Suggested Guidelines & Tips for Smooth Sales Transactions

While I have never done a deal with Ken...I can say that I do know him personally, and have been to his place of business several times. I have never known him to tell a mis-truth. He will pretty readily tell you straight up how he feels about something...and why.

He is also not exactly what I would call a flipper, either. Listen, in these parts, there are very few players who are savvy enough to recognize a high end cue...let alone to have heard of most of the top name makers out there. Their world view, with regards to pool and cues, is generally pretty small. There are a few of us who do have this passion for cues...but we are far and few between in our neck o' the woods.

My best guess would be that Ken was after this cue for himself...he likes to check out different cues playability.

All I can say is that the seller should have made the 'all sales final' VERY clear PRIOR to the finalization of the transaction. It would have very likely made a huge difference.

The reality of this is...Ken could have spent a few hundred more, and could have gotten himself a brand new, flawless BG from a couple of forum members....and would have likely gotten a satisfaction guarantee to boot.

Also....in Ken's defense, he did not mention the seller's name/moniker...or even link to the FS thread. This was all done by other members here. I think he was handling this in the best way he knew how, without causing a huge sh*t-fest.

Ken....I feel badly for you. I know what it's like to wait on a 'new' player...so it has to really suck when you open the box to a big disappointment. Hopefully this will still work out for you, in some way. :thumbup:

Lisa
 
Ken and I have exchanged PM's on several occasions and I always found him to be a first-class guy. I once told him that it would be nice if everyone handled their business in the manner that he handles his. He replied that it was all about KARMA. Looks like sometimes KARMA can bite you on the ass, but it's never about one deal; keep the faith Ken, it's a long game.
 
Document will be in 2-3 parts as too long.

Well folks I tried to reframe from getting involve in these types of threads as we have all have seen them and they usually go no where. I guess another part of me said just wait and let him dig his hole a little deeper. Of the 4500 people who read these two threads most where respectful and wise and said nothing. The ones who were not and thrive in this certainly showed themselves. I have always been a strong believer in what goes around, comes around, and that you get away with nothing in this life! In the end there is only one person that we have to answer to. What you have read or heard have only been half or part truths and many facts have been taken out of context. That is why there is a phrase that says, ?there is two sides of every story? and that is why in this country you are innocent until proven guilty. Ken, it is a good thing that you are not representing a client in court, because you wouldn?t make it past a deposition not to mention discovery. In fact you couldn?t make it past PAY-PAL. I would also like to start by saying to Flyingsnail that I think it was very rude and distasteful for you to post a link to my post of the cue for everyone to see. I didn?t do any business with you and don?t know why you sent me a personal PM. Here are the details of the sale. Keep in mind that no were in my post is J.Protectors mentioned or seen in pictures. Also does it say all sales are final anywhere?
I bought this cue from Jeff (custmqs) on Nov. 15th. Look it up. The first thing I did is call R.Harris, give him the S.N. to get the details on the cue. He stated that he put the wrap on about 1 to 1 ? years ago. Gave me to shaft diameters, weight, said that it was very nice, etc. When I bought and received the cue or any cue the first thing I do is take pictures, weigh, take shafts measurements, roll shafts, inspect, etc. I always ask seller if both shafts and butt roll perfect and I am concerned if shaft taper has been compromised. This cue checked out just fine and also hits and plays great. Reminded me of the feel and playability characteristics of my 1987 Franklin. I then called R.H. and PM?d seller and stated that the cue hits great etc. I have owned the S.W. for 20 years and decided to retire it and play with something else. So for the last year or so I have bought about 12 or so cues. I still have about 7 or 8 of those and have sold 4 or 5. cont...............
 
This B.Grass is excellent. Hits and plays great, but at 19oz even, just plays too light for me. I have only owned it for 7 weeks, have only hit like 4 racks with it and have never taken it out of the house. It is in the same condition as when I received it. It just sat on the wall in my cue rack and ever so often I would pick up and continue to give it another try. But ultimately I decided to sell the cue. Ken purchased cue for 1000.00 and asked me to take pay-pal. I did this and took the hit on the fees. I also paid for priority mail and the insurance. I paid 1050 and netted 950 in 7 weeks. But that’s ok. No one forced me to do this and if it cost me 50 or 100 bucks to get to try different cues that’s ok with me. I am not trying to make a living at this. It was a Friday and I suggested that we wait until Monday to mail so the cue wouldn’t be sitting somewhere over the weekend. In regards to the J.P’s …When Ken bought the cue at this time I did send PM stating matching J.P’s. Perhaps this was a bad choose of the verbiage used. I then PM’d a whole paragraph stating that I wanted him to be aware that Cue came with J.P. only for butt of cue that Richard had made. This can also be seen in post from Jeff whom I purchased cue from and who’s post Ken has also researched. I explained that when I received cue I then had 2 JP’s made for the shafts that were purchased off of Ebay. I told him that they are not that good but that they are better than nothing, there is no sense in me keeping them so I was sending them with cue. I believe that I even sent this explanation twice. Did you Ken then contact me and say that the whole deal is over? That to forget it, or refund your money. Did you post a copy of that on here for all to see? No you did not! But what you did do is send me a PM dated Jan. 28th stating that the “joint protectors are not a big deal”. Did you post this for all to see? NO but I guess 10 days after this you have decided that it is a big deal and post close up and magnified pictures. Also when you received cue the very first PM you sent me says “ I got the cue this afternoon….. It’s a nice cue!” Did you post this for all to see? In this same PM you say that one shaft is 12.91 and one is 12.82. (I posted both at over 13mm) and that the taper seams off. I then replied that no they certainly are not! One shaft is in fact 13.03 and the other 13.25 and explained on how to check the taper (measure). You replied that you apologize that your batteries in your caliper is either dead or almost dead. Well I don’t know about you folks but if I get a reply back of this nature immediately a red flag goes up. This is a ridiculous reply. Also did you post this reply on AZ for all to see? On 1/31 you send a PM stating that you now are aware after researching that the cue was previously own by (custmqs) and by (via). You now state that “since the cue has been play with by both me and Jeff” that you feel that it is not worth the 1000 and has been misrepresented and want to know what to do to resolve (another word for send you some money) this situation. You also say in this note for the second time “Honestly, it’s a nice cue” Did you post this for all to see? Well guess what, of course it has been played by me and Jeff. It has been played by several people. Did I post or ever say otherwise. Are the tips not half shot in the Pics? Does it not say a 2003 cue? Another issue stated is this chip in the butt. This is not what would be called a chip. It appears to be more of a flaw and is clear coated over. This can be seen in your pics and is in Jeff’s post from when I bought it and he more accurately refers to it as a dimple. Of course you take a magnified close up picture and make it look huge. I quite frankly had forgotten about it since the day I bought it. Many of you have commented that if buyer is not satisfied that cue should be sent back to seller for refund. No sales are finale. Do I believe this? Absolutely! I never said in my post “All sale are final”. But Ken demanded that I send him 1000.00 back plus 20 for shipping or that I make concessions (send him partial refund). Remember I already paid all shipping, insurance and pay pal fees. Does this sound reasonable? If I sent 1000 plus 20, how do I even know that I will get the cue or get it back in the same condition as I sent it. Would this be a smart business decision? Did he post this for all to see? I know that I bought a cue once that’s said test hit only, no bluing, shafts roll perfect. When I got it, both shafts wobbled, had bluing, and were test hit by everyone. Well I just sent back and paid insurance and shipping myself. I know that’s the chance we take. Many on here commented that shipping should be paid both ways by buyer. Even Ken’s sidekick stated this. The fact is Ken didn’t want to send the cue back he wanted concessions just like he said. And just like he asked for in his furious pay-pal claim, $300.00. Did he post this for all to see? Some have stated that he is not a cue flipper. But yet he posts his link constantly that has like 8 cues for sale right now! If you have 270 transactions on ebay and 74 Itrader on AZ either your flipping them or maybe just trying to buy every cue listed in the Blue Book of Cues. But that is ok. I have no problem with guys doing this and have bought from them. I know several are retired, maybe on a fixed income, maybe disabled (like the guy who made the extra JP’s) and just trying to make some extra cash. This is all good and ok by me. What I do have a problem with is someone trying to take advantage of some else, make false claims, bully them for concessions, try to get the cue down to $700, put a couple of new tips on it then repost 3 months later for $1100. After getting nowhere with Ken and after he kept finding fictitious flaws, and being called a liar, I had to make a decision and to tell him that I now considered this deal closed. I also cautioned him to think before slinging false accusations about me on AZ. So what does he do? He starts a thread titled “Guidelines for posting cues for sale” and then talks to FlyingSnail on the phone had has HIM post my link for all to see. Boy was this rehearsed! Flyingsnail I don’t recall doing business with you so what right do you have to incriminate me. Why are you sending me a PM. Have you seen the cue? You two are in two different states in fact are you not? Then we have a brilliantly made comment by Nick S. that Ken and Flyingsnail are “Well Off”. What the heck does that mean? How do you know I’m not? You know, I have worked since the 8th grade, retired at age 45; I live on accarage in a gated community in a 1.5m home. I am living quite well. Do I feel that I need to make this known to everyone? I have 164 positive feedbacks on Ebay without 1 problem or negative one. I have nothing but all positive transactions from pay-pal (why do you think they dismissed you so fast). But does that make me more creditable? Does having money make anyone more honest? Usually it’s the other way. If a sixteen-year-old kid came on here and posted a cue would it be right to assume that he is dishonest? After reading some of your post I guess some people think just that. I have been nothing but truthful during this whole transaction. It is a 2003 players cue just like I stated to you several times. You can see in the pics listed by Via, and Jeff the tips look Identical on the cue as when you received it from me. I am a smart guy. I do my own tips and shaft maintenance. Don’t you think that I would have replaced both tips, used Magic eraser on the bluing and polished the shafts if I was trying to pull a fast one on some one. Did I ever imply that it was unplayed or a like new pristine condition absolutely flawless cue? It is a very nice cue. Anyone can take picture and magnified them as we all know and make it look to there advantage. I just received a brand new 09 cue Wed. I took pictures like usual and the cue shows all kinds of stuff but I know what the camera does. I also find it especially disturbing that after about a week you now claim both shafts have nicks in them. Which is false. If they did do really think I would just mail to you in that manner. None of my sticks have nicks. If the shafts have nicks isn’t this something that the average person (not to mention someone with 244 reviews) might notice like as soon as they got it. You just jump from one thing to the other and never argued one aspect or flaw with intelligence. I am a good person and an honest person. I go to church every week, I vote, I am not a felon, I give to the community and charities. Who are YOU to sling these slanderous and false accusations about me? Why did you not do all your research and homework before you bought the cue? I believe that your sole desire was to think that you could get a cue that has (sold for 1100.00 several times before on AZ and is 1375 shipped new) for less than the current market value. Then you would turn around a make a quick 100 or more. When you received cue and feel that you can no longer do this you stretch the truths, give only part accounts of the facts, take blown up pictures and now demand $300 in concessions. Well you are barking up the wrong tree here. To those who have supported me and sent private PM’s, I thank you. For those who knew nothing but yet wanted to drop me with the hang mans loose on I have no comment at all for you. Life is too short.

Oh one more thing. I understand that Jeff (custmqs) sent you a very nice PM about the cue, why don’t you post that for all to see?

Mark
 
First of all.....

Your buddy started slinging cow patties here Mark. Maybe you should really re-read the PM's etc. You misrepresented the cue and the JP's don't match. I asked you to refund the purchase price and cover shipping (since the cue and JP's were misrepresented) or throw me a bone or something -- you get pissed -- tell me the sale is final and disregard my PM's. I asked for $300 via PayPal which wouldn't even come close to paying for a refinish and a set of JP's (that you can't even get) -- am I pissed (take a wild guess). I think if anyone here has been slanderous it would be yourself and, your friend who started this in the first place.

Today, I make you another offer and then you proceed to create the laundry list. The dispute is open with the Credit Card Company -- I'm getting tired of typing :mad:


Mark, just to be clear the PayPal dispute was done on Wed. 2/4; the Credit Card dispute was done yesterday Thu. 2/5 --Just wanting to make sure you get your date and times right.
 
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Wrong Again, Skipper ...

Your "little buddy" SNAIL cast the first stone, just the way YOU orchestrated it ... He should be upset with the way you USED him.

You've been BUSTED !!! ... You made a Piss-Poor attempt at extorting money from the Seller and it backfired in your face.

Man, LET IT GO while you still have some shred of credibility ...

The Hole is getting deeper and deeper ... climb out while you can.
 
Who's Busted? Please take off those dark glasses...

Str8PoolPlayer said:
Your "little buddy" SNAIL cast the first stone, just the way YOU orchestrated it ... He should be upset with the way you USED him.

You've been BUSTED !!! ... You made a Piss-Poor attempt at extorting money from the Seller and it backfired in your face.

Man, LET IT GO while you still have some shred of credibility ...

The Hole is getting deeper and deeper ... climb out while you can.

I may not be as intellectual as you and Saint1. But I sure the heck can tell time, read and, I'm not completely blind yet :eek:

Did you just call me an EXTORTIONIST? So, now I'm a LIAR and an EXTORTIONIST and we all are working together here to screw Saint1 out of a few $$$....You can't be serious :mad:

I'm not worried about my credibility. I didn't ask Kenny to post anything for me. He called me at work and thought I should pull up the thread which I wasn't ready to do, unfortunate but no collusion here; it probably would have come up anyways.

The funny thing is that neither you or the Saint1 are ever on here at the same time? I've noticed he might be on right after you or vice versa but, never seen you both on here at once? Kinda weird....things that make you go, HUH?

How long you guys been on here? Who's more credible??
 
You are certainly grasping at straws, Skipper.

First it was how "well off" you are and how that makes you more believable in every situation.

Now it's "how much longer" you've been on here that makes you Jesus Christ.

You have me beat by 10 mos., so that makes you the WINNER !!!

I bow before you, Excellency
 
Str8PoolPlayer said:
Your "little buddy" SNAIL cast the first stone, just the way YOU orchestrated it ... He should be upset with the way you USED him.

You've been BUSTED !!! ... You made a Piss-Poor attempt at extorting money from the Seller and it backfired in your face.

Man, LET IT GO while you still have some shred of credibility ...

The Hole is getting deeper and deeper ... climb out while you can.
Re: you may have a little problem.......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now what is wrong with letting Saint1 know about this thread? I talk with a lot people on the phone or through pm here AZB. I have nothing to hided, unless both of you do have something to hided? This is a very long road for you and Saint1 to do business with all the AZer. All I ask Saint1 to do the right thing. Why dont you read I wrote in this pm below. Does Saint1 need that much help from you to speak up for him? All krbsailing asking was compensation the defferent. That could have just work through the pm. Saint1 and krbsailing could have meet in the middle of some kind of agreement. I dont know how much CREDIBILITYyou talking about you have in this AZB. If you take care of Business like this, maybe you and Saint1 CREDIBILITYmight not go too far in AZB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saint1
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYINGSNAIL
Saint1,
You may have a little problem with krbsailing on that thread. check forum thread below.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showth...=1#post1650418


Can I ask how you may know about this?

Hey look I dont want no one to pits at me, I talk to Ken krbsailing on the phone from time to time. I know you have some good iTrade. I am not on either side . I think Ken just want to work something out with you. I am sure you are very reasonable man also.
 
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.....still love to see those PICS

Str8PoolPlayer said:
... that Ken is a LIAR and YOU don't have any of the facts, but decided to chime in to help your "Pal" with a "subtle" comment here and there.

I lied when I said I wasn't party to this transaction, knowing that the Buyer (KRB) would come on here and tell lie after lie about the Cue and that people like you would add their 2-cents without knowing any of the Facts.

It so happens I was at the Seller's home the evening he was packing the Cue for shipment, as he was installing a SuperPro Tip on one on my shafts.

He took me into his Pool Room where he shot several pictures of the Cue, rolled it (and the Shafts) on the table, weighed the Cue and Shafts, allowed me to closely examine the Cue and Shafts, then carefully packaged the Cue while we were waiting for the glue to cure on my shaft.

There were NO dings, dents, or scuffs on the Butt or Shafts and any accusation thereof is a Bald-faced LIE.

Another HUGE LIE concerns the Joint Protectors. They were included FREE and were not part of the deal in any way. Now the Buyer says they were also mis-represented and he didn't even know he was getting them, and FREE to boot.

All you need to do is read all the PM's and emails from the Buyer and it becomes Crystal Clear that this is a case of Buyer's Remorse.

If the Buyer had not purposely LIED to the Seller this transaction would probably have been reversed.

I know the Seller personally and his Honesty and Reputation are flawless.

Absolutely Every Detail about the Cue was fully disclosed to the Buyer prior to the Sale (except for the FREE JP's.)

You will draw your own conclusions, but that will not alter the TRUTH !!!


:confused: I never said I was well-off quite to the contrary ; if anything , I'm pool cue poor -- no need to bow :grin-square:

Love to see those pics you guys took too :wink:
 
You are certainly grasping at straws.....

Str8PoolPlayer said:
You are certainly grasping at straws, Skipper.

First it was how "well off" you are and how that makes you more believable in every situation.

Now it's "how much longer" you've been on here that makes you Jesus Christ.

You have me beat by 10 mos., so that makes you the WINNER !!!

I bow before you, Excellency


....you guys have been doing this for several days :bow-down:
 
You are in the Middle, just like me ...

FLYINGSNAIL said:
Now what is wrong with letting Saint1 know about this thread?

I only got into this mess when I saw your post which indicated that
Saint1 was the Seller whom krbsailing was referring to.

I didn't email Saint1 until after I posted my first response. I was there when the Cue was packaged and had every opportunity to closely examine it. I didn't see or feel anything on the Cue or Shafts that required any attention or detracted from the value of the Cue.
The Cue is very nice, no matter what anyone says, and is worth every penny that was paid. I have far too many Custom Cues now or it would be in my Collection and this horror story would never have unfolded.

You are a well respected member of this Community, as are Ken and Mark. I normally only sell on eBay, but have listed and sold a few items here.

I have bought and sold over 300 Custom Cues on eBay since August of 1998 and have over 350 Positives and just 1 Negative, from a guy who deliberately damaged an expensive cue due to Buyer's Remorse. That cost me $1275.00 ... money that I will never recoup.

I truly believe that the deal between Ken and Mark was equittable and should be considered complete.

I promise you this : I will not post again on either thread as long as no one other than Buyer and Seller posts.

Thank You for your time, Howard
 
The cue is nice

It is worth what you asked as described. But the cue like you Mr straight is in fact questionable. The fact that you have sold hundreds of cues yet will not refund on cue not as described speaks volumes to your charactor.
Good for you and Fleabay. Do us all a favor and return to the fleabay You do not belong here at all. You belong on the bay. You are welcome there but regretable you may not ever sell another cue here again with out a satisfaction gaurentee. But that like your words aren't worth much here these days.
Enjoy the bay. You are by no means a rip off. But we on this board hold each other to a higher standard than you seem to reflect in your business practices.If you are asked to take a cue back you do it. Why? Because your only concern should be are they happy. Not But you got a smokin deal! Or I did not burn you. Or anything else. It is about respecting the buyers opinion more than yours. This what Kenny and just about everyone else here practices because we expect the same.
Nick :)
 
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Buyer's Remorse.....

Str8PoolPlayer said:
I would like to add that Buyer's Remorse is NOT an excuse for returning a Cue ... Although I am not party to the (afore-mentioned) so-called "unsatifactory" transaction, I must add that I've had at least two deals go sour because the Buyer changed their mind after the sale and wanted a refund ... In one case, the Buyer deliberately damaged the Cue, then complained to PayPal who promptly "robbed" me of $1275.00 ... After the Cue was returned, I shipped it to the Maker who immediately called me to say it had certainly been purposely broken and was not repairable ... PayPal said they didn't give a damn about my broken Cue ...

ALL SALES FINAL means just that, period ...

Well Maestro, just another straw here but, I do find it interesting that you posted this response after I sent an email to Saint1 suggesting that he read this thread. I know he read the thread before your post. Do you guys ever talk on the phone before you make your posts? Just one more of those things that make you go.....HMMM :scratchhead:

From: Ken Boyle
Date: 2/3/2009 12:02:58 PM
To: MStgerm700@aol.com
Subject: Suggested Reading

http://forums.azbilliards.Com/showthread.php?p=1648434#post1648434

-------Original Message-------

From: MStgerm700@aol.com
Date: 1/26/2009 12:49:56 PM
To: krbsailing@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Cue

Hello, mailed your cue out today. You will have Wed. Track. VG 668 010 360 US.

Just so you know. The cue came with J. Protector for the butt only as is common with R. Harris. I then had that guy on E-bay make two for the shafts. They are also Maple, bigger in Dia. not the greatest but better than nothing.

Thanks Mark
 
only thing that matters to me is that the buyer is happy. If they aren't then they get a refund.

Can't believe everyone isn't this way.
 
cubswin said:
only thing that matters to me is that the buyer is happy. If they aren't then they get a refund.

Can't believe everyone isn't this way.


I agree, cubbie....I would be absolutely mortified if someone was so unhappy with an item I sold them, as to have to feel like they need to resort to posting about it in one manner or another. Which is why I make it a practice of disclosing every little thing I can think of...no matter how minor. The only surprises there should be with these types of transactions are happy ones, IMHO.

Lisa
 
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