Super Billiards Ban from Playing!

[franko]

Know

I never saw Greg play but I do know the man, and he is a man of character.He would never enter a tournament if he felt he were sneaking into it, let alone bring his family and friends along. This shows that there are to many gray areas in Pool.There needs to be a clear way to define a Pro from a Amateur . That was a terrible way to start what should have been a fun weekend.

 

[sjharr]

It's unfortunate the way the staff handled this particular disqualification at the SBE.

I would agree that a bit more research should be put into determining a players status for an amateur event. All it takes is a quick Google search, which apparently the SBE staff performed after the op had already funded his trip.

That being said, it seems from the connotations used in the op's post, ie..."snitch", "dropping the dime", "cry babies"; that he might have been expecting to finish very high in the amateur event, maybe even win it.

He even brought in family to watch him "pull one over" on the cry baby amateurs. From my point of view, the op got caught with his hand in the cookie jar and is a bit bitter that it didn't play out the way he had envisioned.

Better luck next time sir.

Steve H.

 

[hang-the-9]

Probably any of the people that can finish in a top 10 of one of those 200 entry amateur tournaments has a chance of chasing in any of the big regional tours.

They'd have to wait to see who the top finishers are in their tournament, then take away their winnings and give them to the lower level people since the winners are "pro" players.

 

[voiceofreason]

There is no tour, no organization for pro pool. BCA used to have a list of players, but it was outdated and nobody updated it. Now BCA shuns professional pool, it seems, yet they are our representative to the WPA. Go figure!

Professional pool is not recognsed by the WPA either.

Allen needs to hire a subject-matter expert when accepting entry fees for these tournaments next year, someone who actually knows who's who. The staff he hires probably are not familiar with players from all regions around the country, much less the world. This is something that Allen could improve upon, having the names examined BEFOREHAND, before accepting the fees. If he's going to have an amateur tournament, he needs to have competent staff running the show, meaning looking at the names BEFORE accepting the entry fees.

I disagree. If the event is advertised as amateur only and a cue sport professional enters it can be discovered at any point.

Consider.

A player called Shane Van Boening enters the same event. It is not until this player turns up that they could actually discover with any certainty whether it is the famous amateur player from Idaho or the lesser known chap who plays in the Mosconi Cup.

Handling it this way, what happened to this poor guy, was terrible, to turn him away. I would have been LIVID.

Yet he could just as easily checked his own eligibility to enter at the time of entering.

Why did he not?

As a former(?) professional pool player, would this not be sensible?

 

[voiceofreason]

Is there a link to the entry criteria for these events that define "Pro"?

Good question. It is certainly defined here in the UK by most tournament organisers.

It would seem to me that something like this is either specifically spelled out, or the organizers were out of line to a level of reasonableness that would offer you a civil case for costs.

Now, if it is spelled out specifically, it would be the players responsibility to adhere to those rules and if it were discovered that the rules of entry were broken, then it wouldn't matter if you were disqualified during a match.

Either way,the written rules or lack thereof have the answer.

Good point well made. Do we have any kind of links to the entry forms?

 

[voiceofreason]

We might not have a pro tour to determine status, but there is a solution.

It's not perfect, but it isSIMPLE

All a tournament director has to do is look at the previous 2 year's earnings. If a player was in the top X in either year, then they are not eligible to play. So if a player was in the top X in 2012, but not in 2013. Then they can't play in 2014. But if they aren't in the top X for 2014, then they could play in 2015.

Similar has been done here by certain organisers with some success.

Also, if a player finishes top 3 in the amateur event, then they can't play the following year.

I don't agree with this. Amateur is amateur and someone is surely entitled to be the best and maintain that status?

 

[voiceofreason]

Someone mentioned pros chasing amateur events for the money.

The simple, long term, solution is to remove money as a prize from amateur events.

 

[JAM]

Someone mentioned pros chasing amateur events for the money.

The simple, long term, solution is to remove money as a prize from amateur events.

I don't know, but for some reason, I am reminded of the Boston Tea Party with your advice. :grin-square:

 

[naji]

Is there really no structure to professional pool in the USA? Surely a player is either a professional or he is not?

Here in the UK there is a professional tour, which you can join as an amateur and if you get to a certain ranking on the tour, you are offered professional status. If you take it you are then allowed to play in the professional events and you are classed as a professional for the purposes of amateur events.

This status lasts for tow years after you resign from the professional tour - to stop sand bagging.

Not sure if you mean Snooker or pool in UK. If snooker then you cannot compare, snooker is a game of score, rarely luck involved, and amtures usually cannot score high break and avoids playing pros. Pool has luck factor an A player could beat a pro in a short race. Therefore, there is no cut point or measurements to go by, and the only thing is people from the pool room that can tell of a player's skill.

 

[JAM]

Professional pool is not recognsed by the WPA either.


I disagree. If the event is advertised as amateur only and a cue sport professional enters it can be discovered at any point.

Consider.

A player called Shane Van Boening enters the same event. It is not until this player turns up that they could actually discover with any certainty whether it is the famous amateur player from Idaho or the lesser known chap who plays in the Mosconi Cup.



Yet he could just as easily checked his own eligibility to enter at the time of entering.

Why did he not?

As a former(?) professional pool player, would this not be sensible?

It's a small pool community in America. Most people who follow pool know who's who. A subject-matter expert should have been consulted for each name on that amateur list BEFOREHAND, so as to avoid this from happening.

That would be my constructive criticism for the SBE to take under review for next year.

 

[miramachine]

http://www.superbilliardsexpo.com/results_AmGuidelines/Turning-Stone-August-2013-Results.html


I can't see how this is a problem. The list is pretty cut and dry on the SBE website on who can and can't play.

 

[gxman]

What about Brian Parks? The guy has won 3 consecutive APA amatuer titles.

How does he still get to play under amateur status?

 

[miramachine]

Dany Normandin finished 3rd in the same turning stone event that Greg finished 17-24 in and I see that Dany played in the open amature this year, he won his first three matches and lost to Mastermaker. He was in bracket #15.

 

[voiceofreason]

Not sure if you mean Snooker or pool in UK. If snooker then you cannot compare, snooker is a game of score, rarely luck involved, and amtures usually cannot score high break and avoids playing pros. Pool has luck factor an A player could beat a pro in a short race. Therefore, there is no cut point or measurements to go by, and the only thing is people from the pool room that can tell of a player's skill.

I was on about pool.

 

[Ken_4fun]

One side of me doesn't have a problem with it. The other says I see guys who are pro's and shouldn't be aloud in it every year and these are guys who make there living playing pool ...allen knows they do.. and still lets them play. I won't call these people out but one is a friend of mine. He finished in the finals a few years ago. Plays nuts up against shuff and other local pro players in the pro am tournaments. It's just so damn hard in pool to know who is a pro and who isn't with no real pro tour. In my opinion if they thought you were pro caliber but neglected to tell you that before you got there they should have let you play but told you this is your last year in the amateur. The expo isn't a local tournament you drive 50 miles or less to. People may expended a lot of time and money getting there so you should be told a head of time if your not eligible.

personally I hate the tournament it self. I pay to play in it because if your going to the expo you might as well but between it being single elimination and pro caliber players being loud to play in it I don't expect to cash let alone win.

The word is allowed.

UGH.

Ken

 

[voiceofreason]

http://www.superbilliardsexpo.com/results_AmGuidelines/Turning-Stone-August-2013-Results.html


I can't see how this is a problem. The list is pretty cut and dry on the SBE website on who can and can't play.

No it is not. That merely states who are definitely not allowed to play. It does not include players that cannot play for other qualification factors

 

[RFranklin]

Inelligible List - Your on it

While I think that they probably should have been able to alert you some time before you entered/paid and the event, this list is right on the website for inelligle players. You are number three which is pretty hard to miss. I am not saying that it is justified but debating that with Allen month in advance would have saved you some cash.

http://www.superbilliardsexpo.com/results_AmGuidelines/2014-excluded-players.html

 

[DAVE_M]

http://www.superbilliardsexpo.com/results_AmGuidelines/Turning-Stone-August-2013-Results.html


I can't see how this is a problem. The list is pretty cut and dry on the SBE website on who can and can't play.

Good find.

Now the question is, was this available before or after the incident?

 

[miramachine]

No it is not. That merely states who are definitely not allowed to play. It does not include players that cannot play for other qualification factors

Sorry, I meant that it is cut and dry for the people listed. Which would be Greg.. Don't get me wrong, I feel for him and feel bad that he couldn't play and lost money but his name is on a list on the SBE website that clearly says he can't play.. Having said that, I don't know how Dany Normandin slipped through the cracks and played in the amature when he finished 3rd in the Turning Stone.

 

[miramachine]

It's even getting better... Danny Mastermaker is on the list of players who can't play and he played in the amature as well. lol. There is 2 players, I'm sure there is more if you keep looking.