) but player 1 insisted that he should be penalized somehow for such a boneheaded move.
 
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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
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Silver Member
Ten year ban from pool and forced to take up frisbee golf.

While frisbee golf is not mentioned explicitly in the possible penalties for unsportsmanlike conduct, ejection from the event and forfeiture of all prize money and rating points are. Another possible penalty is a simple warning, and that seems like the most reasonable in many situations where the early shot had no effect on the outcome and the player had no sinister motive.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
So the fouling player gets a foul for unsportsmanlike. ... but player 1 insisted that he should be penalized somehow for such a boneheaded move.
As mentioned, it really depends on the situation. If the boneheadedness is harmless, and neither player knows the rules, it's hard for the ref/temp official to be a hardass. If the player shot through the rack area to make his game ball, it's easier.
 
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