Southpaw said:
Thanks for the input Southpaw. I agree, men versus women and 8 ball is a good format that should remain.
Suggestions to help the IPT
- Thread starter shanesinnott
- Start date
Thanks for the input Southpaw. I agree, men versus women and 8 ball is a good format that should remain.
The PHOENIX
Banned
jjinfla said:
Some tours have lasted over a decade. Don't you think they have a sound financial plan? It may be on a smaller scale but the plan is solid.
jjinfla said:
Input from players alone is not the best of ideas. I'm not knocking the players but everyone needs 2 sides to each story.
jjinfla said:
?
jjinfla said:
Well, some of them probably should but others can take credit for what was given to the players.
jjinfla said:
Creating a positive cash flow is what it's all about. Turning ideas into sponsorships and sponoships into cash is what few in our industry have mastered. KT needs the help from the ones who have had much successs in these areas.
jjinfla said:
Only some would.
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After the King of the Hill event, I compiled an 8-10 page report with several observations and recommendations.
This was received warmly by KT and Deno and I received some detailed feedback from Deno on several of the issues. A few of the recommendations eventually were realized. Not necessarily because I made them, but that may have contributed to their thinking. For example on the issue of the GLI.
Anyway, the point is, that I think people will often accept advice if it is presented to them professionally and well thought out. Tons of people have ideas, but few present and sell them effectively. I figure KT and Deno, like many other business people get tired with being pestered with half thought out recommendations, that may not be currently practical for the business to consider. So I wouldn't be so tough on them in this regard.
As for this community discussion, sure it's a good idea. People bouncing ideas of each other might lead to some good changes. But perhaps what is needed is an intelligent summary of the discussion for briefing and consideration by the IPT.
Colin
This was received warmly by KT and Deno and I received some detailed feedback from Deno on several of the issues. A few of the recommendations eventually were realized. Not necessarily because I made them, but that may have contributed to their thinking. For example on the issue of the GLI.
Anyway, the point is, that I think people will often accept advice if it is presented to them professionally and well thought out. Tons of people have ideas, but few present and sell them effectively. I figure KT and Deno, like many other business people get tired with being pestered with half thought out recommendations, that may not be currently practical for the business to consider. So I wouldn't be so tough on them in this regard.
As for this community discussion, sure it's a good idea. People bouncing ideas of each other might lead to some good changes. But perhaps what is needed is an intelligent summary of the discussion for briefing and consideration by the IPT.
Colin
Sounds Logical To Me
As for this community discussion, sure it's a good idea. People bouncing ideas of each other might lead to some good changes. But perhaps what is needed is an intelligent summary of the discussion for briefing and consideration by the IPT.
Colin
Yep, any volunteers ?
Doug
( Bernie? )
As for this community discussion, sure it's a good idea. People bouncing ideas of each other might lead to some good changes. But perhaps what is needed is an intelligent summary of the discussion for briefing and consideration by the IPT.
Colin
Yep, any volunteers ?
Doug
( Bernie? )
Colin Colenso said:
Sounds like a plan. I nominate Colin
Sure, once the committee has decided the appropriate remuneration packageshanesinnott said:Sounds like a plan. I nominate Colin
They Aren't BALLOONS
No remuneration, but I'll donate a package of condoms....
Doug
(better safe than sorry)
Colin Colenso said:Sure, once the committee has decided the appropriate remuneration package
No remuneration, but I'll donate a package of condoms....
Doug
(better safe than sorry)
Istead of huge payouts, have each venue 100K for first, 50K second and payout the top 32 so they can have a life. Once you create a base of real working players you've created your start position and beginning product. Have and end of year event with all the needed awards like Camel did a few years back. I know KT thinks way bigger from the beginning than us all, but it may be time to pull in the reins, the hor$e is way ahead of the cart.
I really liked the idea about % of winning chance for the players after each shot! That must be a brilliant move to catch some more viewers!
Another thing; I'm sitting here and watching the Grand Prix Aberdeen Snooker live at EuroSport right now, and then I realise that snooker is so more comfortable to watch than pool.
IPT should absolutely do some small changes:
Blue carpet under table, green cloth. Good for your eyes.
Should be yellow and red numbered balls, easier for non-pool-players to understand and watch the game.
In snooker it is really exciting to watch a good safetyshot replaced by another, so the IPT should change the rules so it makes it harder to run-out a rack. For example as someone else has said earlier, if you break and make the yellows (in my example) you have to shoot the yellows. Harder to run out AND it's understandable for the tv-audience too.
With some small changes I think it will be way more attractive as a tv-sport! (ok, the colours of the balls is not small change for us poolplayers, but the rest of the world wouldn't matter. If you play pool on bars in southern Europe it is only with red and yellow balls...)
Time-shot as in Mosconi-cup should also be used. It's kind of exciting when you see that a player has only 3 seconds left. "Will he make it? Come on, shoot, god damned!! Phuh, he made it..."
Another thing; I'm sitting here and watching the Grand Prix Aberdeen Snooker live at EuroSport right now, and then I realise that snooker is so more comfortable to watch than pool.
IPT should absolutely do some small changes:
Blue carpet under table, green cloth. Good for your eyes.
Should be yellow and red numbered balls, easier for non-pool-players to understand and watch the game.
In snooker it is really exciting to watch a good safetyshot replaced by another, so the IPT should change the rules so it makes it harder to run-out a rack. For example as someone else has said earlier, if you break and make the yellows (in my example) you have to shoot the yellows. Harder to run out AND it's understandable for the tv-audience too.
With some small changes I think it will be way more attractive as a tv-sport! (ok, the colours of the balls is not small change for us poolplayers, but the rest of the world wouldn't matter. If you play pool on bars in southern Europe it is only with red and yellow balls...)
Time-shot as in Mosconi-cup should also be used. It's kind of exciting when you see that a player has only 3 seconds left. "Will he make it? Come on, shoot, god damned!! Phuh, he made it..."
I agree with that thinking. Perhaps, if the total purse for all of the previous IPT tournaments were 50% less, and the entry fee for the qualifiers remained the same, the attendance would be as high, because the purse would have still dwarf any previous pool tournament, and The IPT would atleast have longer "staying power" (atleast 3-4 years) that would allow it more time to "rope in" corporate sponsors for the longeivity of the tour.
Some random thoughts.
1 Try to get live audiences
I don't know if this would work or not, perhaps some promoters here can comment on how difficult it is to get reasonable crowds to attend pool tourneys as spectators. Clearly TV has the potential to bring in more money than ticket sales, but if you get people attending, then maybe you can convert more people into pool fans, like grass roots marketing. It's all about growing the fan base.
2 Talk less about the money, more about the sport, prestige, and history
Pool has some history, although not as much prestige obviously as some other sports. The money, even the money KT put up is not going to impress a TV audience. Talking over and over about how big the (theoretical) prize fund is makes the whole thing look kind of low-class IMO. Poker's different, it's a game that revolves around betting money, and first place at WSOP is 10M or so if I'm not mistaken. People win over 500k in televised poker tourneys all the time, it's not like that's an earth-shattering number. Pool's not poker, it's a sport. I'm not saying don't mention the cash at all, but try to convey the prestige and history rather than the amount of cash.
3 Work with the community not against it
Instead of stomping all over the existing events, it would be cool to incorporate them into the IPT or whatever big pool tour exists. Events like the US Open and DCC already have a history, use that. Also, you can have more events that way, and also they won't all be exactly the same.
4 Scrap the round robin
Or, at least have the last 8 or 16 to do single elimination with longer races. Here's another idea. Have everyone play say 15 to 20 matches over the course of a week, and then periodically drop the players with the worst records, kind of like golf. Then at the end the top 8 or 16 can do a single elimination for the title. You could either match players up at random, or you could do it according to records, that way if you're 9-2 you play someone else who's also 9-2 so you get good matches, and it would be really tough to go undefeated. And, if you're 2-9, you get an easier match, so you won't really get screwed by the draw.
5 KT, stop being a jackass
Maybe I'm bashing, but it has to be said. Don't do stuff like get MS and LJJ to play for 150k and insist that MS is now the "real" world champion. Don't pretend that a lot of people bought the MS-LJJ DVD. Don't bash 9-ball constantly, and stop talking about the slow cloth, we got it. When people have comments or objections, don't reply with "that's why you're not a billionaire." Oh, and pay the players.
6 Get Gabe and Aaron back in the commentary booth
If people are going to watch pool, it really helps to have entertaining commentary. Sure they may have offended some people, maybe they can take it easy a little, but it was entertaining, funny and at the same intelligent and insightful. They didn't treat the audience like 8-year-olds, like you get on OLN a lot of times and also on ESPN.
7 Don't play just 8-ball
Change up the game sometimes as well as the conditions, slow vs fast cloth, get some variety.
1 Try to get live audiences
I don't know if this would work or not, perhaps some promoters here can comment on how difficult it is to get reasonable crowds to attend pool tourneys as spectators. Clearly TV has the potential to bring in more money than ticket sales, but if you get people attending, then maybe you can convert more people into pool fans, like grass roots marketing. It's all about growing the fan base.
2 Talk less about the money, more about the sport, prestige, and history
Pool has some history, although not as much prestige obviously as some other sports. The money, even the money KT put up is not going to impress a TV audience. Talking over and over about how big the (theoretical) prize fund is makes the whole thing look kind of low-class IMO. Poker's different, it's a game that revolves around betting money, and first place at WSOP is 10M or so if I'm not mistaken. People win over 500k in televised poker tourneys all the time, it's not like that's an earth-shattering number. Pool's not poker, it's a sport. I'm not saying don't mention the cash at all, but try to convey the prestige and history rather than the amount of cash.
3 Work with the community not against it
Instead of stomping all over the existing events, it would be cool to incorporate them into the IPT or whatever big pool tour exists. Events like the US Open and DCC already have a history, use that. Also, you can have more events that way, and also they won't all be exactly the same.
4 Scrap the round robin
Or, at least have the last 8 or 16 to do single elimination with longer races. Here's another idea. Have everyone play say 15 to 20 matches over the course of a week, and then periodically drop the players with the worst records, kind of like golf. Then at the end the top 8 or 16 can do a single elimination for the title. You could either match players up at random, or you could do it according to records, that way if you're 9-2 you play someone else who's also 9-2 so you get good matches, and it would be really tough to go undefeated. And, if you're 2-9, you get an easier match, so you won't really get screwed by the draw.
5 KT, stop being a jackass
Maybe I'm bashing, but it has to be said. Don't do stuff like get MS and LJJ to play for 150k and insist that MS is now the "real" world champion. Don't pretend that a lot of people bought the MS-LJJ DVD. Don't bash 9-ball constantly, and stop talking about the slow cloth, we got it. When people have comments or objections, don't reply with "that's why you're not a billionaire." Oh, and pay the players.
6 Get Gabe and Aaron back in the commentary booth
If people are going to watch pool, it really helps to have entertaining commentary. Sure they may have offended some people, maybe they can take it easy a little, but it was entertaining, funny and at the same intelligent and insightful. They didn't treat the audience like 8-year-olds, like you get on OLN a lot of times and also on ESPN.
7 Don't play just 8-ball
Change up the game sometimes as well as the conditions, slow vs fast cloth, get some variety.
ineedaspot said:
TAP TAP TAP
The money is only interesting for the players, not for the audience.
We want to see great pool, not a suitcase of money. (which KT take back when the camera is off)
And a TAP TAP TAP to boot.Roy Steffensen said:
The overblown hype around money is sickening. It assumes everyone is as blatantly greed-driven as KT himself. Just note all the tag lines "Biggest payday in pool history", "first ever chance for pool players to GET RICH". Like all get rich quick schemes, this one also reeked of BS.
Pocket billiards is a GREAT GAME. Period. It is full of telegenic characters, it involves skill, and it can draw an audience if marketed correctly. The only thing KT marketed was CASH, to the players. He didn't do jack to extend the reach, and cultivate appreciation for the cerebral aspects of the GAME among a new crop of fans. He was going for qualifier dollars, not market mindshare, and it fell down around his ears.
The technology for making the game interesting is here: advanced video display, light pen commentaries, superimposed ball labels, etc. When Sigel isn't verbally wanking, he can actually be a very astute commentator. More commentators with credentials as accomplished players need to be brought in, and a more interesting rotation of hosts would be a big plus. KT himself is a huge downer as an announcer, because he's so clueless and self-aggrandizing. Jeanette and Gabe can both call a mean match, and have enough depth of knowledge and fun personalities to make them compelling commentators -- they, and others need to be given some camera time too.
Islandboss...<<because the purse would have still dwarf any previous pool tournament>>
I REALLY think that KT felt that the HUGE prize money combined with 8 Ball (America's preferred pool game) were going to be the central elements in hyping the popularity of pro pool matches...sort of like what happened with the Hold 'Em craze. Of course, he was wrong.
Why else would he have thought that HIS pro matches would get any more TV time...ad money...public awareness than, say, the Mosconi Cup?
I for one dont' fault the SHOT that the IPT took nor do I fault the fact that it is failing...or has failed. What I fault is the LYING that has accompanied the whole process.
Regards,
Jim
I REALLY think that KT felt that the HUGE prize money combined with 8 Ball (America's preferred pool game) were going to be the central elements in hyping the popularity of pro pool matches...sort of like what happened with the Hold 'Em craze. Of course, he was wrong.
Why else would he have thought that HIS pro matches would get any more TV time...ad money...public awareness than, say, the Mosconi Cup?
I for one dont' fault the SHOT that the IPT took nor do I fault the fact that it is failing...or has failed. What I fault is the LYING that has accompanied the whole process.
Regards,
Jim
cueticue...<<The overblown hype around money is sickening. It assumes everyone is as blatantly greed-driven as KT himself.>>
With respect, I disagree. Below I have posted the prize money for the 2005 World Poker Championship. As you will see, the first prize is BIGGER than what the IPT offered.
In addition, I call your attention to the HUGE popularity of such insiped TV game shows as Who Wants to be a Millionaire and its NUMEROUS predecessor shows throughout tv history...the audiences for which would have been somewhere between slim and none without the huge prize money.
I am not justifying the public's fascination with big payday TV events...I am just stating that it clearly exists...and that the "dynamics" of the contests makes little or no difference. NO ONE CARES what the answers to the tv show questions are. What they get off on is the EMOTION of the moment.
And Texas Hold 'Em??? Give me a break. I'd rather watch grass grow..and so would most other people WITHOUT THE HUGE PRIZE MONEY.
Regards,
Jim
2005 WSOP PRIZE MONEY
Final Table Place Name Prize
1st Farzad ‘Freddy’ Bonyadi $594,960
2nd Lars Bonding $317,625
3rd Glynn Beebe $194,305
4th Robert Doyle $170,015
5th Mayen Grigorian $145,730
6th Joe Zappia $121,440
7th Jason Tate $97,150
8th K.J. Jordan $72,865
9th Larry Watson $48,575
10th Marvin Duarte $26,715
With respect, I disagree. Below I have posted the prize money for the 2005 World Poker Championship. As you will see, the first prize is BIGGER than what the IPT offered.
In addition, I call your attention to the HUGE popularity of such insiped TV game shows as Who Wants to be a Millionaire and its NUMEROUS predecessor shows throughout tv history...the audiences for which would have been somewhere between slim and none without the huge prize money.
I am not justifying the public's fascination with big payday TV events...I am just stating that it clearly exists...and that the "dynamics" of the contests makes little or no difference. NO ONE CARES what the answers to the tv show questions are. What they get off on is the EMOTION of the moment.
And Texas Hold 'Em??? Give me a break. I'd rather watch grass grow..and so would most other people WITHOUT THE HUGE PRIZE MONEY.
Regards,
Jim
2005 WSOP PRIZE MONEY
Final Table Place Name Prize
1st Farzad ‘Freddy’ Bonyadi $594,960
2nd Lars Bonding $317,625
3rd Glynn Beebe $194,305
4th Robert Doyle $170,015
5th Mayen Grigorian $145,730
6th Joe Zappia $121,440
7th Jason Tate $97,150
8th K.J. Jordan $72,865
9th Larry Watson $48,575
10th Marvin Duarte $26,715