Sugartree for sale: Olivewood/Black Palm

edited - it was a waste of my time to respond here. Re-reading your response, it's obvious that you are still dancing around the 'CRACK' vs 'CHECK' deceptive terminology, and diverting attention away from that.

If it had sold, I would have let it rest - you are correct. But since it didn't, it was obvious that it WAS because I mentioned the CRACKS that you did not, so yes, it chapped my butt that you had sold a cue through deception, and yes, I decided to bring it up. No, I didn't ask you for a refund, and NO, do not even think about trying to give anyone the idea that you would have offered one. I gave you every opportunity by telling you my complaints, and you simply danced and danced and danced, and you are STILL dancing.

Sorry, I just have grown very tired of the weasels on this forum trying to make a buck through deceptive practices. As it stands, I'm keeping the cue and wouldn't sell it back to you even if you offered. Quite simply, I don't deal with people like you.
 
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qbilder said:
There were hairline surface checks in the wood to begin with, from square. I have a method I use to stabilize woods like olive to seal the checks, prevent warpage & any further checking. It is a west system/acetone mix that is mixed to an appropriate viscosity to penetrate the wood much as chemical penetrants do. It soaked in the mix for 36 hours, then given a week for the solution to cure. Basically, it's epoxy impregnated olivewood. This is a method I borrowed from fine/intricate woodworking that is used to stabilize burls, soft woods & other unstable woods. I put my own twist on it, substituting epoxy for acrylic plastic but otherwise the method is the same. I have absolutely no doubt as to it's strength & stability, as I have used this method often & for a long time.

This particular cue was built to spec & design for a friend/customer. He was involved entirely. He sold the cue after years of use so he could order a more intricately designed cue. From there, I have no clue as to how the cue was treated or cared for, though I do believe it was well taken care of. Either way, the cue is deep into the secondary market now & has not been affiliated with me or the original owner for years. I am not making any money or involved in any way with the sale of this cue. I just wanted to clarify the originality of the issues at hand.
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As I stated previously, I bought this cue because I wanted to try a Sugartree. Perhaps this wasn't the best example to try, but it's a great-playing cue - my complaints about the seller's description had nothing to do with play. I took it out to the pool hall tonight to give it one last test-ride before trading it. It played so well that I decided to keep it.

Although everyone who looked at it asked me about the cracks, they also all said it was incredible-looking wood, both the olive and the palm.

I would highly recommend Sugartree cues to anyone, especially if you wanted a wrapless cue.

Edited to add: I've said all I have to say about this cue and about the seller. I'm sure Vic is a decent enough guy - he just needed money and was going to do whatever it took to sell his cue. His integrity allows him to do that - mine doesn't.

...Later
 
This is important

If you can't stand behind what you advertise with a satisfaction gaurentee you should not be allowed to post here unless you say condition is not guarenteed.
We are not lawyers here. We care very little about anything happening except one very important thing.
Both parties must be satisfied.
If you do your very best to honestly sell anything here you have only done half the job.
Satisfaction the second part and is the most important part of all.
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR HONESTY. YOU ARE VERY HONEST. THE PICTURES ARE CRYSTAL.
We know what we like and we don't mind payin. Cut and dry. No back and forth about what will make it right. The members are not in this frame of mind.
We don't mind payin for what we like.
But eposy filled cracks. All I see is a picture. Scott is a wood freak. If he sees anything he doesn't want or like with your cue it is your cue until he is satisfied.
This is a respect all members try to show to all other mebers.
Scott is very right.
The buyer is always right.
Good luck with your resolution
 
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nick serdula said:
It shows 2 very distinguishable cracks. One starts at the joint ring. The other starts near where thi first one ends. You should be allowed to return the cue if you never hit with it.
Nick :)
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That's a good question, I find it odd that the original post was modified yesterday, 2 weeks after it was sold.
 
I had no plans of ever opening this thread again, but to be completely fair, I got on my computer this morning and had a very pleasant email from Vic, offering to send me $200 as a compromise. I had been working a trade deal with a friend, prior to playing with the cue last night. Since the trade was worth about $800, and I have $875 in the cue, I'll assume I can get lucky and break even when I sell the two cues involved in the trade. I never planned on making a single $ off this Sugartree - just wanted to try one for playability, examine construction, then put back on AZ at my cost so someone else could try it.

So Vic, keep the $200, but thanks for the offer - if it makes you feel better, give it to a charity.
 
I'm going to open a new can of worm and say I think Vic handled this transaction in most honest professional manner.

Scott, I can't believe you started all this simply because you were not able to resale the cue at your cost. Most honorable way to handle this was to revert the transaction as soon as you had your concern about crack/check.

As soon as you decided not undo the transaction, I think you lost your right to complain about the original seller.
 
Jazz said:
I'm going to open a new can of worm and say I think Vic handled this transaction in most honest professional manner.

Scott, I can't believe you started all this simply because you were not able to resale the cue at your cost. Most honorable way to handle this was to revert the transaction as soon as you had your concern about crack/check.

As soon as you decided not undo the transaction, I think you lost your right to complain about the original seller.
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DING..DING........ Round ?? :eek: :D
 
Jazz said:
I'm going to open a new can of worm and say I think Vic handled this transaction in most honest professional manner.

Scott, I can't believe you started all this simply because you were not able to resale the cue at your cost. Most honorable way to handle this was to revert the transaction as soon as you had your concern about crack/check.

As soon as you decided not undo the transaction, I think you lost your right to complain about the original seller.
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Yeah, why not open a new can of worms now that it is settled? :rolleyes:

Let me repeat, for the selective information parsers: THIS WAS NOT ABOUT MONEY - IF IT WAS, THEN I WOULD HAVE TAKEN THE $200 THAT VIC OFFERED ME.

You have not been made privvy to all the emails that went back and forth between me and Vic. I gave the guy every opportunity to admit his ad was deceptive. If he had, I might have asked for a refund, but then again - I might not have. Hard to say since he made it clear in his emails that he was sticking to his guns. Now that this has all been aired, and he offered $200, I declined it. But he did offer it, and I appreciate that. Geez, am I repeating myself yet?

I did not bring this up simply because my cue didn't sell. In fact, I tried to give Vic the benefit of the doubt and rationalize that the cue WOULD sell, despite the cracks. Why? Because I DID NOT WANT A FIGHT OVER THIS. When it became obvious that the cue would NOT sell, because I DESCRIBED IT AS HAVING CRACKS (are you seeing the different effect yet, of the term 'check' vs 'crack'?), my rationalization about keeping my mouth shut wore very thin, I grew pissed at the fact that I listened to Vic's plethora of emails trying to explain away his use of 'check', and I posted. BUT I NEVER ASKED FOR A REFUND. This was about deceptive descriptions, NOT ABOUT MONEY.

In the past when an AZ deceptive description has put me in a situation where I knew I would probably lose money if I ever re-sold, I bit my lip and then re-sold later at a loss, but believe me - I was not happy. In two cases, I did this with very well-respected sellers on this forum, and I did not want to go head to head with them and get a lot of people involved. So instead, I took a $200 loss on one cue, and $100 on another, when I DESCRIBED THEM ACCURATELY. This was simply the deceptive deal that broke the camel's back.

If you don't get, that's your issue, not mine.

Folks, I'm through with this thread - I've said everything I have to say, I've had a lot of support via PM, email and phone calls, and I've read the opinions of several who disagree with me. In the end, I'm sleeping comfortably in my skin, and Vic in his.

Jazz - if you want to bump this back to the top and take another shot at me, feel free. I don't get it, but that's your right.


Edited to add: one more point. I RARELY ask for refunds. I will do everything in my power to avoid asking for my money back on a cue deal. I will rationalize to my fullest ability how the seller is right, and I am wrong, just so I don't have to back out of a deal. How many times have I asked for my money back on a deal with an AZ'er? ONCE, and this wasn't it.
 
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pooldogue said:
DING..DING........ Round ?? :eek: :D
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Don't you have anything better to do? Go surf for porn or something, then shave, take a shower, and see what the outside world is like.

Jazz bumping this with his opinion is fine - if he really believes Vic needs support, I understand that and I respect it.

Man, the nits are on this stuff so fast I don't even have time to delete my subscription :rolleyes:
 
Yup .. you're the only honorable and righteous one....

Funny, just last year you were complaining and said you were done with cues because you were in Vic's shoes at that time where you were selling the cues and the buyers were finding any excuses to undo the transaction and you were fed up with 'em. So it's entirely possible that one's deceptive selling tactic can be honest oversight or difference of opinion.

As for crack/check issue being the reason for lack of resale interest, you might be right .... but I wasn't really aware of the issue UNTIL you started to point it out.

You may see this as me taking a shot at you ... and that is your right .. but I'm just pointing out hypocrisy as I see them. Read your own post #41.
 
Jazz said:
Yup .. you're the only honorable and righteous one....

Funny, just last year you were complaining and said you were done with cues because you were in Vic's shoes at that time where you were selling the cues and the buyers were finding any excuses to undo the transaction and you were fed up with 'em. So it's entirely possible that one's deceptive selling tactic can be honest oversight or difference of opinion.

As for crack/check issue being the reason for lack of resale interest, you might be right .... but I wasn't really aware of the issue UNTIL you started to point it out.

You may see this as me taking a shot at you ... and that is your right .. but I'm just pointing out hypocrisy as I see them. Read your own post #41.
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You know Jazz, you are protesting a bit too loudly for someone who seemingly is not the least bit involved in this transaction.

I'm thinking you are still a little upset because I called YOU out for a bit of dishonorable trading. Remember when you talked me into backing off of Mason's Tucker cue by promising me that once you got it, you would sell me one of yours, and then later said "I don't know what you are talking about" ??? This is all starting to make sense, especially given your warped sense of integrity. You are the prime example on this board of someone who will do WHATEVER it takes to get what you want, so I'm not the least bit surprised that you think Vic's disguising a 'crack' with the word 'check' is fine. You also have gotten involved in other trades that I was part of, breaking up a Sugartree deal that I had made because YOU wanted it. I know you are one of the big deal traders on this board, and everyone loves you, but you're not as lilly-white in your dealings as you would have everyone believe.

Just calling them as I see them, and this certainly looks like after a long wait, you felt you finally had the opportunity to get even for my calling you on your dishonesty on that Tucker deal that you backed out on.

Good job Jazz - Congrats!

Hey Lisa - I'm not subscribed to this thread for a reason. I don't feel like reading any more of the nits' posts on this thread. So when you see Jazz respond again with his softshoe step, ( and he will, because he's now backed in a corner ), don't even mention it to me again.

Thanks.
 
runscott said:
I'm thinking you are still a little upset because I called YOU out for a bit of dishonorable trading. Remember when you talked me into backing off of Mason's Tucker cue by promising me that once you got it, you would sell me one of yours, and then later said "I don't know what you are talking about" ???
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Nope .. this is where your delusion comes in. This is another case when I see you turn from what seems to be a nice guy into a total psycho.

I have every emails from and to you regarding the your delusion but don't see a need to justify myself. You see, like you, I'm very OK with my integrity and can sleep peacefully at night.
 
runscott said:
Don't you have anything better to do? Go surf for porn or something, then shave, take a shower, and see what the outside world is like.

Jazz bumping this with his opinion is fine - if he really believes Vic needs support, I understand that and I respect it.

Man, the nits are on this stuff so fast I don't even have time to delete my subscription :rolleyes:
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Oh, ok Mr. runscootr ill do that, as soon as you stop posting stupid sh!t here for me to read and laugh my balls off about................ I wish you the best selling the "CRACKED" cue sir ...........:)
 
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