SVB's Mosconi Facebook post

[lorider]

No they wouldn’t. You really thing if it were say 10 times more money that the outcome would suddenly change?

Ok possibly if it were for millions and cornbread red rose from the grave to play for merica.....then sure the euros would be jarred lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Dang....forgot the sarcasm icon. I completely agree with you.

Just saying all I ever read on here is not enough money in the pot....too much expenditure for too little return yada yada yada .

Doubling the pot would not change the outcome one iota.

As for the ones always saying its a crap shoot or a coin flip. Well I guess the Europeans have been on a helluva lucky roll for the past 10 years..

I don't know the answer and have never claimed to but our players keep doing the same thing year after year and we lee getting the same results year after year.

Like I said in my previous post.....Bergsman opted to not try and qualify last year ....shane is opting out of what the coach requires this year. Some people claim to be all exited about Jeremy Jones being the co captain this year and is going to help the team. I dont see what he could do or Sa that would make a difference at all....nothing again Jeremy but these players of ours are lone wolves and elitists'.

Do you honestly think our elite players are going to listen to a coach and change their way of shooting during a 5 week boot camp? It aint happening even if they chose to go to boot camp.

 

[watchez]

I don't think the size of the payout is the issue here. If it was our guys would be kicking azz and taking 20 thousand home instead of settling for 10.

You missed my point completely.

Let me slow it down for you. The expectation for a US player is to now spend as much or more out of his own pocket then he can win. It would be like a guy that has a $100k a year salary but has to fly to work each week and stay in a hotel, all on his own expense. Would you take that job? Sure it’s great that these players get to play for their country but for what? To break even (hopefully) and if they lose to be ridiculed by people that don’t have a clue, just a keyboard or iPhone.

Beyond that, in any sport, as the owners made more money so did the players. Pool - which fails at a lot of things - doesn’t get that. The money in pool everywhere has stayed the same or gone down. Im not privy to Matchroom’s books but I would have to think from the eye test they are making a lot more money on the MC. If they want more of a commitment out of the players, then increase the pot. Or if Johan thinks it is important to form a bond in the Netherlands, then find a sponsor for his team so the players can afford to go.

 

[Ak147]

There goes the hope for US making 5-11 this year

 

[lorider]

You missed my point completely.

Let me slow it down for you. The expectation for a US player is to now spend as much or more out of his own pocket then he can win. It would be like a guy that has a $100k a year salary but has to fly to work each week and stay in a hotel, all on his own expense. Would you take that job? Sure it’s great that these players get to play for their country but for what? To break even (hopefully) and if they lose to be ridiculed by people that don’t have a clue, just a keyboard or iPhone.

Beyond that, in any sport, as the owners made more money so did the players. Pool - which fails at a lot of things - doesn’t get that. The money in pool everywhere has stayed the same or gone down. Im not privy to Matchroom’s books but I would have to think from the eye test they are making a lot more money on the MC. If they want more of a commitment out of the players, then increase the pot. Or if Johan thinks it is important to form a bond in the Netherlands, then find a sponsor for his team so the players can afford to go.

We dont know what his plans are as far as expenditures for this boot camp. He may be working on just what you suggest ..i dont know ...do you ? a lot of people on here are under the misconception that the players pay for everything out of pocket.

I happened to read on here that the cup itself pays for air travel and rooms for the players during mosconi cup so its not like they spent 10,000 to win at least 10,000 minimum. The players also recoup some of their cost for playing in the qualifying tournaments. if they don't cash then they probably should not be on the team anyway.


Look....i am not saying that players should spend 30,000 a year to get a shot at 10,000 for the mosconi and do agree it would be great for them to get a higher payout but the reason we lee losing goes beyond just the money.. Or lack of money available.


Now I am not putting words in shanes mouth but when I read his face book post it seems to me that he would rather be out doing what he does than go take lessons from an instructor for 5 weeks on how to play in order to win at mosconi. Not saying he could teach Shane anything .

 

[Meucciplayer]

I offered Nick a beer and he smiled at me like I was an idiot (can’t blame me for trying). It made me think twice about the beer I saw SVB holding.

This is probably due to the fact that the consumption of alcohol is considered to be illegal doping in most tournaments in Europe. He might have thought that you were trying to trick him and get him thrown out. I don't know the MC rules regarding this.

I don't fully understand this rule in Europe as alcohol tends to make me play worse. However, I recently talked to a way superior player than myself and he said that small quantities of alcohol were proven to have a "positive" effect on gameplay. Hmm. Don't know about that. Besides, beer can be a lot stronger than Bud Lite over here.

 

[marek]

I don't fully understand this rule in Europe as alcohol tends to make me play worse. However, I recently talked to a way superior player than myself and he said that small quantities of alcohol were proven to have a "positive" effect on gameplay. Hmm. Don't know about that. Besides, beer can be a lot stronger than Bud Lite over here.

I can confirm this. I rarely drink any alcohol at all, I just dont like the taste of it. 4-5 years ago I was at this 2day christmas tournament which was more of social event than serious tournament. At the end of day one I had a small money game with my friend who was reigning 9b national champion at that time yet I was was considered superior player to him. As I said it was more of a social event and two friends talked me into having a drink with them as a christmas celebration, so I had two shots of vodka in the span of 5 mins right before my friendly money game. I was giving up 4 games on the wire in the race to 8 in 9b winners break. We played two sets and I won both of them 8:5 in time span of 25 mins! In both sets I missed 1 ball and played 1 pushout (in both cases my opponent returned it), other than that I played it more or less like a speedpool, my mind was basically empty with a single thought - that my opponent wants to take my money therefore I wanted to kill him. My mind was free from all that BS I have to struggle with during tournament play, all those fears, doubts, distractions were not there. And my stroke mechanics were totally fluent. One day I would like to be able to play like that without the help of alcohol.....

 

[Mirza]

How many MC duels would have America won, when Shane played, if Shane won 80%-90% of his singles matches, which depend solely on him?

Maybe AtLarge could have this answer, I think it would clear a lot of discussion

 

[BeiberLvr]

How many MC duels would have America won, when Shane played, if Shane won 80%-90% of his singles matches, which depend solely on him?

Maybe AtLarge could have this answer, I think it would clear a lot of discussion

It's a trickle down effect.

All of the pressure is on Shane. He feels it, and he's human; so he'll succumb to the pressure more often than not. This causes him to not play his best. Which in turn, puts more pressure on the rest of the team.

 

[watchez]

We dont know what his plans are as far as expenditures for this boot camp. He may be working on just what you suggest ..i dont know ...do you ? a lot of people on here are under the misconception that the players pay for everything out of pocket.

I happened to read on here that the cup itself pays for air travel and rooms for the players during mosconi cup so its not like they spent 10,000 to win at least 10,000 minimum. The players also recoup some of their cost for playing in the qualifying tournaments. if they don't cash then they probably should not be on the team anyway.


Look....i am not saying that players should spend 30,000 a year to get a shot at 10,000 for the mosconi and do agree it would be great for them to get a higher payout but the reason we lee losing goes beyond just the money.. Or lack of money available.


Now I am not putting words in shanes mouth but when I read his face book post it seems to me that he would rather be out doing what he does than go take lessons from an instructor for 5 weeks on how to play in order to win at mosconi. Not saying he could teach Shane anything .

You asked if I know - well I can tell you I know. I’m good enough friends with some of the players involved. In all, I believe 16 players were invited. That seems good cause the lower level players can also elevate their game for the future. But again, from what I was told from multiple sources, all the cost is on the players.

And I never said the reason for losing was lack of money or the prize pool. But the current “solution” by the coach is one that has a basis of funding and lack of a bigger prize pool will stop some players from being involved due to their own personal financial commitment they would have to make to participate. The only way to resolve that is - get a sponsor(s), offer a bigger prize pool so the ROI is there for the players, or find pool players that are independently wealthy. To me, getting a sponsor to put up say $50k to cover travel costs is tough , the independent wealthy players simply don’t play good enough so the only solution is for Matchroom to increase the prize pool.

 

[AtLarge]

How many MC duels would have America won, when Shane played, if Shane won 80%-90% of his singles matches, which depend solely on him?

Maybe AtLarge could have this answer, I think it would clear a lot of discussion

That question has no real answer; it depends on too many other things, too many assumptions. Which matches should we assume he won instead of losing? How many additional singles matches would he have played if he had been doing much better (some years he played in only 1 or 2 instead of 3)? What happened in the match(es) that might have been added to the length of the event? What effect would more SVB wins in singles have had on his teammates and on the European team? What effect would it have had on his own play in other matches? And so on.

His singles record is 11 wins out of 27 matches (41% success). So if he had won 80% of the 27 matches, he would have won about 10 or 11 more matches (a record of 21-6 or 22-5 instead of 11-16). He has played 11 events and never gone undefeated in singles, so, as one scenario, we could give him one more win in singles in each of the 11 years. Would that have made any difference in which team won the events? Team USA won 1 of those 11 events. In the 10 losing events, Team USA won the following number of matches -- 8, 5, 8, 7, 9, 2, 5, 7, 3, 4. Would 1 more singles win by SVB in each of those years have converted any of those losses into wins? We have no way to know.

 

[AtLarge]

How many MC duels would have America won, when Shane played, if Shane won 80%-90% of his singles matches, which depend solely on him?

Maybe AtLarge could have this answer, I think it would clear a lot of discussion

No one who has played as many Cups as SVB (11) has won 80%-90% of his singles matches:

• Archer (17 Cups) -- 57% (17 of 30)
  Strickland (14) -- 54% (14 of 26)
  Van Boening (11) -- 41% (11 of 27)
  Souquet (17) -- 62% (21 of 34).....best with 11 or more Cup appearances
  Immonen (15) -- 48% (16 of 33)
  Feijen (12) -- 60% (12 of 20)
  Davis (11) -- 52% (14 of 27)

Adding those players with 8-10 Cups:

• Morris (10) -- 56% (10 of 18)
  Deuel (9) -- 54% (7 of 13)
  Appleton (8) -- 71% (10 of 14).....best with 8 or more appearances
  Ortmann (8) -- 52% (11 of 21)
  Van Den Berg (8) -- 40% (6 of 15)

Several players are undefeated in singles, but none with more than 2 Cup appearances.

 

[greyghost]

We dont know what his plans are as far as expenditures for this boot camp. He may be working on just what you suggest ..i dont know ...do you ? a lot of people on here are under the misconception that the players pay for everything out of pocket.

I happened to read on here that the cup itself pays for air travel and rooms for the players during mosconi cup so its not like they spent 10,000 to win at least 10,000 minimum. The players also recoup some of their cost for playing in the qualifying tournaments. if they don't cash then they probably should not be on the team anyway.


Look....i am not saying that players should spend 30,000 a year to get a shot at 10,000 for the mosconi and do agree it would be great for them to get a higher payout but the reason we lee losing goes beyond just the money.. Or lack of money available.


Now I am not putting words in shanes mouth but when I read his face book post it seems to me that he would rather be out doing what he does than go take lessons from an instructor for 5 weeks on how to play in order to win at mosconi. Not saying he could teach Shane anything .

I doubt seriously the camps are about getting these players lessons. They are not shaq trying to master a free throw. Our players are not of weaker skill they are of diff mindset generally speaking. If I were the pappy the whole length would be devoted to development of team and making the players like a family

I work those platforms offshore, I’m a boots on ground process Controlls engineering, troubleshooting,design and repair mercenary.

I got to get along with the boys that make up the production crews. They got to mesh with each other.

Put one guy one place he ain’t worth a phuck......puts everyone off and jars the hitch up.....effects attitudes and work effort and output including safety.

That guy may not even be Doing anything wrong necessarily.

So they toss the fella and he finds a more suitable house and the crew phones a friend of a friend who meshes and can do to come and fill the spot some egg head manager had previously filled from his desk back on the dirt.

Got to trust guys....ladies if they are there too. Young or men old as dirt waiting to die out there. ...cuz retirement will kill em anyways. So he stick to his rotation of land family and his Viking brothers and sparser our sisters on the water. Two homes two lives two diff physically opposite settings.

Both the Vikings and our families on land require 2 things only to work

You got to trust one another up to life or death.....and you got to believe in each other’s ability to make it happen.

The operators usually love to see me because I’m saving the day....some of the foreman’s and consultants don’t care for me because I’m an expensive gun for hire. Generallly those type are mere yes men anyways...they manage but don’t know the trades.

I know two pool players that are thicker than the fattest of thieves. They have traveled together lived together practiced together through thick and thin being journeyman of the game.....chip Compton and Joey grey....at times they put more miles on blacktop than anyone but the wind itself and Scotty Townsend’s ghost.

I don’t think chip nor Joey would have gotten as far as they have without one another.

My dad operates today deepwater, were the last two of the clan left on the big blue. I didn’t so much like the being out there when I first started, the work always intrigued me it’s like 14.1 or one pocket or chess. Money’s GREAT....especially if you got the Toni. And you know....

But money and work don’t keep you sharp for the danger......

Sure I’m out there to make money....I pocket balls when I play too.....but that ain’t the reason I’m there.

I’m out there because it’s dangerous, few can fix the problems....those guys who work out there don’t know how dangerous some situations are. So I run around righting old equipment and keeping everyone safe, so we all get home.

Then comes the paper.

If it was about the money I’d be like many I see out there with a lower level of my job.....they in a rush to finish to get paid and go home.

I ain’t in no rush. The work is meticulous, complicated and laborious at times. So I make sure I get it right so everyone and everything is also right end of day. I’m more concerned about the people then the work then gettin my just rewards.

No one sponsors my tools....but a solid stick of that fancy chalk for work would be tite lol.



Team building exercises would even be good for leagues. One thing about when I lived in Tulsa and okc....they were not only a team but an army. It was impressive to see the group pushing the group forward like it did.

A long ramble FWIW
-greyghost







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[rexus31]

You asked if I know - well I can tell you I know. I’m good enough friends with some of the players involved. In all, I believe 16 players were invited. That seems good cause the lower level players can also elevate their game for the future. But again, from what I was told from multiple sources, all the cost is on the players.

And I never said the reason for losing was lack of money or the prize pool. But the current “solution” by the coach is one that has a basis of funding and lack of a bigger prize pool will stop some players from being involved due to their own personal financial commitment they would have to make to participate. The only way to resolve that is - get a sponsor(s), offer a bigger prize pool so the ROI is there for the players, or find pool players that are independently wealthy. To me, getting a sponsor to put up say $50k to cover travel costs is tough , the independent wealthy players simply don’t play good enough so the only solution is for Matchroom to increase the prize pool.

I can back that up. The players are 100% responsible for their travel expenses to Johan's boot camps, most of which are outside the United States.

 

[Mirza]

No one who has played as many Cups as SVB (11) has won 80%-90% of his singles matches:

• Archer (17 Cups) -- 57% (17 of 30)
  Strickland (14) -- 54% (14 of 26)
  Van Boening (11) -- 41% (11 of 27)
  Souquet (17) -- 62% (21 of 34).....best with 11 or more Cup appearances
  Immonen (15) -- 48% (16 of 33)
  Feijen (12) -- 60% (12 of 20)
  Davis (11) -- 52% (14 of 27)

Adding those players with 8-10 Cups:

• Morris (10) -- 56% (10 of 18)
  Deuel (9) -- 54% (7 of 13)
  Appleton (8) -- 71% (10 of 14).....best with 8 or more appearances
  Ortmann (8) -- 52% (11 of 21)
  Van Den Berg (8) -- 40% (6 of 15)

Several players are undefeated in singles, but none with more than 2 Cup appearances.

Thank you for the info!

So out of all players that played 8 or more MC only Nick Van den Berg has 0.7% worse record then Shane and he also has 3 less appearances, and there are 12 players in consideration, that says a lot

Name Won Played Win %
Appleton 10 14 71,4%
Souquet 21 34 61,8%
Feijen 12 20 60,0%
Archer 17 30 56,7%
Morris 10 18 55,6%
Strickland 14 26 53,8%
Deuel 7 13 53,8%
Ortmann 11 21 52,4%
Davis 14 27 51,9%
Immonen 16 33 48,5%
Van Boening 11 27 40,7%
Van Den Berg 6 15 40,0%

 

[marek]

Our players are not of weaker skill

I dont like to be a messenger of bad news to you but they definitely are. Apart from SVB current top US players have MUCH worse fundamentals, worse decision making process and weaker mental game given MC playing conditions/format/vocal audience/international tournament experience than top Europeans. If brought out of their comfort zone (and MC does that to anybody) players feel incredible pressure and those with more weaknesses crumble sooner. Sad reality of MC is that SVB is the only US player atm who has the tools to be ultra competitive in MC format (by that I mean 60+% winning ratio), unfortunately while SVB is amazing player whom I really admire he struggles big time in team competition, he is pure lone wolf. Question is if team spirit can be taught at his age, you have to have that willingness to virtually die for your teammates that most Europeans get via team competitions throughout their whole careers.

 

[MatchroomPool]

I can back that up. The players are 100% responsible for their travel expenses to Johan's boot camps, most of which are outside the United States.

That is completely not true. Why would you put put false information with such conviction? Details are being worked out currently.

 

[MattPoland]

I had a feeling some people were pretending to know more than they actually do just for attention.


Respectfully, Matt
(I don’t take myself too seriously. I hope you can return the favor.)

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

That is completely not true. Why would you put put false information with such conviction? Details are being worked out currently.

Why do you, insist on promoting training for the US players outside of our country? Equal and fair requirements are needed. If you want the potential US prospects to travel to Europe for a training session, is the Europe potential team required to go to the US? No they are not. Your ignorance for where the problem lies is the issue.

European players are now leading the way with experience and skills due to the hugely successful EuroTour. Where is the US equivalent? Stop this nonsense of paying for potential US players to go to Europe. Use that money to promote and host better quality tournaments in the US. Get engaged with the community, not your current ‘I’m above you all’ stance.

 

[jsp]

Why do you, insist on promoting training for the US players outside of our country?

Maybe because we need it.

If you want the potential US prospects to travel to Europe for a training session, is the Europe potential team required to go to the US? No they are not.

Maybe because they don't need it.

European players are now leading the way with experience and skills due to the hugely successful EuroTour. Where is the US equivalent?

Exactly whose problem is this?

Stop this nonsense of paying for potential US players to go to Europe. Use that money to promote and host better quality tournaments in the US.

Seriously? You missed the news about the US Open?

 

[jasonlaus]

Why do you, insist on promoting training for the US players outside of our country? Equal and fair requirements are needed. If you want the potential US prospects to travel to Europe for a training session, is the Europe potential team required to go to the US? No they are not. Your ignorance for where the problem lies is the issue.

European players are now leading the way with experience and skills due to the hugely successful EuroTour. Where is the US equivalent? Stop this nonsense of paying for potential US players to go to Europe. Use that money to promote and host better quality tournaments in the US. Get engaged with the community, not your current ‘I’m above you all’ stance.

What kind of shoes do you wear? They must be fantastic since you have to stand all day, no way you can sit down with balls that size!

With all these bigmouths running around, if I ran Matchroom the USA would be out immediately and the Pinoys would be in, end of story.

America is meaningless except for Shane in the world of pool anyway and the MC has his number.
Jason