SVB's Mosconi Facebook post

[MatchroomPool]

Why do you, insist on promoting training for the US players outside of our country? Equal and fair requirements are needed. If you want the potential US prospects to travel to Europe for a training session, is the Europe potential team required to go to the US? No they are not. Your ignorance for where the problem lies is the issue.

European players are now leading the way with experience and skills due to the hugely successful EuroTour. Where is the US equivalent? Stop this nonsense of paying for potential US players to go to Europe. Use that money to promote and host better quality tournaments in the US. Get engaged with the community, not your current ‘I’m above you all’ stance.

First of all, the entire programme for the US team is the responsibility of the captain, Johan Ruijsink, as he is the one charged with getting a result in December.

What the European team do in preparation for the event doesn't appear to be the issue on the basis that they win the Mosconi Cup each year with what seems to be a minimum of effort.

I'm not sure the budget for training expenses would cover much of a tournament, but that said tournaments like the World Series in the USA, which on the face of it fit the bill, just aren't attended by American players in any great numbers.

Most of the MC training is inside the USA. There is an expenses paid trip to Russia to compete in a major international tournament against players from Europe and the rest of the world, which I would assume is a good thing, and then a training camp in Holland where pool is treated as a sport, which again I would hope would also be a good thing for the team.

Whilst we have a vested interest in the Mosconi Cup, we aren't responsible for the overall fortunes of American pool, although we have shown some commitment by taking over the US Open.

 

[lfigueroa]

Having attended several MCs, my opinion is that SVB is in an impossible position.

First, every year he has to watch his teammates commit rank amateur errors in their play. That’s gotta bring you down.

Second, as the best US player, as Captain America and all that, the abuse heaped on him by the Euros is unbelievable. And even worse, are the absurd, ridiculous, assine (though well intentioned) expectations thrown at him every time he approaches the table. “Go get em, Shane!” “Run em, Shane!” “Time to go to work, Shane!” Never mind that a European opponent has left him frozen to the back of a ball, or his teammate has gotten completely out of line and left him an impossible shot. It has to be back breaking.

In any case, until the rest of the US squad raises their game, we got no shot with or without him on board. Maybe SVB just needs a break.

Lou Figueroa

 

[decent dennis]

First of all, the entire programme for the US team is the responsibility of the captain, Johan Ruijsink, as he is the one charged with getting a result in December.

What the European team do in preparation for the event doesn't appear to be the issue on the basis that they win the Mosconi Cup each year with what seems to be a minimum of effort.

I'm not sure the budget for training expenses would cover much of a tournament, but that said tournaments like the World Series in the USA, which on the face of it fit the bill, just aren't attended by American players in any great numbers.

Most of the MC training is inside the USA. There is an expenses paid trip to Russia to compete in a major international tournament against players from Europe and the rest of the world, which I would assume is a good thing, and then a training camp in Holland where pool is treated as a sport, which again I would hope would also be a good thing for the team.

Whilst we have a vested interest in the Mosconi Cup, we aren't responsible for the overall fortunes of American pool, although we have shown some commitment by taking over the US Open.

There it is "programme", culprit found.

 

[marek]

Maybe because we need it.


Maybe because they don't need it.


Exactly whose problem is this?


Seriously? You missed the news about the US Open?

Amen:grin:

 

[lorider]

Maybe because we need it.


Maybe because they don't need it.


Exactly whose problem is this?


Seriously? You missed the news about the US Open?

Bingo, bingo , bingo , aaaaand bingo !

 

[West Point 1987]

Are you saying "each player plays his opponent 11 races to 5" for each match?

If that is the case, then I'd say the "better" player would more than likely win the match.

Shane v. Economopoulos, MC '14, Nick wins 5-2 to cement the Cup that year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpCplV1ylEc

Meanwhile, later that year (I think like three weeks later) Shane accepts Nick's invite to play him a race to 50 10 Ball match in Athens...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3YSOu_ew4M&t=11s

Spoiler Alert: The difference is stunning. SVB takes it down 50-21. Probably the best rotation display ever filmed, he ran away with it early.

 

[nine_ball6970]

Shane v. Economopoulos, MC '14, Nick wins 5-2 to cement the Cup that year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpCplV1ylEc

Meanwhile, later that year (I think like three weeks later) Shane accepts Nick's invite to play him a race to 50 10 Ball match in Athens...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3YSOu_ew4M&t=11s

Spoiler Alert: The difference is stunning. SVB takes it down 50-21. Probably the best rotation display ever filmed, he ran away with it early.

I would be interested to see the Fargorate for every player using only games played in Mosconi Cups and compare to their overall rating. Both America and Europe excluding Doubles.

 

[MahnaMahna]

Having attended several MCs, my opinion is that SVB is in an impossible position.

First, every year he has to watch his teammates commit rank amateur errors in their play. That’s gotta bring you down.

Second, as the best US player, as Captain America and all that, the abuse heaped on him by the Euros is unbelievable. And even worse, are the absurd, ridiculous, assine (though well intentioned) expectations thrown at him every time he approaches the table. “Go get em, Shane!” “Run em, Shane!” “Time to go to work, Shane!” Never mind that a European opponent has left him frozen to the back of a ball, or his teammate has gotten completely out of line and left him an impossible shot. It has to be back breaking.

In any case, until the rest of the US squad raises their game, we got no shot with or without him on board. Maybe SVB just needs a break.

Lou Figueroa

And now we have determined the real reason USA loses. Stay home Lou, you ruin everything.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Shane v. Economopoulos, MC '14, Nick wins 5-2 to cement the Cup that year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpCplV1ylEc

Meanwhile, later that year (I think like three weeks later) Shane accepts Nick's invite to play him a race to 50 10 Ball match in Athens...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3YSOu_ew4M&t=11s

Spoiler Alert: The difference is stunning. SVB takes it down 50-21. Probably the best rotation display ever filmed, he ran away with it early.

Then the following year Shane got drilled by Ruslan Chinahov in a race to 30

 

[PhilosopherKing]

What kind of shoes do you wear? They must be fantastic since you have to stand all day, no way you can sit down with balls that size!

With all these bigmouths running around, if I ran Matchroom the USA would be out immediately and the Pinoys would be in, end of story.

America is meaningless except for Shane in the world of pool anyway and the MC has his number.
Jason

Why do you keep suggesting that Matchroom should make what would possibly be the biggest business blunder in pool history?

You do what they're doing and try to rehabilitate and grow the American market.

It's a tough situation for them.

 

[jasonlaus]

Why do you keep suggesting that Matchroom should make what would possibly be the biggest business blunder in pool history?

You do what they're doing and try to rehabilitate and grow the American market.

It's a tough situation for them.

Blunder? How's that?

The USA pool scene for pros has been dead for years, plus most amateurs already know everything - just ask them.

Nobody watches pool in America period. They get extremely excited(like they cured cancer) when they get 3,000 views on a FREE stream.

Pool is dead! The mistake is keeping the US around instead of putting in somebody competitive. We would still all watch and it would be WAYYYYY more exciting with somebody who could actually WIN.

Why should they spend a single $ trying to rehabilitate and grow American pool? It makes no cents and it certainly doesn't make $$$$$$$
Jason

 

[nicksaint26]

Then the following year Shane got drilled by Ruslan Chinahov in a race to 30

True but they made Shane break from outside the box which was like giving a handicap if you ask me!

 

[PhilosopherKing]

Why should they spend a single $ trying to rehabilitate and grow American pool?
Jason

To make five.

 

[jasonlaus]

To make five.

That's like lighting money on fire. There's a reason for the saying - how to end up with a million dollars in pool, start with 2 million

 

[Nostroke]

That's like lighting money on fire. There's a reason for the saying - how to end up with a million dollars in pool, start with 2 million

Unfortunately heretofore this has been true. Every time i even hear of someone opening a NICE pool room, i just say WHY WHY WHY? Open a bagel shop, a Deli-Anything but a Pool Room.

I remember everyone cheering that poor bastard who opened that beautiful room in NC. Not sure how long it lasted but i don't think it was 2 years and very likely incurred big $$ losses.

When KIDS realize doing something real is cooler than fooling with Bits and Bytes, then it will be time to open a PR. Will that day ever come?-I think it will but it isn't close yet!

 

[jasonlaus]

Unfortunately heretofore this has been true. Every time i even hear of someone opening a NICE pool room, i just say WHY WHY WHY? Open a bagel shop, a Deli-Anything but a Pool Room.

I remember everyone cheering that poor bastard who opened that beautiful room in NC. Not sure how long it lasted but i don't think it was 2 years and very likely incurred big $$ losses.

When KIDS realize doing something real is cooler than fooling with Bits and Bytes, then it will be time to open a PR. Will that day ever come?-I think it will but it isn't close yet!

Good post!

Yep, really wanted to hit some balls in that place.

I'm not happy about any of this, it's just the sad truth.
Jason

 

[jay helfert]

I can back that up. The players are 100% responsible for their travel expenses to Johan's boot camps, most of which are outside the United States.

Which begs the question, why aren't the "boot camps" in the USA? That way only one person has to travel overseas. All the potential players live here and last I heard this was still Team USA!
From the replies above I see that one reason for having the players travel abroad is to play in a Euro Tour event and maybe one other competition against a Russian team. That's all well and good, but I'm thinking a visit to a sports psychologist might be more in order. If you look at our best players individual records against the best from Europe in events like the U.S. Open (and others) you will see that they can hold their own against them. For some reason they continue to falter in the maelstrom of the MC. I for one still believe we have players who can win. What they need is a different mindset going in and that requires a different type of coaching. They already know how to play safe and kick at balls. And they shoot just as straight. But for some reason they can't execute these shots in the MC. I'd guarantee you one thing. If I ever got to coach our guys, we would make it a helluva lot closer than it has been the last few years. More power to Johann if he can teach them how to be better players though.

 

[jay helfert]

Having attended several MCs, my opinion is that SVB is in an impossible position.

First, every year he has to watch his teammates commit rank amateur errors in their play. That’s gotta bring you down.

Second, as the best US player, as Captain America and all that, the abuse heaped on him by the Euros is unbelievable. And even worse, are the absurd, ridiculous, assine (though well intentioned) expectations thrown at him every time he approaches the table. “Go get em, Shane!” “Run em, Shane!” “Time to go to work, Shane!” Never mind that a European opponent has left him frozen to the back of a ball, or his teammate has gotten completely out of line and left him an impossible shot. It has to be back breaking.

In any case, until the rest of the US squad raises their game, we got no shot with or without him on board. Maybe SVB just needs a break.

Lou Figueroa

Once again Lou, although you make some good points, I can't totally agree with you on this. The pressure excuse just doesn't fly with a player like Shane who has won countless tournaments and matches while under considerable pressure. The reality is that Shane has simply played bad, missing many easy shots and making an equal number of mental errors during the MC competition. If you had been watching (as I was) you would know that. He has failed to perform on this stage, plain and simple. He has never needed to carry the whole team, only himself, and so far he has been unable to do just that.

There have been other great players who have found a way to perform under the pressure of the MC, so why should we be making excuses for someone who has not played anywhere close to his skill level. Let's call it the way we see it, okay. I know that when a guy who is one of the world's best fails to get out two or three racks in a row, missing easy shots and misplaying others, I will most assuredly let people know that they are witnessing a player melting down. I won't be making excuses and saying things like, "He could have made that shot if he was somewhere else." Shane chose to play in the MC and after all these years he should have adjusted to the vagaries of this competition. Last time I looked they were still playing 9-Ball, Shane's specialty!

No question Shane is a great pool player and a certain Hall of Famer one day, but his play in the MC has been abysmal. That's the reality for whatever reason you care to label it.

 

[jay helfert]

Blunder? How's that?

The USA pool scene for pros has been dead for years, plus most amateurs already know everything - just ask them.

Nobody watches pool in America period. They get extremely excited(like they cured cancer) when they get 3,000 views on a FREE stream.

Pool is dead! The mistake is keeping the US around instead of putting in somebody competitive. We would still all watch and it would be WAYYYYY more exciting with somebody who could actually WIN.

Why should they spend a single $ trying to rehabilitate and grow American pool? It makes no cents and it certainly doesn't make $$$$$$$
Jason

Jason, with all due respect, it's all about TV ratings. And as long as Europe vs. USA gets so many viewers worldwide on SkySports, Matchroom will continue to produce this event. Why shouldn't they? They have a winning formula with the MC.

IMO the people at Matchroom are by far the smartest promoters in the billiard world, so who am I to criticize them. I've worked at a lot of their events and they are always first class all the way. I will continue to support their efforts in any way I can, as I see the Matchroom events as being very beneficial to our sport and it's continuing popularity worldwide.

 

[BeiberLvr]

I for one still believe we have players who can win. What they need is a different mindset going in and that requires a different type of coaching. They already know how to play safe and kick at balls. And they shoot just as straight.

Have you ever watched the Mosconi Cup?