SVB-Fedor.... Texas Open

Interesting to see the 2 ball racked in the back in every break. It looked like a few racks SVB had that dialed in to control it to come 3 or 4 rails to park in front of the side pocket. Hope this doesn’t become a thing.
Funny you mention this. This was a “thing” a few years ago. If you remember, a few years back it became one of the de facto new changes that the 2 would always be racked in the back. Then Sky Woodard, Max Lechner, FSR and others “cracked the code” and discovered a way to break to make the 2 do exactly what SVB was doing today.

See that’s the thing, since the late 80’s they’ve tried break boxes, racking the 2 in the back, racking the 9 on the spot, combinations of some or all of the above. Every time, good players do what they do, they work on it and figure it out. It used to be the wing ball, now it’s the 1 in the side, on and on.

Funny thing, is the break is crucial in all disciplines, 9,10 ball, 1 pocket, 14:1. It is the mastery of the break that makes champions, because this sport is truly about controlling the table.
 
Funny you mention this. This was a “thing” a few years ago. If you remember, a few years back it became one of the de facto new changes that the 2 would always be racked in the back. Then Sky Woodard, Max Lechner, FSR and others “cracked the code” and discovered a way to break to make the 2 do exactly what SVB was doing today.

See that’s the thing, since the late 80’s they’ve tried break boxes, racking the 2 in the back, racking the 9 on the spot, combinations of some or all of the above. Every time, good players do what they do, they work on it and figure it out. It used to be the wing ball, now it’s the 1 in the side, on and on.

Funny thing, is the break is crucial in all disciplines, 9,10 ball, 1 pocket, 14:1. It is the mastery of the break that makes champions, because this sport is truly about controlling the table.
I get the evolution. It’s happened over time right in front of our eyes. There were reasons each step of the way. Some of those reasons stood the test of time and some of them didn’t.

It’s real fun for a player to exploit a format flaw and call it “mastery”. Ask Corey in 2001 or Filler at this year’s Derby. But once everyone is savvy you have unwatchable events.

And in this day and age you have fans (and ideally promoters too) that are capable of spotting these issues in their early stages because this game has become so mature through time. You can’t go backwards or try to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

We are living in 2025 right now. Not every event needs to be a Matchroom clone. But any promoter should at least take notice of how many spectacular moments they’re creating back-to-back-to-back. Something as simple as “the 2 ball needs to be in one of the three wings and cannot be consistently racked in the same position repeatedly” is worth it.

Because yes, the break is a skill worthy of mastery. That is a big part of where champions are made. But as an industry we are trying to avoid players controlling the break to the level of having the same look at the same starting shot every time they break. We are trying to bring a bit more luck and randomness into it. Especially for the rotation games because they’ve seen the worst of it. We know bigger moments come when the break is met with a variety of runouts, jumps, kicks, safes, and pushes. As fans we get more “pool” for our buck.
 
Funny you mention this. This was a “thing” a few years ago. If you remember, a few years back it became one of the de facto new changes that the 2 would always be racked in the back. Then Sky Woodard, Max Lechner, FSR and others “cracked the code” and discovered a way to break to make the 2 do exactly what SVB was doing today.

See that’s the thing, since the late 80’s they’ve tried break boxes, racking the 2 in the back, racking the 9 on the spot, combinations of some or all of the above. Every time, good players do what they do, they work on it and figure it out. It used to be the wing ball, now it’s the 1 in the side, on and on.

Funny thing, is the break is crucial in all disciplines, 9,10 ball, 1 pocket, 14:1. It is the mastery of the break that makes champions, because this sport is truly about controlling the table.
Lots of people will say the bigger pockets and winner break format make the game too easy and no fun to watch.

I am the opposite.

If they think it is too easy, extend the number of games in a match rather than make it harder to pocket balls.

If it is easier to pocket balls, it should speed up the time of play and counter the argument that more games in a match take too much time.
 
Because it's a festival of pool more than a serious competition.
That said. How many very recent WNT finals have been absolute clash of the titan storied moments in pool? Two World Championships in a row. Two US Opens in a row. Even the most recent Florida Open. Even if you ignore their production and just take the matches on their own merits alone. You can say the format as a whole helped produced that. And the players get the credit first and foremost. But the rules (aside from “forceful break”) stayed out of the way if not helped thumb the scales to produce those moments.
 
Lots of people will say the bigger pockets and winner break format make the game too easy and no fun to watch.

I am the opposite.

If they think it is too easy, extend the number of games in a match rather than make it harder to pocket balls.

If it is easier to pocket balls, it should speed up the time of play and counter the argument that more games in a match take too much time.

well, i don't agree with you on allowing a soft break, but i do agree on at least testing a 20 second shot clock on a 4.5" table event. it will favor certain players obviously, but not necessarily just the suspected ones (filler, jayson etc).
 
And its fun. That's the difference - the best players and a fun atmosphere.

"Real pool" boring. Church is more fun
I wouldn't call the Europeans approach to this event, fun. I like the Americans, they are not as serious and seem like, they have more fun. way more laidback.
 
I get the evolution. It’s happened over time right in front of our eyes. There were reasons each step of the way. Some of those reasons stood the test of time and some of them didn’t.

It’s real fun for a player to exploit a format flaw and call it “mastery”. Ask Corey in 2001 or Filler at this year’s Derby. But once everyone is savvy you have unwatchable events.

And in this day and age you have fans (and ideally promoters too) that are capable of spotting these issues in their early stages because this game has become so mature through time. You can’t go backwards or try to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

We are living in 2025 right now. Not every event needs to be a Matchroom clone. But any promoter should at least take notice of how many spectacular moments they’re creating back-to-back-to-back. Something as simple as “the 2 ball needs to be in one of the three wings and cannot be consistently racked in the same position repeatedly” is worth it.

Because yes, the break is a skill worthy of mastery. That is a big part of where champions are made. But as an industry we are trying to avoid players controlling the break to the level of having the same look at the same starting shot every time they break. We are trying to bring a bit more luck and randomness into it. Especially for the rotation games because they’ve seen the worst of it. We know bigger moments come when the break is met with a variety of runouts, jumps, kicks, safes, and pushes. As fans we get more “pool” for our buck.
Lots of people will say the bigger pockets and winner break format make the game too easy and no fun to watch.

I am the opposite.

If they think it is too easy, extend the number of games in a match rather than make it harder to pocket balls.

If it is easier to pocket balls, it should speed up the time of play and counter the argument that more games in a match take too much time.
Now, here are two different people with 2 entirely different opinions of a situation. Matt, you call what Corey and Joshua did in the examples you bring, “exploiting a flaw in a format”. I’m not in agreement with that. You have an idea of what you find “watchable and unwatchable”. It seems from the gist of your posts, that you prefer a player not be able to utilize the skills they have developed to control the table and dominate a match. That you find a display of talent leading to large packages unwatchable, or at the very least, not as appealing as watching a match full of safety’s, jumps, etc. more entertaining.

Hawaiian Eye on the other hand, likes watching a player exhibit their skills they’ve honed. Those matches where all the work a player has put into their game all comes together and they control the table and dominate a match.

I’m of the same opinion as Hawaiian Eye. Some of the most memorable matches I’ve seen in person, or watched through a stream or video, are matches where players gave a dominating performance.

Efren’s 9 pack against Bustamante after starting being down 3-1 in the WPC. Corey’s performance against Mika in the 11-0 final. Watching Jason Shaw completely dismantle Mika at Turning Stone in a little over 20 minutes, leading to a hall of fame player throwing his cue to the ground and pouting like a child. Efren’s match against Wetch at the DCC where Wetch got 3 shots the whole match. To me, like Hawaiian Eye, these are the most watchable type of matches.

It’s a simple difference of how each person perceives it. A good example is 2 of the matches I note above. Jimmy Wetch had someone say some kind words after Efren bulldozed him and Jimmy just responded, “he played great”. When Jason dismantled Mika, I believe Mika embarrassed himself and the sport, sulking, throwing cues, demonstrative displays for the camera. He’s always been known for that, he did it again in last years DCC when Pia Filler played almost perfect and handed him his ass.

The moral of the story? Some prefer pool in its classic form, some prefer it to be altered, to change the game, to make it into something they like, what you refer to as “the evolution of the game”.

Who’s right? I guess it all depends on what camp you’re in. Some like fast paced action and 9,10 ball in their original forms provides that. For those such as yourself, the discipline needs to change, 15 ball “61” rotation takes the break out of it and leads to seeing all the little nuances you like, the “more pool for your buck” you note.
 
We are living in 2025 right now. Not every event needs to be a Matchroom clone. But any promoter should at least take notice of how many spectacular moments they’re creating back-to-back-to-back. Something as simple as “the 2 ball needs to be in one of the three wings and cannot be consistently racked in the same position repeatedly” is worth it.

Because yes, the break is a skill worthy of mastery. That is a big part of where champions are made. But as an industry we are trying to avoid players controlling the break to the level of having the same look at the same starting shot every time they break. We are trying to bring a bit more luck and randomness into it. Especially for the rotation games because they’ve seen the worst of it. We know bigger moments come when the break is met with a variety of runouts, jumps, kicks, safes, and pushes. As fans we get more “pool” for our buck.

It’s real fun for a player to exploit a format flaw and call it “mastery”. Ask Corey in 2001 or Filler at this year’s Derby. But once everyone is savvy you have unwatchable events.
All the top Matchroom guys ran packages galore at the 2025 Derby City 9ball.

Any suggestion that Filler figured out something that the others did not with the rack/racking is nonsense, and SVB said the same after Filler trounced him in the quarterfinal.

The real problem at the Derby City 9ball was that they did not set up the tables correctly. For an event to carry Matchroom points, it is normally necessary to use the Matchroom break box, but (as you will see if you look at any 9ball match from the 2025 Derby) a much wider break box was used. The good folks at Diamond are well aware of this and I am sure the mistake will not be repeated n 2026.

On this forum, and to a lesser extent in the Billiards press, there are many who have tried to devalue any achievements of Filler since his rift with Matchroom. I know you mean no harm or disrespect here, but let's not pile on here and patronize the many who have turned on him.

Filler has two golds and a silver in the last four Derby City 9ball events. He's the man to beat in the event, and it has nothing to do with his figuring out the break any better than others.
 
We almost always exaggerate what actually happens in these one-sided matches. I've been guilty of it myself. The losing player almost always has at least a couple of opportunities that they fail to capitalize on. This match was no different. The arguably - greatest player in the world had several chances in this match. One of them was a push he passed back to Shane. Shane proceeded to pocket the ball and run out. Then it took some rolls in both directions to get the final result.

What's the problem? These types of results, while not indicative of both players ability, are nonetheless good for the game.

**Edit to add***
Of course I'm talking about these results being fine if happening rarely. From the beginning, I've said Matchroom will need to stay a step ahead of the players in regards to the break.
 
  • Love
Reactions: sjm
All the top Matchroom guys ran packages galore at the 2025 Derby City 9ball.

Any suggestion that Filler figured out something that the others did not with the rack/racking is nonsense, and SVB said the same after Filler trounced him in the quarterfinal.

The real problem at the Derby City 9ball was that they did not set up the tables correctly. For an event to carry Matchroom points, it is normally necessary to use the Matchroom break box, but (as you will see if you look at any 9ball match from the 2025 Derby) a much wider break box was used. The good folks at Diamond are well aware of this and I am sure the mistake will not be repeated n 2026.

On this forum, and to a lesser extent in the Billiards press, there are many who have tried to devalue any achievements of Filler since his rift with Matchroom. I know you mean no harm or disrespect here, but let's not pile on here and patronize the many who have turned on him.

Filler has two golds and a silver in the last four Derby City 9ball events. He's the man to beat in the event, and it has nothing to do with his figuring out the break any better than others.
I’m not piling on the player. I’m piling on promoters that leave holes in their format that allows players to pocket a guaranteed ball, control the cueball, and control the opening shot on the remaining lowest ball on the table. Sure Filler played perfect after the break to seal the deal. Any and every achievement made in those conditions gets an asterisk from me. In my mind any event that doesn’t structure its rules to keep up with the times loses some stature. I used to think of Derby, Turning Stone and Texas Open major US Professional Pool events. And these days they’ve dropped in stature to something more akin of “time honored ProAms”. And maybe it’s not all their fault. The bar has been raised and they didn’t rise with it. So they are less now merely by comparison. But overlooking format issues doesn’t help their case.
 
I’m not piling on the player. I’m piling on promoters that leave holes in their format that allows players to pocket a guaranteed ball, control the cueball, and control the opening shot on the remaining lowest ball on the table. Sure Filler played perfect after the break to seal the deal. Any and every achievement made in those conditions gets an asterisk from me. In my mind any event that doesn’t structure its rules to keep up with the times loses some stature. I used to think of Derby, Turning Stone and Texas Open major US Professional Pool events. And these days they’ve dropped in stature to something more akin of “time honored ProAms”. And maybe it’s not all their fault. The bar has been raised and they didn’t rise with it. So they are less now merely by comparison. But overlooking format issues doesn’t help their case.
I understand your point, and nobody has ever suggested that the Derby, Turning Stone or the Texas Open are majors.

The suggestion that the lesser events must follow suit with the changes at the majors, however, does not make sense to me. The most often cited individual sports on the forum are golf and tennis. In tennis, with the best of five set format, the test at the majors is a much stiffer one. Must the lesser events switch to five sets to keep up with the majors? In golf, the majors, on average, have longer rough than the other events, to ensure that the test is stiffer. Must the Travelers Golf Championship grow the rough longer to keep up with the conditions expected at golf's majors?

It is customary for minor events to have easier playing conditions than the majors in our sport and others, and I believe that it serves the best interests of our sport.

Like you, I'd welcome greater standardization of playing conditions, but we have never had it in our sport and, in the meantime, let's try to enjoy what we've got rather than frown on events that offer a lesser challenge and a lower level of competition.
 
I understand your point, and nobody has ever suggested that the Derby, Turning Stone or the Texas Open are majors.

The suggestion that the lesser events must follow suit with the changes at the majors, however, does not make sense to me. The most often cited individual sports on the forum are golf and tennis. In tennis, with the best of five set format, the test at the majors is a much stiffer one. Must the lesser events switch to five sets to keep up with the majors? In golf, the majors, on average, have longer rough than the other events, to ensure that the test is stiffer. Must the Travelers Golf Championship grow the rough longer to keep up with the conditions expected at golf's majors?

It is customary for minor events to have easier playing conditions than the majors in our sport and others, and I believe that it serves the best interests of our sport.

Like you, I'd welcome greater standardization of playing conditions, but we have never had it in our sport and, in the meantime, let's try to enjoy what we've got rather than frown on events that offer a lesser challenge and a lower level of competition.

I meant "major US events" like with a lower case m. I'm not saying they're Majors like how tennis and golf have Majors. Certainly not comparing to any of the world championships, WNT opens, or Predator opens. At that next tier down there are some annual events that carry meaning to US pool. They have legacy, history and brand. They've been the proving grounds that help develop our US talent. In the terms of feast and famine, they were around in our famine eras. And as we enter a feast era, they are getting crowded out a bit.

I really would like to see the Texas Open mean more. It's always been a great event in the great state of Texas where it's local players could enjoy a primetime experience amidst some quality professional players. It has respectable money added ($20k) for the tier its in. I just want it to mean more for pro pool than it currently does. I like seeing SVB, Fedor, Vitaliy, Jesus, Wolford, Morra, etc. there. And I know each player has their reasons for not attending. Just would also love to see it be a WNT ranking event to help draw more to it. I'd like to see Sky, Billy, Tyler, Lukas, Oscar, Sam, etc. all chasing ranking points. And some other international talent like Gomez, Garcia, Corteza, and maybe a couple others in the mix that normally wouldn't miss it. Its not just about standardization of playing conditions. I'd like to see the event move forward in stature but it kinda feels like a backslide. The break format was just an easy detail I don't like seeing overlooked.

Because if you were to rank the significance of an event like this to US pro pool, is starting to fall a bit. Events like Super Billiards Expo, Battle of the Bull, Rally in the Shenendoah Valley, etc. are feeling much more significant when you weigh the events for their own merits. Where the storied history of the Texas Open really feels like it should sit a little higher in that list than it does. Maybe if it tightens up its rules, becomes a ranking event, and runs right before Matchroom runs the US Open in Texas then it'll all turn on a dime back to the right direction. Or maybe it embraces an identity as a minor US regional ProAm.

But this “major US event” vs. “regional US ProAm” identity is the same conversation I’d have about the Derby 9-ball and Turning Stone. I just desire to see them elevate a degree. Or maybe I just need to lower my expectations and hopes and just pay less attention to these events moving forward.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top